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Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: power4PURPLE on July 11, 2007, 10:26:31 PM

Title: '08 Recruiting
Post by: power4PURPLE on July 11, 2007, 10:26:31 PM
First off, saw this on Rivals today concerning Keanon Cooper.....

{ Cooper says that he doesn't have any favorites, but has a large list of schools he's looking at strongly.

"I'm just in the process of starting to eliminate schools to get it down for my five official visits," Cooper said. "On my list right now is Minnesota, Wisconsin, Georgia Tech, Alabama, Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and West Virginia. Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

"Everyone else isn't out of it, but I'm looking at those pretty hard right now."  }

It would suck not getting him. He could have huge upside and he could play early in '08. But what really gets to me is the type of people we have offers on the table for. Of course Arthur is probably out of the picture, but some of the things he hit on about wanting to see what kind of talent people are bringing in, it's surely not helping us. We have offers to only 3 4star recruits and only a few more out there for 3star recruits. Why not roll the dice and express interest in some more talented players??? Why the love for all these 2star guys that may or may not turn out to be worth it...or even better, the 8 million offers we keep giving to "athletes". I'm a little lost on just what Prince and Co. are doing out on the recruiting trail. Maybe this is evident to more than just me....
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: tmramrod91 on July 11, 2007, 10:38:45 PM
We're all lost.
He thinks he can recruit athletes and turn them into great football players. That can be done in some cases, but not entire recruiting classes. Players are highly rated and have big time offers for a reason.
RP  :flush: in 4 years
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: doom on July 11, 2007, 11:00:44 PM
He's had one season and in that one season he exceeded expectations.  I think he knows more than you, your being lost does not concern me, and you should give him a chance.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: tmramrod91 on July 11, 2007, 11:16:04 PM
He's had one season and in that one season he exceeded expectations.  I think he knows more than you, your being lost does not concern me, and you should give him a chance.

He knows more than I do, but does he know more than every major college coach in the nation? I know he's scary smart, but there has to be some reason why some of the kids he is offering arent be offered by other major D1 schools.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: enjoytheNeujahr on July 12, 2007, 02:54:25 AM
  Kids can be coached, year one was a definite success, we shall see.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: KungFoooKitty on July 12, 2007, 02:59:22 AM
 All Hail McFantastic Whiteymcrecruiterness.....oh sweet hesus we suck.  I guess I am one of those joyful naysayers who see our class not as a beautiful class of diamonds in the rough but rather a bunch of kids that no other &@#%ing school would consider want is the &@#%ing problem with our school and our god damn recruiting mother &@#% mc&@#%er &@#%enstein.  damn it all to hell.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: Leyton on July 12, 2007, 04:10:02 AM
We have offers to only 3 4star recruits and only a few more out there for 3star recruits.

Wait - are you serious?  Consider the following possibilities:

1. The KSU coaching staff and/or the players they've offered have not told Rivals.com every little detail about every recruitment process (little details could include a totally awesome player with a gazillion stars totally not even remembering that Ron Prince sent him a hand-written thank you note thanking him for being so awesome).
2. Our coaches are going to great lengths to avoid signing any talented players so that they can compile one of the worst BCS recruiting classes of all time.

Hmm...
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: Pett on July 12, 2007, 07:53:54 AM
LOL, I remember all of us about a month or so ago thinking that we had a great shot at landing the Skyline trio of Reeves, Cooper, & Dupree.

Those were the days.... :frown:

We're now open to a whole different recruiting scheme.  :crybaby:
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: KSUTOMMY on July 12, 2007, 07:57:17 AM
He's had one season and in that one season he exceeded expectations.  I think he knows more than you, your being lost does not concern me, and you should give him a chance.

THANK YOU! We are the best coaches that we know on Saturdays while we sit in the easy chair and tip back a cold one and second guess as we watch the replay 5 thousand times and ask, "What if". What it boils down to it that starts dont mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Let's put this into perspective-
Marc Dunn Highest rated JUCO QB in the country - all everything, came to KSU, sucked - showed spots of greatness, but overall... not good

2 star recruit, Salina, KS, originally committed to ku with Terry (what's his name, coach before Jabba the Hutt), we got him to commit to us and he turned out to be the 4th overall draft in the NFL - Terrance Newman.

Stars mean little to nothing, but to give teams like USC more headlines. BTW what happened to the second coming of top qbs Marc "Dirty" Sanchez? he was supposed to be awesome too... I am not sure if he has started yet or not. Oh speaking of Marcs what also happened to Marc Dunn? Last I saw he was in NFL Europe.

Anyway, lets let Prince do his thing, and we can all do our thing - drink beer and root for our guys.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: FBWillie on July 12, 2007, 09:04:57 AM
Why didn't someone bring this m. dunn / t. newman argument to the table sooner.  I've completely flip flopped.

 :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu:

P.S. Marc Dunn's wife was(prob still is) hot. 
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: steve dave on July 12, 2007, 09:06:50 AM
P.S. Marc Dunn's wives were(prob still are) hot. 

Fixed your post
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 12, 2007, 09:10:45 AM
P.S. Marc Dunn's wives were(prob still are) hot. 

Fixed your post

 :grin:
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: asava on July 12, 2007, 09:14:50 AM
Stars mean little to nothing, but to give teams like USC more headlines.

headlines that read: This is the 4th Undefeated Season USC has had in the last 5 years.

or

USC In the Title Game...AGAIN!

or

USC National Champions

or

Trojans Demolish (insert team name here)

those are the headlines i think you were talking about.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: power4PURPLE on July 12, 2007, 10:53:50 AM
He's had one season and in that one season he exceeded expectations.  I think he knows more than you, your being lost does not concern me, and you should give him a chance.

THANK YOU! We are the best coaches that we know on Saturdays while we sit in the easy chair and tip back a cold one and second guess as we watch the replay 5 thousand times and ask, "What if". What it boils down to it that starts dont mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Let's put this into perspective-
Marc Dunn Highest rated JUCO QB in the country - all everything, came to KSU, sucked - showed spots of greatness, but overall... not good

2 star recruit, Salina, KS, originally committed to ku with Terry (what's his name, coach before Jabba the Hutt), we got him to commit to us and he turned out to be the 4th overall draft in the NFL - Terrance Newman.

Stars mean little to nothing, but to give teams like USC more headlines. BTW what happened to the second coming of top qbs Marc "Dirty" Sanchez? he was supposed to be awesome too... I am not sure if he has started yet or not. Oh speaking of Marcs what also happened to Marc Dunn? Last I saw he was in NFL Europe.

Anyway, lets let Prince do his thing, and we can all do our thing - drink beer and root for our guys.

sure, we could go and find guys that are ranked terribly on Rivals who turn out to be great Wildcats...
'02- Marcus Watts (2stars)
'05- Gary Chandler (2stars) & Zach Diles (NR)
'06- Josh Moore (2stars)

but for those few that do stand out, there are all the others that fail miserably. go ahead, look for yourself and try to prove to me other less than stellar prospects that turned out big on the field...
'03- Greg Gaskins Jr. & John McCardle
'04- Justin D'Arcy & Lester Graham & Romunn Grigsby
'05- Chad Lowe & Brandon Rees & Val Taylor & Courtney Greer
'06- Trevor Viers & Patrick Turner & Kenneth Mayfield & Jamal Schulters & TONY PURVIS

let's be honest here. i'm not saying don't offer to anything less than 3stars. but i am saying that don't try and prove to us how you can mold all these guys into D1 players. go out, extend some offers to some better players, and if we end up with a crapty class, oh well- we tried! plus, all i ever hear is about how when guys come here, whether they commit or not, they love how respectful and down to earth our coaching staff is. personally, i think we have a better shot at talent than Prince and his staff think they do.     :thumbsup:
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: LimestoneOutcropping on July 12, 2007, 11:02:48 AM
Wasn't recruiting high profile black athletes supposed to be his STRENGTH?
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: power4PURPLE on July 12, 2007, 11:05:44 AM
haha, supposedly...if we wanted that we should of snagged an SEC assistant. but until i see another recruiting class, i'm gonna try to keep my mouth shut on prince and his staff's abilities
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 12, 2007, 11:08:21 AM
Our recruiting is awful, barring any sort of miracle or a change in players we recruit, we will never be more than an 8 win team, imo.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: steve dave on July 12, 2007, 11:09:29 AM
i'm gonna try to keep my mouth shut on prince and his staff's abilities

Not me.  I agree with Fatty.  As long as the ship is sinking I am going to scream at the Captain for hitting the God damned iceberg.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: michigancat on July 12, 2007, 11:14:33 AM
He's Al Groh w/o the talent.

Quote
1) Al Groh, Virginia: Matt Schaub. D'Brickashaw Ferguson. Heath Miller. Ahmad Brooks. Groh has produced his share of talent in Charlottesville. So what does he have to show for it? A 25-23 ACC record and a whole bunch of Christmas dinners in Charlotte and Boise.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/07/10/mailbag/1.html
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fatty fat fat on July 12, 2007, 11:17:01 AM
He's Al Groh w/o the talent.

Quote
1) Al Groh, Virginia: Matt Schaub. D'Brickashaw Ferguson. Heath Miller. Ahmad Brooks. Groh has produced his share of talent in Charlottesville. So what does he have to show for it? A 25-23 ACC record and a whole bunch of Christmas dinners in Charlotte and Boise.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/07/10/mailbag/1.html


 Prince?
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: power4PURPLE on July 12, 2007, 11:17:36 AM
if we want talent, I'VE FOUND IT FOR Prince!!!

first off, we need some bad mamma jamma's on the defensive line for the future. and by bad mamma jamma's, i'm looking for something simliar to this...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=HaK_TArMLfM&mode=related&search= (http://youtube.com/watch?v=HaK_TArMLfM&mode=related&search=)

personally, i think this guy will do in place of john henderson, but it sounds like we're not putting enough heat on him. why? i don't know...
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=66246 (http://kansasstate.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=66246)

and as for offense, why not an addition like this to the backfield with Leon (if we can pry him away from Nebraska)...
http://jucojunction.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=66322&sport=1 (http://jucojunction.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=66322&sport=1)

finally, there was one player who slipped under everybody's radar and if somebody can tell me how or why, i'm interested...cuz his film is way too good for him not to commit anywhere...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NmNVYxHodSc (http://youtube.com/watch?v=NmNVYxHodSc)

but if we're looking for the future on the defensive side to continue the lynch mob mentality, why not head to south and offer TREY FENNELL RIGHT NOW!!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LJp-sg5vJa0 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LJp-sg5vJa0)

Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: Bullfn33 on July 12, 2007, 11:34:26 AM
Our recruiting is awful, barring any sort of miracle or a change in players we recruit, we will never be more than an 8 win team, imo.

And neither will Mizzou even though their recruiting is much better so how do recruiting stars determine everything?  Answer is, they don't.  Only some things.  People just need to give Prince a chance and worry about what happens on the field and not so much on rivals.com.  Then we would be like "the future is so bright because we see stars on rivals.com" Nebraska fans but forget their coach still sucks so bad he can't beat a top 20 team with top 10 recruiting classes after year 3.  It's all about the guy in the head chair.  We don't know about Prince yet, but at this point, I would venture to say he's already ahead of Pinkel and Callahan, both of who are recruiting much better according to rivals.com(which is apparently the bible of college football success).  BTW, 5 stars are the most reliable prospects.  There are very few of them and there are still busts every year. 

All I'm saying is give the guy a chance, a few more years before everyone starts yelling that the sky is falling on the program.  That's probably way too much to ask these days but that should be the reality.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: FBWillie on July 12, 2007, 11:49:32 AM
What's your goal with KSU football?  I don't know about you, but I want a &@#%ing NC.  Name one NC team that didn't have a top 25 recruiting class.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: Pete on July 12, 2007, 02:19:18 PM
He's had one season and in that one season he exceeded expectations. 

Bull crap.

Matt Miller could have been the head coach last year and we would have won 6 games.  Does winning the 7th game excuse his "unique" approaches to things?

Ron may turn out great, but he has not proved a thing....other than proving that Ron/Josh Freeman and Lamark Brown like him.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: goCATSgo on July 12, 2007, 05:31:29 PM
you are not ever gonna  be a top 15 team w/o great recruiting classes PERIOD. if rivals was rating players in the 90s we would have had a bunch of 4 and 5 star people. if you could consistently win with 2*s and NO*s then Boise State would be in the NC every year. Bottom line is Prince needs to step up his recruiting game up a little. what does it hurt to offer good players, just dont count on them commiting and have a backup recruit.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: Bullfn33 on July 12, 2007, 11:38:28 PM
you are not ever gonna  be a top 15 team w/o great recruiting classes PERIOD. if rivals was rating players in the 90s we would have had a bunch of 4 and 5 star people. if you could consistently win with 2*s and NO*s then Boise State would be in the NC every year. Bottom line is Prince needs to step up his recruiting game up a little. what does it hurt to offer good players, just dont count on them commiting and have a backup recruit.

But you can be a top 30 type of team w/o stellar classes.  It's a process.  Of all fanbases, Kansas State's should know about building processes.  Snyder built up to getting those 4-5 star quality players by the mid to late 90s.  He didn't get them in his first 5 seasons.  Some don't seem to understand that you can't just roll in a bunch of 4-5 star players when you don't have great tradition, are located in an isolated part of the country and have been a doormat for a couple years*.  Winning on the field is the only way for this to start happening again.  You become a top 30 type of team and you can bet it will be much easier to pull some of those guys in and THEN you will have a chance to be a top 15 team. 


*unless you are Ron Zook; and god knows what's going on there.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: mjrod on July 12, 2007, 11:52:34 PM
you are not ever gonna  be a top 15 team w/o great recruiting classes PERIOD. if rivals was rating players in the 90s we would have had a bunch of 4 and 5 star people. if you could consistently win with 2*s and NO*s then Boise State would be in the NC every year. Bottom line is Prince needs to step up his recruiting game up a little. what does it hurt to offer good players, just dont count on them commiting and have a backup recruit.

Rich Rodriguez wants a word with you.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: mjrod on July 13, 2007, 12:02:07 AM
Stars are extremely subjective and every team has different philosophies in selecting players for their program.

Would I love to have every four and five star player consider and accept an offer from K-State.   That's not possible.  West Virginia has never had consistent top 25 classes (if hardly at all).

Utah under Urban Meyer.. where were his classes?   There are many factors, that determine success to any team, but you cannot assume that if we had a boat load of 5 star talent, we'd win NC's year in and year out.   Goodness knows that it took one very good 5 star QB to get Texas to an NC game.   Texas averaged 4 star talent on the field when we beat them.  We had what.. two?

So to be clear, do we want the top talent around the country?  Absolutely.  Could you build an NC team with them?  Not unless you had a good enough coach.    I wonder how many KSU 2 and 3 stars are playing in the NFL right now.   At the same time, how many four and five star kids have we had that washed out of our program?

It just depends on who's doing the evaluating.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: Slick on July 13, 2007, 02:25:17 AM
This is what an underrated recruit looks like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo6t70x4f2E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo6t70x4f2E)
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fb on July 13, 2007, 08:02:09 AM
you are not ever gonna  be a top 15 team w/o great recruiting classes PERIOD. if rivals was rating players in the 90s we would have had a bunch of 4 and 5 star people. if you could consistently win with 2*s and NO*s then Boise State would be in the NC every year. Bottom line is Prince needs to step up his recruiting game up a little. what does it hurt to offer good players, just dont count on them commiting and have a backup recruit.

Sincerely,
Louisville, West Virginia, Rutgers, and Boise State
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: FBWillie on July 13, 2007, 09:04:52 AM
You're right.  .0336 of the time you can be successful with recruits that are not ranked in the top 25.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fb on July 13, 2007, 09:16:30 AM
Including the MAC, CUSA, and and Sun Belt distort your calculations. 

You guys win.  We need more of this.

2002-#14
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2002&School=34 (http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2002&School=34)

2004-#18
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2004&School=34 (http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2004&School=34)

Those classes were full of 3 and 4 star kids that sucked.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fb on July 13, 2007, 09:20:13 AM
tcu and Wisconsin can be included too.  Maybe more if I cared to really put much effort into it.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: michigancat on July 13, 2007, 09:23:47 AM
Including the MAC, CUSA, and and Sun Belt distort your calculations. 

You guys win.  We need more of this.

2002-#14
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2002&School=34 (http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2002&School=34)

2004-#18
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2004&School=34 (http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2004&School=34)

Those classes were full of 3 and 4 star kids that sucked.

To be fair, the two stars sucked a lot harder.

Jerry Hill   DB      5-11   165   4.4   -       Fort Lauderdale, FL
Louis Lavender   DB      6-0   180   4.5   -       Los Angeles, CA
Justin Mckinney   DB      5-11   175   4.52   -       Sanford, FL
Dylan Meier   ATH      6-2   205   4.58   -       Pittsburg, KS
Marcus Watts   DB      6-2   175   4.58   -       Hays, KS
Ryan Schmidt   OL      6-5   293   4.78   5.3       Boca Raton, FL
Jordan Bedore   ATH      6-4   250   4.74   5.2       Goodland, KS
Vladimir Faustin   DE      6-3   235   4.7   5.2       Miami, FL
Lester Graham   LB      6-0   215   4.48   5.2       Fort Pierce, FL
Romunn Grigsby   WR      6-4   185   4.5   5.2       Clayton, OH
Brad Rooker   OL      6-7   260   4.85   5.2       Omaha, NE
Brett Alstatt   RB      6-4   220   4.6   5.1      Hays, KS
Justin D'Arcy   OL      6-6   305   5.1   -       Aptos, CA
Surrell Davis   DB      6-0   200   4.45   -       San Mateo, CA
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fb on July 13, 2007, 09:49:37 AM
I'm willing to say I Watts, Schmidt (good player just didn't work here with Prince that is now at one of those previously mentioned teams-WV), Bedore, McKinney, and Rooker are all servicable at a minimum.  That is 5/14 (35.7%).  Again I am too lazy to look but what % of the 3, 4, and 5 star kids were at least servicable?
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: michigancat on July 13, 2007, 10:04:35 AM
Randy Jordan   DB      6-2   175   4.5   -       Bakersfield, CA
Donnie Anders   RB      5-10   175   4.4   -       Salina, KS
Brandon Archer   LB      6-2   220   4.6   -       St. Paul, MN
Jermaine Berry   DT      5-11   290   4.69   -       El Dorado, KS
Jeromey Clary   OL      6-8   290   5.1   -       Arlington, TX
Quintin Echols   DT      6-2   300   5   -       Fort Worth, TX
Kevin Huntley   DE      6-6   255   4.64   -       Valley Forge, PA
Ryan Lilja   OL      6-3   300   5.2   -       Coffeyville, KS
Logan Robinson   OL      6-9   310   5.3   -       Agra, KS
James Terry   WR      6-5   185   4.4   -       El Dorado, KS
Tearrius George   DT      6-4   265   5.2   -       Valley Glen, CA
Maurice Porter   DB      6-1   190   4.48   -       San Francisco, CA
Kyle Williams   DB      6-1   190   4.4   -       Coriscana, TX
Parrish Fisher   RB      5-9   204   4.4   5.7      Richardson, TX
Cedric Wilson   ATH      6-1   175   4.44   5.6       Fort Pierce, FL
Allan Evridge   QB      6-1   205   4.5   5.5      Papillion, NE
John Hafferty   OL      6-3   305   4.87   5.5      Alpharetta, GA
Caleb Handy   OL      6-2   300   5.17   5.5      Conway Springs, KS
Gerard Spexarth   OL      6-6   301   5.3   5.5      Andale, KS
Yamon Figurs   WR      6-0   180   4.4   -       Garden City, KS
Bret Jones   DB      6-1   195   4.5   -       San Francisco, CA

21/32 = 65.6%

God, what a stupid argument.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: asava on July 13, 2007, 10:17:21 AM
that was an ultimate pwn if i have ever seen one. damn!
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fb on July 13, 2007, 10:37:29 AM
My world after the numbers came out...
(http://www.innovation.ex.ac.uk/imm/destroyed%20village15.JPG)

FWIW I have been critical to a degree on the 2 star kids.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: michigancat on July 13, 2007, 10:39:34 AM
^FWIW, that wasn't necessarily directed to you, but to everyone who thinks just signing a bunch of lame two-stars is okay.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: KSU4ME on July 13, 2007, 10:39:59 AM
Randy Jordan   DB      6-2   175   4.5   -       Bakersfield, CA
Donnie Anders   RB      5-10   175   4.4   -       Salina, KS
Brandon Archer   LB      6-2   220   4.6   -       St. Paul, MN
Jermaine Berry   DT      5-11   290   4.69   -       El Dorado, KS
Jeromey Clary   OL      6-8   290   5.1   -       Arlington, TX
Quintin Echols   DT      6-2   300   5   -       Fort Worth, TX
Kevin Huntley   DE      6-6   255   4.64   -       Valley Forge, PA
Ryan Lilja   OL      6-3   300   5.2   -       Coffeyville, KS
Logan Robinson   OL      6-9   310   5.3   -       Agra, KS
James Terry   WR      6-5   185   4.4   -       El Dorado, KS
Tearrius George   DT      6-4   265   5.2   -       Valley Glen, CA
Maurice Porter   DB      6-1   190   4.48   -       San Francisco, CA
Kyle Williams   DB      6-1   190   4.4   -       Coriscana, TX
Parrish Fisher   RB      5-9   204   4.4   5.7      Richardson, TX
Cedric Wilson   ATH      6-1   175   4.44   5.6       Fort Pierce, FL
Allan Evridge   QB      6-1   205   4.5   5.5      Papillion, NE
John Hafferty   OL      6-3   305   4.87   5.5      Alpharetta, GA
Caleb Handy   OL      6-2   300   5.17   5.5      Conway Springs, KS
Gerard Spexarth   OL      6-6   301   5.3   5.5      Andale, KS
Yamon Figurs   WR      6-0   180   4.4   -       Garden City, KS
Bret Jones   DB      6-1   195   4.5   -       San Francisco, CA

21/32 = 65.6%

God, what a stupid argument.

I agree with your point, it's dead on, but you don't have to fudge the numbers to make it.  There were a lot more 3/4 star busts in 02/04:

2002:
Andrew Bulman
John Cooper
John Beuthin
Brandon Grandberry
Thad Hedgpeth
Sean Lowe
Tony Madison
Rimmon McNeese
Noah Strozier
Hammond Thomas
Michael Weiner

You could also include Peni H and Dan Davis as five star busts from 2002.  And I would consider Maurice Mack as at least serviceable.   


2004:
Matt Boss
Nick Patton
Walter Hudson
Aaron Darks
Jesse Martinez

And Cedric Wilson was a two star signee out of JC in 2006.  So he kind of nets out the star argument.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fb on July 13, 2007, 10:45:26 AM
^FWIW, that wasn't necessarily directed to you, but to everyone who thinks just signing a bunch of lame two-stars is okay.

Got ya.  I agree completely that a bunch of 2 stars alone is not a good idea.  Sure rivals is clueless many times in terms of actually identifying talent.  However, they also use offer lists to steer them in directions.  If a kid is being offered by a bunch of Sun Belt teams, etc or service academy school only...or no one the we are likely getting a kid that probably is questionable.

It is even more worrisome when these kids have been to other camps and don't generate interest...especially from the UTEPs, Houstons, Rices, Air Forces of college football.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 13, 2007, 10:46:58 AM
So none of the current high school recruits committed to KSU will show the recruiting "experts" at Rivals that they are worthy of additional stars from the Rivals recruiting "experts" (all with years of D1 coaching experience)??   :crybaby:  :crybaby:
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 13, 2007, 10:48:35 AM
2002:
Andrew Bulman
John Cooper
John Beuthin
Brandon Grandberry
Thad Hedgpeth
Sean Lowe
Tony Madison
Rimmon McNeese
Noah Strozier
Hammond Thomas
Michael Weiner


Ah yes, I remember what a bunch of studs all those guys were going to be.   :crybaby:
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: KSU4ME on July 13, 2007, 11:51:53 AM
Bulman's BP was the best thing he ever contributed, and I have no idea how one Weiner could be so good, and the other suck.

Oh, wait.

Meier.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: michigancat on July 13, 2007, 11:54:38 AM
I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: fb on July 13, 2007, 12:10:01 PM
Many of them were kids that the big hitters didn't target b/c they had academic and/or character concerns.  Janet and the big OL whose names slips my memory come to mind.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: FBWillie on July 13, 2007, 02:26:55 PM
Sincerely,
Louisville, West Virginia, Rutgers, and Boise State

Including the MAC, CUSA, and and Sun Belt distort your calculations. 

Oh I get it, Our goal is to be like MAC, CUSA, SUN Belt teams and Flavor of the month teams.

Sorry, didn't realize that people don't care about National championships.  I'll lower my expectations to something that's easily obtainable so I can be happy about bragging about a Big 12 championship and crappy losses in 1 BCS bowl game every 10 years while simultaniously being happy with 8-10 win season's in a conferance with 1/3 of those teams that have atleast 1 National championship and not considered the upper echelon of that conferance.  I didn't realize that our goal was to be 3rd best in the Conferance and never have a National Championship to hang our hat on.  We should just accept the fact a National Championship is out of reach and when Huskers/Sooners/Longhorns throw their NC's in our face we'll just respond with 2003 (38-9),2003(35-7), & 2006(45-42).   I get this logic now; I'm clear!
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: michigancat on July 13, 2007, 02:35:37 PM
I'd actually be totally content with a North title every three or four years.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: catzacker on July 13, 2007, 02:40:14 PM
I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO

I get what you're saying, but would Freeman have really fit into Snyder's system?  Basically, recruiting sucked after the exodus of '98, 2* or otherwise.  
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: michigancat on July 13, 2007, 02:42:19 PM
I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO

I get what you're saying, but would Freeman have really fit into Snyder's system?  Basically, recruiting sucked after the exodus of '98, 2* or otherwise. 

QFT, and Snyder made Brian Kavanaugh fit into his system, to the tune of a goddam Cotton Bowl.

Snyder could make anyone fit.  He actually said he messed up after he saw Josh practice.  On 810 with KK.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: catzacker on July 13, 2007, 02:47:39 PM
I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO

I get what you're saying, but would Freeman have really fit into Snyder's system?  Basically, recruiting sucked after the exodus of '98, 2* or otherwise. 

QFT, and Snyder made Brian Kavanaugh fit into his system, to the tune of a goddam Cotton Bowl.

Snyder could make anyone fit.  He actually said he messed up after he saw Josh practice.  On 810 with KK.

Interesting, for some reason I had not heard that before.  Although I think that it appeared that Snyder was fixated on the dual threat qb as everyone of his "drop back QB's" since Kavanaugh basically sucked pond water or got strange stomach viruses. 
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: michigancat on July 13, 2007, 03:07:26 PM
http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=2868.0
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: catzacker on July 13, 2007, 03:57:31 PM
http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=2868.0

Quote
On Between the Lines with that son of a bitch Kevin Keitzman.  He based this on spring and fall practices.

He said he didn't recruit Josh, but he pretty much blamed it on an assistant's evaluation.


Also said he and Ell have closure and that they hugged.


God, Snyder's assistants sucked. 
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: Bookcat on July 13, 2007, 04:37:43 PM
http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=2868.0

Quote
On Between the Lines with that son of a bitch Kevin Keitzman.  He based this on spring and fall practices.

He said he didn't recruit Josh, but he pretty much blamed it on an assistant's evaluation.


Also said he and Ell have closure and that they hugged.


God, Snyder's assistants sucked. 

yes. and he wouldn't fire any of them and it was our program's downfall.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: catzacker on July 13, 2007, 04:55:38 PM
http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=2868.0

Quote
On Between the Lines with that son of a bitch Kevin Keitzman.  He based this on spring and fall practices.

He said he didn't recruit Josh, but he pretty much blamed it on an assistant's evaluation.


Also said he and Ell have closure and that they hugged.


God, Snyder's assistants sucked. 

yes. and he wouldn't fire any of them and it was our program's downfall.

Bill didn't exactly help them out either with his self-imposed recruiting restrictions.  Hell, Bill single-handedly convinced Chase Coffman to go to MU because he was so incredibly boring.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: catinthehat on July 13, 2007, 05:29:26 PM
I hear people throwing out a bunch of teams that don't land high in the recruit rankings but do well anyway.  well, west virginia runds a system that is not heavily used, thus his recruits will generally get less attention.  Rutgers, well, one good year doesn't make you anything more than a one hit wonder as of now.  utah under meyer, mid major team, was good and was given the worst bcs conf champ to play, pitt, a team that nu beat that year.  As for Snyder, your not gonna land top 20 classes every year when you take a good amount of jucos, those guys don't get as accurately ranked as prep guys to.

to find the answer, ask yourself this question.  first, decide what level you want ksu to consistantly be at.  say you want them to bew a top 15 team.  asl yourself this.  how many teams from bcs conferances that run a pro system are consistantly in the top 15 without consistantly recruiting well.  Compile your answers and take that out of about 117.  those are your odds.

and btw, NU only has had 1 top 10 class under cally.  his transition is one of the bigger ones in the history of college football so it took him 2 years to do something nu hasn't done since 1999, which is win the north.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: catzacker on July 13, 2007, 05:33:51 PM
I hear people throwing out a bunch of teams that don't land high in the recruit rankings but do well anyway.  well, west virginia runds a system that is not heavily used, thus his recruits will generally get less attention.  Rutgers, well, one good year doesn't make you anything more than a one hit wonder as of now.  utah under meyer, mid major team, was good and was given the worst bcs conf champ to play, pitt, a team that nu beat that year.  As for Snyder, your not gonna land top 20 classes every year when you take a good amount of jucos, those guys don't get as accurately ranked as prep guys to.

to find the answer, ask yourself this question.  first, decide what level you want ksu to consistantly be at.  say you want them to bew a top 15 team.  asl yourself this.  how many teams from bcs conferances that run a pro system are consistantly in the top 15 without consistantly recruiting well.  Compile your answers and take that out of about 117.  those are your odds.

and btw, NU only has had 1 top 10 class under cally.  his transition is one of the bigger ones in the history of college football so it took him 2 years to do something nu hasn't done since 1999, which is win the north.

cop out
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: catinthehat on July 13, 2007, 06:10:48 PM
didn't cop anything out.  after 2 years into one of the biggest transitions ever we won the diivision, what exactly am I copping out?
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: WildCatzPhreak on July 13, 2007, 06:12:36 PM
Winning the north isn't exactly a good way to compare achievements of the current team to past teams.

Total wins and Big XII/National Championship appearances are.

When does Callahan break 10 wins?  When does he win the Big XII?  When does he get Nebraska back to a national championship game?

Solich was able to do all those things.  He won at least ten games per season regularly(even the season he was fired.)  He won the Big XII in 1999.  He got the huskers back to a national championship game in 2001.

Despite great recruiting, Callahan has continued to underachieve.  He's also broken many streaks that spanned over several different past coaches at NU(consecutive bowl games, ku, etc.)  He's only finished in the top 25 once, and never finished in the top 20.  He still has no victories over either a top 5 or even top 10 team.  And despite the addition of an entire game and playing in the weakest division in BCS football(The Big XII north,) Callahan still hasn't won 10 games.

FWIW, I do think he'll eventually win ten games, but only due to playing in the current Big XII north (with no ranked teams) and the addition of an extra game (basically a free win in Lincoln every year to give him a handicap.)  He won't ever win the Big XII, and definitely won't ever get NU back to the national championship game.



Now think.  Would Solich have won the north by now considering how weak the north division is?  'DUH.  And he'd have kept the streaks in tact as well as gathering more total wins.


It's a joke how husker fans magically think they're making progress and are "coming back."  Not even close.  They're not even at the level of where they were when they fired their last coach.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: FBWillie on July 14, 2007, 10:12:35 AM
I hear people throwing out a bunch of teams that don't land high in the recruit rankings but do well anyway.  well, west virginia runds a system that is not heavily used, thus his recruits will generally get less attention.  Rutgers, well, one good year doesn't make you anything more than a one hit wonder as of now.  utah under meyer, mid major team, was good and was given the worst bcs conf champ to play, pitt, a team that nu beat that year.  As for Snyder, your not gonna land top 20 classes every year when you take a good amount of jucos, those guys don't get as accurately ranked as prep guys to.

to find the answer, ask yourself this question.  first, decide what level you want ksu to consistantly be at.  say you want them to bew a top 15 team.  asl yourself this.  how many teams from bcs conferances that run a pro system are consistantly in the top 15 without consistantly recruiting well.  Compile your answers and take that out of about 117.  those are your odds.

and btw, NU only has had 1 top 10 class under cally.  his transition is one of the bigger ones in the history of college football so it took him 2 years to do something nu hasn't done since 1999, which is win the north.

Wow, What an original thought.  jackass.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: steve dave on July 14, 2007, 11:00:13 AM
It's a joke how husker fans magically think they're making progress and are "coming back."  Not even close.  They're not even at the level of where they were when they fired their last coach.

They are having their best showing in the Fulmer Cup since the days of the Warden running things.  That should account for something.  If Tom Osborne knew anything it was win at any cost.  It appears Callahan is on the same path and it should begin to show results.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: cireksu on July 14, 2007, 11:12:30 AM
08 recruiting pretty much sucks right now.*

*getting back to orignional topic.
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: catinthehat on July 14, 2007, 12:11:49 PM
"Winning the north isn't exactly a good way to compare achievements of the current team to past teams."

it's the first place to start and it does infact, show positive improvement.  With the way franmk left things, nobody weas thinking nc in 3 years.

"Total wins and Big XII/National Championship appearances are."

and those things are now going to be the norm for nebraska.  Like it or not, the road to the dr pepper game leads through lincoln, just like it used to for the north teams

"When does Callahan break 10 wins?  When does he win the Big XII?  When does he get Nebraska back to a national championship game?"

sooner than any of his division opponets ever will

"Solich was able to do all those things."

only with osbornes players, when they ran out he couldn't do jack

  "He won at least ten games per season regularly(even the season he was fired.)"

not true.

 " He won the Big XII in 1999.  He got the huskers back to a national championship game in 2001."

won it in 99 with osbornes players, and he didn't so anything to get us to the nc game uin 99.  it was a flaw in the bcs computer system which has since been fixed

"'Despite great recruiting, Callahan has continued to underachieve. "

all he has done is improve.  you act like he has been there 6 years.  for what he inherited we are right on track.

 "He's also broken many streaks that spanned over several different past coaches at NU(consecutive bowl games, ku, etc.) "

so did frank, what is your point?

 

"Now think.  Would Solich have won the north by now considering how weak the north division is?  'DUH.  And he'd have kept the streaks in tact as well as gathering more total wins."

no, he wouldn't have.  frank did nothing but put the program into a bigger hole every year and with his recruiting and stubborness it wasn't changing.  I know, I know you wouldl; ove to have frank back but it aint happening.  the only reason for the 9 wins his last year was a flukish amount of turnovers our defense got that allowed us to sneak by many teams tyhat otherwise would have beat us.  Frank averaged 24 points per hgame that year, good for about 90th in the nation on offense


"It's a joke how husker fans magically think they're making progress and are "coming back."  Not even close.  They're not even at the level of where they were when they fired their last coach."

so, we aren't making prgress?  we didn't win the north last year or win more games than the first year?  hmm, I thought we did.  oh well.  guess you learn something new on the ksu board every day
Title: Re: '08 Recruiting
Post by: opcat on July 14, 2007, 01:58:27 PM
I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO

You can blames assistants and even some fans for pushing overrated Rivals players which doomed him.

Those 5 or 4 star Hawaiian juco Olinemen  sucked crap and helped the downfall.