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Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: fatty fat fat on July 19, 2007, 10:26:20 AM

Title: consensus #3
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 19, 2007, 10:26:20 AM
http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071907aac.html

much better than a year ago when we were consensus #6.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: 1992 on July 19, 2007, 10:33:51 AM
Hope those blowhards aren't as "off" as they normally are.

MUST...DESTROY... :ku:
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: FBWillie on July 19, 2007, 10:37:25 AM
I havnen't been paying attention to south teams we don't play this year.  What's so &@#%ing great about TAMU and who gave them a 1st place vote?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Pett on July 19, 2007, 10:59:06 AM
Isn't that the type of progress we're looking for out of Prince??? I mean #6-#3 is a big jump in just one year, but you have to add in how horrible ISU & CU is. ku is obviously not good, but when you talk about ISU & CU as of right now you mention them with the bottom three teams in the Big XII. And which their records & talent level on their teams last year were a big drop off from 2005.

With ku basically going knowhere with Mangino in his 6th year as head coach and basically seeing no improvement coming from ISU & CU, this is probably one the biggest down years in the Big XII North, maybe even worse than 2004 & 2005.

Most of us would've been very happy if you told us last summer that we would jump 3 spots in the pre-season north poll in Prince's first year, but with the last two games last year vs. ku & Rutgers, that were total meltdowns, we dont really know what to think now.

But as of right now with a three spot jump in the pre-season north rankings from last summer, that's the type of progress that you want to see out of Prince, no matter the circumstances.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: mjrod on July 19, 2007, 11:03:36 AM
I think the media see's us a the best of the bottom four rather than the bottom of the Top 3.    The only two names that have been put in the North Champ slot is Missouri and Nebraska.

Prince surprised a lot of people last year.   Will he surprise the pollsters this year and put KSU into the Big 12 Championship.  If that happens, I would expect a lot of the Prince haters to go into hiding.

Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Pett on July 19, 2007, 11:10:00 AM
If that happens, I would expect a lot of the Prince haters to go into hiding.

IMO, to go suicidal. You know that there were a ton of cat fans that didn't want to see Prince succeed from the minute that he was hired.....

&@#% em'..... :chainsaw:
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: KSU4ME on July 19, 2007, 11:40:46 AM
http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071907aac.html

much better than a year ago when we were consensus #6.

You must be crazy.  This is horrible news.

Last year we finished #2 in the North, so they're predicting us to do worse this year than we did last year.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: kstate16 on July 19, 2007, 11:48:56 AM
Why does missouri always get so much love in the offseason?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: KSU4ME on July 19, 2007, 11:55:08 AM
Because they should be good.

That university is friggin cursed.  They have no excuse for their decades of suckin.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 19, 2007, 12:05:28 PM
http://www.big12sports.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/071907aac.html

much better than a year ago when we were consensus #6.

You must be crazy.  This is horrible news.

Last year we finished #2 in the North, so they're predicting us to do worse this year than we did last year.

Maybe. I'm hoping for a 5-3 finish that leaves us in sole 2nd place.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: bigdeal on July 19, 2007, 12:14:13 PM
MU always gets more love in the offseason because Pinkel can recruit.  They continue to bring in talent that should have them winning the north.  Fortunately, he can't coach.  Now, that didn't stop Mack Brown from winning it all when he finally just had too much talent for him to squelch (including the uber-talented Vince Young).  That talent just carried him to the title.  Everyone keeps thinking that Pinkel will accumulate enough talent that eventually they'll win the north despite his coaching ability. 
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 19, 2007, 12:16:53 PM
MU always gets more love in the offseason because Pinkel can recruit.  They continue to bring in talent that should have them winning the north.  Fortunately, he can't coach.  Now, that didn't stop Mack Brown from winning it all when he finally just had too much talent for him to squelch (including the uber-talented Vince Young).  That talent just carried him to the title.  Everyone keeps thinking that Pinkel will accumulate enough talent that eventually they'll win the north despite his coaching ability. 

Mack Brown out-coached Snyder in 02 and 03.

Mack Brown took a 4-7 Texas team in 1997 and turned them into a 9-3 cotton bowl champs in his 1st year.
You suck.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Saulbadguy on July 19, 2007, 12:18:48 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: KSU4ME on July 19, 2007, 12:20:07 PM
MU always gets more love in the offseason because Pinkel can recruit.  They continue to bring in talent that should have them winning the north.  Fortunately, he can't coach.  Now, that didn't stop Mack Brown from winning it all when he finally just had too much talent for him to squelch (including the uber-talented Vince Young).  That talent just carried him to the title.  Everyone keeps thinking that Pinkel will accumulate enough talent that eventually they'll win the north despite his coaching ability. 

That's just bunk.  Look at who has been drafted from MU.  Pinkel hasn't been bringing in the talent, he's been bringing in over rated talent.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Leyton on July 19, 2007, 12:23:57 PM
If that happens, I would expect a lot of the Prince haters to go into hiding.

IMO, to go suicidal. You know that there were a ton of cat fans that didn't want to see Prince succeed from the minute that he was hired.....

&*$@! em'..... :chainsaw:

WTF are you talking about?  Why wouldn't KSU fans want Prince to be a success?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 12:24:33 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: steve dave on July 19, 2007, 12:27:26 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.

QFT Bill Callahan is a great recruiter but can't coach his way out of a wet paper bag.  That was enough to get them to the Cotten Bowl.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Bullfn33 on July 19, 2007, 01:08:29 PM
If that happens, I would expect a lot of the Prince haters to go into hiding.

IMO, to go suicidal. You know that there were a ton of cat fans that didn't want to see Prince succeed from the minute that he was hired.....

&*$@! em'..... :chainsaw:

WTF are you talking about?  Why wouldn't KSU fans want Prince to be a success?

Not many, but you know there are some racist &@#%sticks out there that would love nothing more than for him to fall on his face and get fired.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: KSU4ME on July 19, 2007, 01:12:25 PM
Not many, but you know there are some racist &*$@!sticks out there that would love nothing more than for him to fall on his face and get fired.

Are you calling J-Mart a racist?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: mjrod on July 19, 2007, 02:59:24 PM
If that happens, I would expect a lot of the Prince haters to go into hiding.

IMO, to go suicidal. You know that there were a ton of cat fans that didn't want to see Prince succeed from the minute that he was hired.....

&*$@! em'..... :chainsaw:

WTF are you talking about?  Why wouldn't KSU fans want Prince to be a success?

Every KSU fan wants Prince to succeed.

Many of them don't think he will, or will give him the chance.  Hell, we have people on here who hate him because their cute question was cutoff from an archive radio broadcast.

Let's face it.   There is very little love of Prince from a large contingent of fans.  If he succeeds, they'll be the first on the bandwagon saying "I knew he was good!", but if he doesn't do as well, they'll be the first to say "See!  I told you so!"

I'll reserve judgment for the first three years to see what happens.    From my standpoint, he improved a team in his first year.  That says he's a good coach.   He'll need the next few years to build a successful program.   That will tell us if he's the right coach for KSU in the long run.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: vanro031 on July 19, 2007, 03:05:44 PM
I agree that you need to give Princie at least 3 years before you give him a thumbs up or down. The Booby Scoop of OU is a rare case of a coach during so well in a short period of time.
This way I have at least 3 more years to make Prince jokes!!!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: FBWillie on July 19, 2007, 03:11:10 PM
Don't worry; Even if we all hate him; it would take KSU a couple years to fire him.  Not everyone is like Nebraska where they fire a coach because the fan base has a feeling that their 10-2 team is heading in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: vanro031 on July 19, 2007, 03:13:55 PM
You want Frank back because the little rat could beat him....  :frown:
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: steve dave on July 19, 2007, 03:17:21 PM
You want Frank back because the little rat could beat him....  :frown:

Snyder beat Callahan as well
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: kougar24 on July 19, 2007, 03:19:17 PM
You want Frank back because the little rat could beat him....  :frown:

Snyder beat destroyed Callahan as well

Fixed.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 03:21:38 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.

my grandma could recruit to texas.  however mack brown was a good recruiter while he was at unc too.  he still cant coach.  neither can rick barnes for that matter.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 03:23:55 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.

my grandma could recruit to texas.  however mack brown was a good recruiter while he was at unc too.  he still cant coach.  neither can rick barnes for that matter.

Recruiting to Texas is easy because Mack Brown made it easy.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: vanro031 on July 19, 2007, 03:24:50 PM
You want Frank back because the little rat could beat him....  :frown:

Callahan beat destroyed Prince as well

Fixed.
Fixed.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 03:26:42 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.

my grandma could recruit to texas.  however mack brown was a good recruiter while he was at unc too.  he still cant coach.  neither can rick barnes for that matter.

Recruiting to Texas is easy because Mack Brown made it easy.

partially true.  but it was pretty easy before he was there too.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 03:27:44 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.

my grandma could recruit to texas.  however mack brown was a good recruiter while he was at unc too.  he still cant coach.  neither can rick barnes for that matter.

Recruiting to Texas is easy because Mack Brown made it easy.

partially true.  but it was pretty easy before he was there too.

Well, then he's an awesome coach.  Didn't he win their first NC in 30+(?) years?

You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: mjrod on July 19, 2007, 03:30:43 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.

my grandma could recruit to texas.  however mack brown was a good recruiter while he was at unc too.  he still cant coach.  neither can rick barnes for that matter.

Recruiting to Texas is easy because Mack Brown made it easy.

partially true.  but it was pretty easy before he was there too.

Well, then he's an awesome coach.  Didn't he win their first NC in 30+(?) years?

You can't have it both ways.

Vince Young did. 
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 03:32:49 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.

my grandma could recruit to texas.  however mack brown was a good recruiter while he was at unc too.  he still cant coach.  neither can rick barnes for that matter.

Recruiting to Texas is easy because Mack Brown made it easy.

partially true.  but it was pretty easy before he was there too.

Well, then he's an awesome coach.  Didn't he win their first NC in 30+(?) years?

You can't have it both ways.

Vince Young did. 

Would Vince Young commit to a perennial 4-7/5-6/6-5 Jon Mackovic program?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: mjrod on July 19, 2007, 03:36:01 PM
Does the hypothetical game mean you have a valid point or something?   It doesn't and it would all be speculation.   No one is questioning Mack Brown's ability to recruit, but his coaching does seem to have issues.

BTW:  Worked for Ricky Williams.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 03:42:15 PM
People who claim Mack Brown is anything but a great coach = Powertard

Also, LOL @ people who say "all he does is recruit" like it's no big deal or something.

my grandma could recruit to texas.  however mack brown was a good recruiter while he was at unc too.  he still cant coach.  neither can rick barnes for that matter.

Recruiting to Texas is easy because Mack Brown made it easy.

partially true.  but it was pretty easy before he was there too.

Well, then he's an awesome coach.  Didn't he win their first NC in 30+(?) years?

You can't have it both ways.

how does that make him an awesome coach?  he can recruit.  hes very good at part of his job but sucks hard at the other part.  and for what its worth vince young won that title the only thing mack brown had to do with it was recruiting him.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 03:51:54 PM
how does that make him an awesome coach?  he can recruit.  hes very good at part of his job but sucks hard at the other part.  and for what its worth vince young won that title the only thing mack brown had to do with it was recruiting him.

Winning National Titles and 80% of your games make you an awesome coach, no matter how you do it.  Believe it or not, recruiting is a fairly important part of coaching.

p.s.

Since 1950 at Texas:

Code: [Select]
Coach Yrs Record W%

Mack Brown 9 93-22 .809
Darrell Royal 20 167-47-5 .774
Fred Akers 10 86-31-2 .731
John Mackovic 6 41-28-2 .592
Edwin Booth Price 6 33-27-1 .549
David McWilliams    31-26  .544

If you want an example of a guy that could recruit and not coach, look no further than Ron Zook.  Mack Brown is a horrible example.

Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: catzacker on July 19, 2007, 03:56:08 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU.  
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: vanro031 on July 19, 2007, 04:00:04 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

John was a great recruiter but I think he has lost his touch or just may have been the case where he was brought in to be the final closer.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Iceberg on July 19, 2007, 04:14:31 PM
This shouldn't come by a surprise. Everyone has had us at three. I was surprised to see that Missouri is number 1. I expected them to pick Nebraska. What is interesting is that by doing the math that all the number 1 and 2 votes when to Missouri and Nebraska.

We have 16 3rd place votes and 8 fourth place votes, and have as much as a nod a 3rd as Missouri does 1st.

ku is barely 4th. lol
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:14:48 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach.  id love to have mack brown at kstate right now but hes not a good game coach.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: catzacker on July 19, 2007, 04:20:54 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach.  id love to have mack brown at kstate right now but hes not a good game coach.

Describe "good game coach" and give examples.  He got talented players and put them in a position to win.  What more is a coach supposed to do? 
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 04:24:13 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach. 

I don't think you should ever separate the two when comparing college coaches.  It's a pretty worthless discussion, even for message boards.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 04:25:18 PM
BTW, I'd take Mack Brown over Bill Snyder (post 2000) to be my gameday coach.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:25:31 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach.  id love to have mack brown at kstate right now but hes not a good game coach.

Describe "good game coach" and give examples.  He got talented players and put them in a position to win.  What more is a coach supposed to do? 

im way to lazy to do this so just look at the kstate-texas game last year as a pretty good example.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:29:11 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach. 

I don't think you should ever separate the two when comparing college coaches.  It's a pretty worthless discussion, even for message boards.

its not worthless on gameday.  for what its worth i dont think pete carroll is a good coach either.  your right about recruiting being the most important part of college football but in my opinion coaching is not the same as recruiting.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: kougar24 on July 19, 2007, 04:30:34 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach.  id love to have mack brown at kstate right now but hes not a good game coach.

Describe "good game coach" and give examples.  He got talented players and put them in a position to win.  What more is a coach supposed to do? 

im way to lazy to do this so just look at the kstate-texas game last year as a pretty good example.

What about UT's gameplan was bad? They put up 42 points. No one could have predicted that the Freeman-Figurs combo would torch them so bad. It was just talent vs. a sub-par UT secondary (for UT).
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 04:32:32 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach. 

I don't think you should ever separate the two when comparing college coaches.  It's a pretty worthless discussion, even for message boards.

its not worthless on gameday.  for what its worth i dont think pete carroll is a good coach either.  your right about recruiting being the most important part of college football but in my opinion coaching is not the same as recruiting.

Um, yeah it is.  They're completely intertwined.

I can't believe I'm arguing with someone who honestly believes 2 of the last 3 NC coaches are bad coaches.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: catzacker on July 19, 2007, 04:35:45 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach.  id love to have mack brown at kstate right now but hes not a good game coach.

Describe "good game coach" and give examples.  He got talented players and put them in a position to win.  What more is a coach supposed to do? 

im way to lazy to do this so just look at the kstate-texas game last year as a pretty good example.

You can't be serious.  It was an upset, not an indicator of each's ability to coach.   So Bob Pruett > Bill Snyder?  The UT game should never be used as an example of anything except what an upset in college football looks like.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:36:12 PM
What's wrong with being such an incredible recruiter that you win a national title?  John Blake, who by all accounts (except NU fans after he left) is an outstanding recruiter, but couldn't accomplish anything at OU. 

there is nothing wrong with being an incredible recruiter and a crappy coach. 

I don't think you should ever separate the two when comparing college coaches.  It's a pretty worthless discussion, even for message boards.

its not worthless on gameday.  for what its worth i dont think pete carroll is a good coach either.  your right about recruiting being the most important part of college football but in my opinion coaching is not the same as recruiting.

Um, yeah it is.  They're completely intertwined.

I can't believe I'm arguing with someone who honestly believes 2 of the last 3 NC coaches are bad coaches.

look at pete carrolls record in the nfl.  why do you think bob stoops kicks mack browns ass most every year?  they can recruit but they suck at the x's and o's.  like you said it doesnt take good coaching to be a successful coach in college football.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Saulbadguy on July 19, 2007, 04:39:22 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 04:41:30 PM
look at pete carrolls record in the nfl.  why do you think bob stoops kicks mack browns ass most every year?  they can recruit but they suck at the x's and o's.  like you said it doesnt take good coaching to be a successful coach in college football.

Mack is 3-5 against Stoops (excellent recruiter, BTW).  Bill Snyder is 1-5.

If good coaching isn't important, why are you worried about who's the better "gameday coach"?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: kougar24 on July 19, 2007, 04:41:52 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 


Well said.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Saulbadguy on July 19, 2007, 04:43:51 PM
I'd also like to add the only way fans can evaluate "talent" is by looking at STARS, offer lists, and video clips of .005% of a players career. 
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:45:36 PM
look at pete carrolls record in the nfl.  why do you think bob stoops kicks mack browns ass most every year?  they can recruit but they suck at the x's and o's.  like you said it doesnt take good coaching to be a successful coach in college football.

Mack is 3-5 against Stoops (excellent recruiter, BTW).  Bill Snyder is 1-5.

If good coaching isn't important, why are you worried about who's the better "gameday coach"?

it is important for that game.  which is why mack brown needed a guy like vince young to win the big one.

stoops is an excellent recruiter and coach.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:47:03 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 


Well said.

not real sure where this came from but stars do matter which completely supports my argument.  and the reason texas wont win the national championship every year is because mack brown sucks as a coach.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 04:48:09 PM
look at pete carrolls record in the nfl.  why do you think bob stoops kicks mack browns ass most every year?  they can recruit but they suck at the x's and o's.  like you said it doesnt take good coaching to be a successful coach in college football.

Mack is 3-5 against Stoops (excellent recruiter, BTW).  Bill Snyder is 1-5.

If good coaching isn't important, why are you worried about who's the better "gameday coach"?

it is important for that game.  which is why mack brown needed a guy like vince young to win the big one.

stoops is an excellent recruiter and coach with a lower winning percentage than Mack Brown.



FYP
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: kougar24 on July 19, 2007, 04:48:15 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 


Well said.

not real sure where this came from but stars do matter which completely supports my argument.  and the reason texas wont win the national championship every year is because mack brown sucks as a coach.

So why doesn't Stoops (who you said is an excellent recruiter and coach) win the big one every single year?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Saulbadguy on July 19, 2007, 04:49:24 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 


Well said.

not real sure where this came from but stars do matter which completely supports my argument.  and the reason texas wont win the national championship every year is because mack brown sucks as a coach.
So, every coach who doesn't win the national championship every year sucks?

Gotcha.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:49:42 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 


Well said.

not real sure where this came from but stars do matter which completely supports my argument.  and the reason texas wont win the national championship every year is because mack brown sucks as a coach.

So why doesn't Stoops (who you said is an excellent recruiter and coach) win the big one every single year?

because hes not at texas.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: kougar24 on July 19, 2007, 04:50:15 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 


Well said.

not real sure where this came from but stars do matter which completely supports my argument.  and the reason texas wont win the national championship every year is because mack brown sucks as a coach.

So why doesn't Stoops (who you said is an excellent recruiter and coach) win the big one every single year?

because hes not at texas.

Wow.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 04:50:22 PM
Would Stoops have won a NC without Josh Heupel?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Saulbadguy on July 19, 2007, 04:51:34 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 


Well said.

not real sure where this came from but stars do matter which completely supports my argument.  and the reason texas wont win the national championship every year is because mack brown sucks as a coach.

So why doesn't Stoops (who you said is an excellent recruiter and coach) win the big one every single year?

because hes not at texas.
Yeah.  I'm pretty sure this argument is over.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:51:54 PM
Would Stoops have won a NC without Josh Heupel?

i dont know.  but josh heupel is no vince young.  with that team it was really more of the system than the player which is why stoops is a great coach.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Saulbadguy on July 19, 2007, 04:52:13 PM
If Urban Meyer doesn't win the NC every year, he will be a crappy coach too.  After all, he is at Florida.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:53:03 PM
You can't just look at the commitment list from Texas and decide since a team has a ton of 5 stars, they should win the national championship every year.  Usually the same people who chirp about how "STAR'S DON'T MATTER/DARREN SPROLES/TERENCE NEWMAN/OMG" are the first to line up and say Mack Brown sucks because he can't win the NC every year with a bunch of 5 stars (hypocritical). 


Well said.

not real sure where this came from but stars do matter which completely supports my argument.  and the reason texas wont win the national championship every year is because mack brown sucks as a coach.

So why doesn't Stoops (who you said is an excellent recruiter and coach) win the big one every single year?

because hes not at texas.
Yeah.  I'm pretty sure this argument is over.

im not saying stoops would win it every year at texas.  there are plenty of other good coaches or at least good recruiters out there.  i responded to a stupid question with a stupid answer.  nobody wins the big one every year.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:54:16 PM
If Urban Meyer doesn't win the NC every year, he will be a crappy coach too.  After all, he is at Florida.

thank you for making my point for me.  he is a good coach as well.  florida is going to be back to the days of spurrier with him there.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 19, 2007, 04:56:13 PM
Would Stoops have won a NC without Josh Heupel?

i dont know.  but josh heupel is no vince young.  with that team it was really more of the system than the player which is why stoops is a great coach.

He couldn't win a NC with a Heisman winner at QB and a Heisman finalist at running back.  WTF?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 04:57:12 PM
Would Stoops have won a NC without Josh Heupel?

i dont know.  but josh heupel is no vince young.  with that team it was really more of the system than the player which is why stoops is a great coach.

He couldn't win a NC with a Heisman winner at QB and a Heisman finalist at running back.  WTF?

so now because he had one bad game hes a crappy coach?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: kougar24 on July 19, 2007, 05:00:04 PM
the reason texas wont win the national championship every year is because mack brown sucks as a coach.

i responded to a stupid question with a stupid answer.  nobody wins the big one every year.

Now I can see how you conclude Mack Brown sucks as a coach.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: swish1 on July 19, 2007, 05:01:53 PM


im not saying stoops would win it every year at texas.  there are plenty of other good coaches or at least good recruiters out there.  i responded to a stupid question with a stupid answer.  nobody wins the big one every year.

way to completely leave out the first part of that quote so that you can try and make your point. 

nobody is going to win it all every year but consistently falling short of expectations except for one year is not something a good coach should do.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 19, 2007, 05:11:35 PM
FYI: Before 2000 Texas had 4 seasons of 11 wins.

Before 2000 Texas hadn't finished in the top 10 since....1983.

Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: catzacker on July 19, 2007, 07:11:51 PM
If Urban Meyer doesn't win the NC every year, he will be a crappy coach too.  After all, he is at Florida.

thank you for making my point for me.  he is a good coach as well.  florida is going to be back to the days of spurrier with him there.

No, he's not a good coach, it's just that he's in Florida, right?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: ksuno1stunner on July 19, 2007, 09:18:44 PM
I missed a lot of this discussion, but you can't really say "Texas sucks because they usually don't do much with 5 star talent" because really, a lot of other teams get that type of talent too.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: JTKSU on July 19, 2007, 09:58:31 PM
The knock on Mack Brown WAS always, he can recruit, but he can't beat Oklahoma, and he hasn't won a championship.  Well, he has now proven he can (and has) done both, so I'd say it's fair to put him in the "he can coach AND recruit" group now.  Callahan, however, will remain in the "he can recruit, but he can't coach his way out of a paper bag" group until furthur notice.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: yosh on July 19, 2007, 10:53:40 PM
When UT hired Mack Brown away from UNC, everybody  knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that UT was going to be a top 10 team.  Mack Brown didn't start to "suck" until he went to Texas and UT only became the top team in the conference by a small margin, rather than a huge margin.  People's expectations of UT and how easy it is there are silly.  If Brown wanted to come to K-State, I'd help pack Prince's bags.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: ECN on July 19, 2007, 10:59:25 PM
is it pronounced yosh...like josh? or osh kosh
or yosh, like yo-shhhh,YOSHima, YOshi?


pissclams PM'd me to ask you.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: Dan Rydell on July 19, 2007, 11:21:02 PM
In all this discussion of underachieving coaches, I think we're missing the most important thing here:

What's the reaction of Hoax and DocHolliday to their savior in what, his sixth (?) year, getting picked behind KSU's second-year man?

I mean, no doubt Mangino's got the program headed in the right direction...from 6th place to 4th in the North in only six years.  At this pace, their sights should be firmly set on 2nd place by 2013!

Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: mjrod on July 19, 2007, 11:24:10 PM
In all this discussion of underachieving coaches, I think we're missing the most important thing here:

What's the reaction of Hoax and DocHolliday to their savior in what, his sixth (?) year, getting picked behind KSU's second-year man?

I mean, no doubt Mangino's got the program headed in the right direction...from 6th place to 4th in the North in only six years.  At this pace, their sights should be firmly set on 2nd place by 2013!



Isn't that the million (and a half) dollar question?

Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: JMITCH on July 20, 2007, 12:00:41 AM


Mack Brown out-coached Snyder in 02 and 03.

Mack Brown took a 4-7 Texas team in 1997 and turned them into a 9-3 cotton bowl champs in his 1st year.
You suck.

Fatty nailed this one.  The ride back from Austin will be a long one.
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: vanro031 on July 20, 2007, 12:35:54 AM
Keep in mind you have to water JMitch twice a week to make him make any sense. :twobirds:
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: yosh on July 20, 2007, 12:54:34 AM
is it pronounced yosh...like josh? or osh kosh
or yosh, like yo-shhhh,YOSHima, YOshi?


pissclams PM'd me to ask you.

The second one...long O. 
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: chum1 on July 23, 2007, 10:37:07 AM
Mac on Mack:

Quote
Coach Mack Brown has done a superb job of recruiting since he became head coach at Texas; however, his coaching on Saturdays leaves something to be desired.
http://www.ksallink.com/Sports/SportsEd/ (http://www.ksallink.com/Sports/SportsEd/)
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: chum1 on July 23, 2007, 11:24:16 AM
Quote
As I've posted over the past couple years. Some people will claim that they hav the winningest coach or program over x number of years. So I compiled a table showing the winningest Div 1A coaches over periods ranging from 2 to 20 years.

2005-2006 23-Brown, Carroll 22-6 tied
2004-2006 36-Carroll 34-Brown, Meyer 33-Tuberville
2003-2006 48-Carroll 44-Brown, Meyer
2002-2006 59-Carroll 55-Brown, Tressel
2001-2006 66-Brown 65-Carroll 62-Tressel
2000-2006 75-Brown 71-Stoops 68-Beamer 66-Tuberville
1999-2006 84-Brown 79-Beamer 74-Bowden
1998-2006 93-Brown 88-Beamer 85-Bowden 84-Carr
1997-2006 103-Brown 96-Bowden, Carr 95-Beamer
1996-2006 113-Brown 107-Bowden 105-Beamer 104-Fullmer
1995-2006 120-Brown 117-Bowden 115-Beamer, Fullmer
1994-2006 128-Brown 127-Bowden 123-Beamer, Fullmer
1993-2006 139-Bowden 138-Brown 133-Fullmer 132-Beamer
1992-2006 150-Bowden 147-Brown 137-Fullmer 134-Beamer
1991-2006 161-Bowden 154-Brown 139-Beamer 134-Paterno
1990-2006 171-Bowden 160-Brown 145-Beamer 143-Paterno
1989-2006 181-Bowden 161-Brown 151-Paterno, Beamer
1988-2006 192-Bowden 162-Brown 156-Paterno 154-Beamer
1987-2006 203-Bowden 168-Brown 164-Paterno 157-Spurrier
link to hornfans.com (http://forums.hornfans.com/php/wwwthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=football&Number=5077260&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=)
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: KSU4ME on July 23, 2007, 12:32:04 PM
Is that good?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: michigancat on July 23, 2007, 12:38:34 PM
Is that good?

Having more wins than anyone not named Bobby Bowden over the last 20 years?
Title: Re: consensus #3
Post by: KSU4ME on July 23, 2007, 01:06:59 PM
Is that good?

Having more wins than anyone not named Bobby Bowden over the last 20 years?
:frown: