KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: catzacker on June 27, 2007, 01:43:23 PM
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At least we're breaking up Albinocoat™
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At least we're breaking up Albinocoat™
We still haven't broken up Unathleticcoat
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2* = no athleticism
:bs:
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2* = no athleticism
:bs:
Joe Caprioglio is that you?
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You guys and your freaking out about the number of stars these kids have is pure comedy. Why don't you try to be a little more patient? If Prince and Co. give out another 20 'ships, how many do you EXPECT to be 3 stars or more? Be realistic people. 2007 = 2 stars (14/33) 2008 = 2 stars (5/8) PLUS, it's early enough that it is entirely possible for some of these 2 start to get bumped up. CHILL!
P.S. A 4* commit for 2007 was once a 2* rated player, who is it?
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You guys and your freaking out about the number of stars these kids have is pure comedy. Why don't you try to be a little more patient? If Prince and Co. give out another 20 'ships, how many do you EXPECT to be 3 stars or more? Be realistic people. 2007 = 2 stars (14/33) 2008 = 2 stars (5/8) PLUS, it's early enough that it is entirely possible for some of these 2 start to get bumped up. CHILL!
P.S. A 4* commit for 2007 was once a 2* rated player, who is it?
Gary Chandler. But that's beside the point..
Prince's recruiting should improve every year. The Texas game was a total waste if we don't capitalize off of it in the recruiting game. It appears that recruiting is getting worse if you look at stars alone..
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I remember when I was young and got all worked up about you guys complaining about 2*'s.
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You guys and your freaking out about the number of stars these kids have is pure comedy. Why don't you try to be a little more patient? If Prince and Co. give out another 20 'ships, how many do you EXPECT to be 3 stars or more? Be realistic people. 2007 = 2 stars (14/33) 2008 = 2 stars (5/8) PLUS, it's early enough that it is entirely possible for some of these 2 start to get bumped up. CHILL!
P.S. A 4* commit for 2007 was once a 2* rated player, who is it?
Gary Chandler. But that's beside the point..
Prince's recruiting should improve every year. The Texas game was a total waste if we don't capitalize off of it in the recruiting game. It appears that recruiting is getting worse if you look at stars alone..
His 1st full class was NOT BAD at all. He was inheriting a program that was coming off it's worst 2 years in 15 years. I agree that his 2nd class needs to improve over last year, but Rivals also made it much more difficult for players to receive 3 stars and higher. IMO, I would bet 2 of our 2* guys would be 3* if it was based on last years rating scale. Too many people look too much into stars, not to mention the programs that are recruiting these kids do have an impact on how many stars they receive too. I would put alot of $$$$ down that Arthur Brown would NOT be a 5 star recruit if it wasn't for Mr. Butler getting the likes of USC, OU, Miami, etc into Wichita. He'd probably only be a 4 star if it was OU, KSU, ku, tcu, OSU, MU.
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His 1st full class was NOT BAD at all. He was inheriting a program that was coming off it's worst 2 years in 15 years. I agree that his 2nd class needs to improve over last year, but Rivals also made it much more difficult for players to receive 3 stars and higher. IMO, I would bet 2 of our 2* guys would be 3* if it was based on last years rating scale. Too many people look too much into stars, not to mention the programs that are recruiting these kids do have an impact on how many stars they receive too. I would put alot of $$$$ down that Arthur Brown would NOT be a 5 star recruit if it wasn't for Mr. Butler getting the likes of USC, OU, Miami, etc into Wichita. He'd probably only be a 4 star if it was OU, KSU, ku, tcu, OSU, MU.
Superwille8, you kind of sucked the wind out of this thread. Congratulations.
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You guys and your freaking out about the number of stars these kids have is pure comedy. Why don't you try to be a little more patient? If Prince and Co. give out another 20 'ships, how many do you EXPECT to be 3 stars or more? Be realistic people. 2007 = 2 stars (14/33) 2008 = 2 stars (5/8) PLUS, it's early enough that it is entirely possible for some of these 2 start to get bumped up. CHILL!
P.S. A 4* commit for 2007 was once a 2* rated player, who is it?
Gary Chandler. But that's beside the point..
Prince's recruiting should improve every year. The Texas game was a total waste if we don't capitalize off of it in the recruiting game. It appears that recruiting is getting worse if you look at stars alone..
His 1st full class was NOT BAD at all. He was inheriting a program that was coming off it's worst 2 years in 15 years. I agree that his 2nd class needs to improve over last year, but Rivals also made it much more difficult for players to receive 3 stars and higher. IMO, I would bet 2 of our 2* guys would be 3* if it was based on last years rating scale. Too many people look too much into stars, not to mention the programs that are recruiting these kids do have an impact on how many stars they receive too. I would put alot of $$$$ down that Arthur Brown would NOT be a 5 star recruit if it wasn't for Mr. Butler getting the likes of USC, OU, Miami, etc into Wichita. He'd probably only be a 4 star if it was OU, KSU, ku, tcu, OSU, MU.
A. Brown already had the likes of USC, OU, and Miami recruiting him before Mr. Butler came into the picture. HTH.
You proved my point. These kids would be higher rated if better programs were going after them. The point is that NO programs are going after them. We are their only offers, maybe an Air Force or a Wyoming here or there. But that's it. Wouldn't you think that if these kids were worth a D1 scholarship that they would have been offered by better schools (or any schools, for that matter)?*
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I remember when I was young and got all worked up about you guys complaining about 2*'s.
I do to. And then I remember bringing in guys like Dylan Meier instead of Ell Roberson and Michael Bishop and guys like Matt Butler and Jesse Tetuan instead of Jeff Kelly and Jarrod Cooper. And then I remember we started losing 6 and 7 football games in a season, instead of going to bowl games and competing for Big XII titles.
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I remember when I was young and got all worked up about you guys complaining about 2*'s.
I do to. And then I remember bringing in guys like Dylan Meier instead of Ell Roberson and Michael Bishop and guys like Matt Butler and Jesse Tetuan instead of Jeff Kelly and Jarrod Cooper. And then I remember we started losing 6 and 7 football games in a season, instead of going to bowl games and competing for Big XII titles.
Kansas kids: The Downfall of KSU Football.
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Texas kids: the rise of KSU football
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Am I happy with all of the 2* commits? Nope, but I'm not going to sit around and bitch and moan about it either. Prince is in year 2 of trying to turn this thing around. You all are expecting him to be landing prospects that Coach Snyder was landing in the mid-to-late 90's! Prince and Co. landed 19 guys rated 3* or better last year in year #1. I think that is pretty damn impressive. The year before when he had 2 months to recruit he got 13 guys rated 3* or better. So IMO he's improved so far. The point I'm trying to make is people need to be more patient when it comes to judging this recruiting class.
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Not to start the argument back up again, but I think this is the kind of player that Butler was referring to in terms of 4th tier Texas player.
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I don't give a crap how many stars they have....it is the way they play on the field that matters...imo
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Why do I open these threads, when I know it's going to be a bunch of bitching and moaning from guys whoh were between 1-4 years old when Bill Snyder took over at KSU.
I am currently looking at the 2004 recruiting class list and just laughing, just a few months after we won the Big 12 and Snyder and staff laid a recruiting turd.
Look at the 2004 4* Matt Boss, man, I can't wait to watch that stud this year.
Steve Burch 4* LOL!!
Willie Williams in da house!!
Geezus.
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A kid who started for Katy, TX and was all district as a Junior is NOT a FOURTH tier Texas player.
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Why do I open these threads, when I know it's going to be a bunch of bitching and moaning from guys whoh were between 1-4 years old when Bill Snyder took over at KSU.
I am currently looking at the 2004 recruiting class list and just laughing, just a few months after we won the Big 12 and Snyder and staff laid a recruiting turd.
Look at the 2004 4* Matt Boss, man, I can't wait to watch that stud this year.
Steve Burch 4* LOL!!
Willie Williams in da house!!
Geezus.
No stop putting facts into this discussion. :loly:
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Had Steve Burch made it back for his senior season, he would have been a pretty good player IMHO.
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I remember when I was young and got all worked up about you guys complaining about 2*'s.
I do to. And then I remember bringing in guys like Dylan Meier instead of Ell Roberson and Michael Bishop and guys like Matt Butler and Jesse Tetuan instead of Jeff Kelly and Jarrod Cooper. And then I remember we started losing 6 and 7 football games in a season, instead of going to bowl games and competing for Big XII titles.
You have no idea what I'm talking about.
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Oh yeah, one really, really important thing . . . what the f_ck does it matter how many stars a kid has, if he's not even on campus to play the game??
Players actually BEING THERE is a huge factor . . . ya know, if Cody Lee Smith hadn't had the perpetual pukes, I bet he could've been one hell of a QB.
Oh and Jeff Kelly was a stud, but it wasn't like he was listed as some 5* star phenom, and the same with Cooper . . . man, some of you people don't have a clue.
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Oh yeah, one really, really important thing . . . what the f_ck does it matter how many stars a kid has, if he's not even on campus to play the game??
Players actually BEING THERE is a huge factor . . . ya know, if Cody Lee Smith hadn't had the perpetual pukes, I bet he could've been one hell of a QB.
Oh and Jeff Kelly was a stud, but it wasn't like he was listed as some 5* star phenom, and the same with Cooper . . . man, some of you people don't have a clue.
Stars are all that matter.
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Oh yeah, one really, really important thing . . . what the f_ck does it matter how many stars a kid has, if he's not even on campus to play the game??
Players actually BEING THERE is a huge factor . . . ya know, if Cody Lee Smith hadn't had the perpetual pukes, I bet he could've been one hell of a QB.
Oh and Jeff Kelly was a stud, but it wasn't like he was listed as some 5* star phenom, and the same with Cooper . . . man, some of you people don't have a clue.
Stars are all that matter.
Schools and offer lists are also good factors.
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Oh yeah, one really, really important thing . . . what the f_ck does it matter how many stars a kid has, if he's not even on campus to play the game??
Players actually BEING THERE is a huge factor . . . ya know, if Cody Lee Smith hadn't had the perpetual pukes, I bet he could've been one hell of a QB.
Oh and Jeff Kelly was a stud, but it wasn't like he was listed as some 5* star phenom, and the same with Cooper . . . man, some of you people don't have a clue.
O.K. Cool. So, if you want to take that approach then there is no reason to get excited when we land a 3/4*** type player.
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I'm still upset over Josh Portis
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Josh Portis
:crybaby: Just when I started to forget
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YOU HAVE TO TRUST THE COACH. OBVIOUSLY MOST OF YOU BELIEVE LAST SEASON WAS A FLukE.
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LAST SEASON WAS A FLukE.
QFT
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LOOK AT HOW LOUD I HAVE TO YELL............
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FYI - Jeff Kelly was an All-American that many considered to be the best JUCO linebacker in the country.
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Was last year a fluke? no. we were an above average team. We went to a lower tiered bowl to take on someone who should have been in a much better bowl and got our sh*t rocked. Our 2007 recruiting class was solid, but not good enough to get us back into the B12 championship picture. We will, again, have a solid team and go to an unimportant bowl. I hate to be pessimistic, but Kstate fans were happy to go to a bowl, and don't demand a "cotton bowl or better" team. If you think we will lose all our games, you are kidding yourself. If you think we will have an 11 win season, you are kidding yourself. Expect a .500 season. Hopefully kstate fans will begin to ask for more than a texas bowl bid. 2 and 3* guys with solid coaching will get you the texas bowl. I sorta want a BCS bowl, so I am quite unhappy with RP's recruiting.
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FYI - Jeff Kelly was an All-American that many considered to be the best JUCO linebacker in the country.
qft. we used to recruit studs.
the whole "snyder won with 2** recruits" is false.
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If we were going to pick up a 2 star safety, we might as well have picked Milo. God damnit. I'll be pissed if he doesn't get an offer, he's an athlete.
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FYI - Jeff Kelly was an All-American that many considered to be the best JUCO linebacker in the country.
qft. we used to recruit studs.
the whole "snyder won with 2** recruits" is false.
Only because they didn't have the rankings back then like they do now.
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FYI - Jeff Kelly was an All-American that many considered to be the best JUCO linebacker in the country.
qft. we used to recruit studs.
the whole "snyder won with 2** recruits" is false.
Snyder won with 4/5 star JUCOs. Wasn't Bishop the best JUCO player in the country? Yea...5 stars. I'm guessing Morgan would have been 5 stars. Every JUCO player who made a name for themselves would have been 4 stars.
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Ron Prince gets paid over $1 million dollars a year to coach football. Everyone on his staff earns around $100K minimum. A HUGE part of their success depends on them evaluating high school talent and recruiting that talent to KSU. If they do a poor job they will be publically humiliated and forced to sell insurance for $50K per year.
Jeremy Crabtree and Brian Gates and Fitz hand out "stars" to high school players and get you fools to pay them $9.95 per month to see how many "stars" they have awarded to players that are headed to KSU. They can arbitrarily change these rankings at their whim (ala Joe Lunardi) and their performance will have little (if any) affect on their compensation. Occasionally they might be questioned about some guy they misjudged and they will reply with: "Yeah, we missed on that one, but it's really difficult to see every player in person."
Now, really. Who should you dumbasses trust?
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Ron Prince gets paid over $1 million dollars a year to coach football. Everyone on his staff earns around $100K minimum. A HUGE part of their success depends on them evaluating high school talent and recruiting that talent to KSU. If they do a poor job they will be publically humiliated and forced to sell insurance for $50K per year.
Jeremy Crabtree and Brian Gates and Fitz hand out "stars" to high school players and get you fools to pay them $9.95 per month to see how many "stars" they have awarded to players that are headed to KSU. They can arbitrarily change these rankings at their whim (ala Joe Lunardi) and their performance will have little (if any) affect on their compensation. Occasionally they might be questioned about some guy they misjudged and they will reply with: "Yeah, we missed on that one, but it's really difficult to see every player in person."
Now, really. Who should you dumbasses trust?
Fitz.
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Ron Prince gets paid over $1 million dollars a year to coach football. Everyone on his staff earns around $100K minimum. A HUGE part of their success depends on them evaluating high school talent and recruiting that talent to KSU. If they do a poor job they will be publically humiliated and forced to sell insurance for $50K per year.
Jeremy Crabtree and Brian Gates and Fitz hand out "stars" to high school players and get you fools to pay them $9.95 per month to see how many "stars" they have awarded to players that are headed to KSU. They can arbitrarily change these rankings at their whim (ala Joe Lunardi) and their performance will have little (if any) affect on their compensation. Occasionally they might be questioned about some guy they misjudged and they will reply with: "Yeah, we missed on that one, but it's really difficult to see every player in person."
Now, really. Who should you dumbasses trust?
O.M.G
You do realize 95%+ of recruiting is actually LANDING the kids you 1st target?
You don't think Prince doesn't target the kids signing w/NU..etc??
Dumb&@#%.
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O.M.G
You do realize 95%+ of recruiting is actually LANDING the kids you 1st target?
You don't think Prince doesn't target the kids signing w/NU..etc??
Dumb&*$@!.
You mean like Josh Freeman?
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LOL.
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If we were going to pick up a 2 star safety, we might as well have picked Milo. God damnit. I'll be pissed if he doesn't get an offer, he's an athlete.
Doesn't look good stunner, Milo was at the KSU football camp for the whole four days of the camp, even with his HS coach there helping out, and still left the camp without an offer.
Heard if we offer Milo right now he'll commit, watch us wait until half way through his HS football season and that wont be the case anymore. :-X
Now that's a 2* that I would actually be happy with :eek:
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I'm sure ku fans trusted Terry Allen. Which isn't to say that Ron = Terry, it's to say that just because he's a coach doesn't mean he'll (a) evaluate well enough or (b) - as fatty pointed out, land the recruits he evaluated. IMO, I don't really judge recruiting classes until they have had time to produce on the field (see the '04 recruiting class) in the mean time though.....
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Ron Prince gets paid over $1 million dollars a year to coach football. Everyone on his staff earns around $100K minimum. A HUGE part of their success depends on them evaluating high school talent and recruiting that talent to KSU. If they do a poor job they will be publically humiliated and forced to sell insurance for $50K per year.
Jeremy Crabtree and Brian Gates and Fitz hand out "stars" to high school players and get you fools to pay them $9.95 per month to see how many "stars" they have awarded to players that are headed to KSU. They can arbitrarily change these rankings at their whim (ala Joe Lunardi) and their performance will have little (if any) affect on their compensation. Occasionally they might be questioned about some guy they misjudged and they will reply with: "Yeah, we missed on that one, but it's really difficult to see every player in person."
Now, really. Who should you dumbasses trust?
Fitz.
I've always said Fitz would make a great coach.
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Terry Allen didn't take a last place team and turn them into a bowl team with a win over the top 5 rated defending national champion with a crapload of walk-ons, true freshmen and juco transfers.
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http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
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I"m getting tired of reading this thread every year.
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This sucks, not only are these 2* recruits, but 2* recruits that no other team is after. :blindfold:
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http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp
We're getting tight ends that are 6'4" 230+ and run 4.7 40s? But their 2* rankings indicate that they are not good athletes?
Does Texas get 6'8" 280 guys that run 4.5 with 40" vertical leaps?
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football = doesn't require skill
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KSU recruiting and UT recruiting are pretty similar, imo. You can tell by the game last year that we have the same caliber of players as they do.
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This thread is totally going to kill our recruiting.
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This thread is totally going to kill our recruiting.
Should I ban everyone in this thread?
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This thread is totally going to kill our recruiting.
Should I ban everyone in this thread?
Did I post in it? If so, no.
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KSU recruiting and UT recruiting are pretty similar, imo. You can tell by the game last year that we have the same caliber of players as they do.
If Colt McCoy could have played it might have been different. It's too bad his shoulder turned into sand with one hit.
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This thread is totally going to kill our recruiting.
Should I ban everyone in this thread?
I'd be glad to kill myself again. LMK!
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This thread is totally going to kill our recruiting.
Should I ban everyone in this thread?
I'd be glad to kill myself again. LMK!
Crap! I'm doing Rusty's nefarious bidding again!
Forget I said anything.
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KSU recruiting and UT recruiting are pretty similar, imo. You can tell by the game last year that we have the same caliber of players as they do.
If Colt McCoy could have played it might have been different. It's too bad his shoulder turned into sand with one hit.
Freeman took hits all game and wasn't affected, so basically KSU recruiting > Texas recruiting.
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KSU recruiting and UT recruiting are pretty similar, imo. You can tell by the game last year that we have the same caliber of players as they do.
If Colt McCoy could have played it might have been different. It's too bad his shoulder turned into sand with one hit.
Freeman took hits all game and wasn't affected, so basically KSU recruiting > Texas recruiting.
Didn't he hurt his hand in that game?
Notice that after he left, and they took out Yamon, we only kicked a FG.
Mack Brown is a dirty coach.
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When 2* linebackers hit 5* QBs they just bounce off.
3* LBs make the tackle 30% of the time.
4* LBs - 50%.
5* LBs - 80%.
Of course those percentages are also affected by their strength and speed ratings. 5* LBs with 90+ speed and 90+ strength are totally dominant.
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KSU recruiting and UT recruiting are pretty similar, imo. You can tell by the game last year that we have the same caliber of players as they do.
If Colt McCoy could have played it might have been different. It's too bad his shoulder turned into sand with one hit.
Freeman took hits all game and wasn't affected, so basically KSU recruiting > Texas recruiting.
Didn't he hurt his hand in that game?
Notice that after he left, and they took out Yamon, we only kicked a FG.
Mack Brown is a dirty coach.
He smashed his hand onto a helmet on one of his throws and then he had to audible at the line and just QB sneak it in for a game. Then Dylan Meier was in for a tiny bit if you recall. But we did pass again, we threw to Jordy for the first down to seal the game..
Texas had a 4 star true freshman QB in just like we did when we were playing them. This Colt McCoy crap is a load of BS.
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KSU recruiting and UT recruiting are pretty similar, imo. You can tell by the game last year that we have the same caliber of players as they do.
If Colt McCoy could have played it might have been different. It's too bad his shoulder turned into sand with one hit.
Freeman took hits all game and wasn't affected, so basically KSU recruiting > Texas recruiting.
Didn't he hurt his hand in that game?
Notice that after he left, and they took out Yamon, we only kicked a FG.
Mack Brown is a dirty coach.
He smashed his hand onto a helmet on one of his throws and then he had to audible at the line and just QB sneak it in for a game. Then Dylan Meier was in for a tiny bit if you recall. But we did pass again, we threw to Jordy for the first down to seal the game..
Texas had a 4 star true freshman QB in just like we did when we were playing them. This Colt McCoy crap is a load of BS.
All I'm saying is that we didn't have anymore touchdown throws after that.
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Rivals = Paid professional crack smokers.
5 Star Vince Young vs. 2 star Dylan Meier. Who could have known which one was going to win a national championship and be a top 5 pick.
And seriously, who would have ever in a million years thought USC or Texas with a #1 Recruiting Class in the country had the talent to win a national title.
Stars totally are worthless.
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They rated Vince Young as the #1 player in the country. They pretty much &@#%ed that one up.
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You've got to be kidding me!!! Milo ran a 4.42 forty at the camp, is measured as a legit 6'3" and we haven't offered him. Not to mention that this kid loves us!
Prince. :curse:
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I am still laughing.
Yep, Snyder's great teams had entire starting lineups of 4 and 5 star guy, Travis Ochs-5 stars, Eric Hixson-4 stars, Gavin Peries-5 stars, Kevin Lockett-5 stars, Aaron Lockett-4 stars, Mike Lawrence-5 stars, Nyle Wiren-5 stars, Chad May-sure he signed with Cal State Northridge, but he was 5 stars out of High School.
Now if the entire recruiting class is 2 stars you guys may have a point, but right now it's just laughable at what little bitches some of you all are.
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They rated Vince Young as the #1 player in the country. They pretty much &*$@!ed that one up.
It took some real geniuses at Rivals to pick that one. :rolleyes: Even Bill Snyder gave Vince Young 5 stars.
That's the same Bill Snyder that only gave Josh Freeman 1 star.
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They rated Vince Young as the #1 player in the country. They pretty much &*$@!ed that one up.
It took some real geniuses at Rivals to pick that one. :rolleyes: Even Bill Snyder gave Vince Young 5 stars.
That's the same Bill Snyder that only gave Josh Freeman 1 star.
So then Prince is a sucky evaluator because Snyder thought Freeman sucked?
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So much for that "we're being more selective this year" talk from a month or so ago.
The Waffle House may not close, but I'd prefer ours have something to the equivalent of a "No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service" sign on the door.
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So then Prince is a sucky evaluator because Snyder thought Freeman sucked?
No. Try again.
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So then Prince is a sucky evaluator because Snyder thought Freeman sucked?
No. Try again.
Snyder is/was a sucky evaluator?
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It always cracks me up when people try to pretend Snyder only recruited a bunch of slouches that nobody else wanted and turned them in to superstars.
The reality is: Jeff Kelly, the best linebacker of the Snyder era was a JUCO All-American, Michael Bishop, the best QB of the Snyder era was a JUCO All-American, Quincy Morgan, in my opinion the best WR of the Snyde era was a JUCO All-American. Chris Canty, #2 best corner of the Snyder era was a parade All-American out of highschool, so was Josh Buhl. Ell Roberson was a parade All-American and Houston Player of the Year. Sproles, the best running back of the Snyder era, was the top player in Kansas and USA Today All-American.
Yes, Snyder had his fair share of Mark Simenaou's, but he also recruited some serious talent in his heyday and to say all we did was rely upon a bunch of unheard of guys that didn't have any other BCS offers during that run in the 90's is total BS.
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Kooky as it sounds, Carlos Alsup was rated higher than Darren Sproles by all the recruiting services.
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You all need to STFU until the season ends and then bitch.
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It's a lot easier to recruit top tier talent when you when 11 games a year.
I'm willing to bet that the majority of teams that won 7 or less games last year (exclude fsu and miami) aren't landing commits from 4 and 5* players.
We need to be patient, Snyder recruited great players when he had a great team to sell. Prince needs to get to that point, and I think he will be able to do it with the talent he has/is bringing in.
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It's a lot easier to recruit top tier talent when you when 11 games a year.
I'm willing to bet that the majority of teams that won 7 or less games last year (exclude fsu and miami) aren't landing commits from 4 and 5* players.
We need to be patient, Snyder recruited great players when he had a great team to sell. Prince needs to get to that point, and I think he will be able to do it with the talent he has/is bringing in.
But also consider the schedules Snyder put together.
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It always cracks me up when people try to pretend Snyder only recruited a bunch of slouches that nobody else wanted and turned them in to superstars.
The reality is: Jeff Kelly, the best linebacker of the Snyder era was a JUCO All-American, Michael Bishop, the best QB of the Snyder era was a JUCO All-American, Quincy Morgan, in my opinion the best WR of the Snyde era was a JUCO All-American. Chris Canty, #2 best corner of the Snyder era was a parade All-American out of highschool, so was Josh Buhl. Ell Roberson was a parade All-American and Houston Player of the Year. Sproles, the best running back of the Snyder era, was the top player in Kansas and USA Today All-American.
Yes, Snyder had his fair share of Mark Simenaou's, but he also recruited some serious talent in his heyday and to say all we did was rely upon a bunch of unheard of guys that didn't have any other BCS offers during that run in the 90's is total BS.
It always cracks me up when people try to say all those guys were surrounded by highly recruited guys . . . they weren't. Snyder's teams had 4 or 5 guys who were considered "studs" by the recruitniks, that's about it.
Lamark Brown wasn't a stud?? Gary Chandler isn't a stud??
Plus, Snyder waited until the last freaking minute to offer tons of guys, so to try and compare what a guys offer sheet looks like between the Prince and the Snyder era in June is a freaking joke.
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I always wonder if people think that the head coach actually plays a big role in all of this when they reference things like Prince's ability to evaluate talent, Mangino's keen eye for talent, or Snyder's nose for the diamond in the rough. I kinda think they do.
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dax,
Jeff Kelly was touted as a stud.
Rated No. 1 JuCo linebacker in the country by J.C. Gridwire
http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3069&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=810411 (http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3069&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=810411)
I still don't really care about stars though. This guy came to our camp and proved he was worth an offer. Some guys I question but he must have done something to impress the staff in person.
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dax,
Jeff Kelly was touted as a stud.
Rated No. 1 JuCo linebacker in the country by J.C. Gridwire
http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3069&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=810411 (http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3069&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=810411)
I still don't really care about stars though. This guy came to our camp and proved he was worth an offer. Some guys I question but he must have done something to impress the staff in person.
Yeah, and who started right next to Jeff Kelly?? Travis Ochs . . . when KSU signed him I thought it was a courtesy signing for the Ochs family.
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I always wonder if people think that the head coach actually plays a big role in all of this when they reference things like Prince's ability to evaluate talent, Mangino's keen eye for talent, or Snyder's nose for the diamond in the rough. I kinda think they do.
I wish we still had Venables :love:, M. Stoops, and Mangino as assistants.
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That is the biggest display of backpedaling I have ever seen, dax. Well done.
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1st, I've gotten past (way past) getting too caught up with star ratings and FB recruiting in general, though I'm not naive enough to believe that it doesn't matter. People who recruit more 4 and 5 star players are obviously getting more talent, though IMO 4 and 5 star in FB doesn't translate the same way in basketball, ie. FB 4 and 5 star kids aren't nearly as "sure" as they seem to be in basketball.
2nd, I'm not sure what we have to compare to considering the supposed reduction in 3 star players (and 4 and 5) this year and over the past few years by rivals. It might be arbitrary to compare to last year or year's past until several years down the road, similar to what it will be like comparing 3 PT % when they move the 3 PT line back in hoops. We'll have to see.
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GoPowercat user posted this on Wabash. Food for thought for the 2* crybabies:
Lousiville's 2003 and 2004 recruiting classes (Juniors/Seniors this season)...and this was before Rivals started to downgrade their star rankings.
38 - two star players
9 - three star players
3 - four star players
Petrino landed a couple of studs and surrounded them with fast players that best fit his system.
Sounds familiar...
Speed kills...
Posted on 6/28 8:40 AM | IP: Logged
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I feel proud that this thread reached 2 pages. It accomplished what I set out for it to accomplish.
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GoPowercat user posted this on Wabash.
Haven't read a lot of this thread but once you begin posting other peoples posts to back up your own posts you pretty much lose.
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GoPowercat user posted this on Wabash. Food for thought for the 2* crybabies:
Lousiville's 2003 and 2004 recruiting classes (Juniors/Seniors this season)...and this was before Rivals started to downgrade their star rankings.
38 - two star players
9 - three star players
3 - four star players
Petrino landed a couple of studs and surrounded them with fast players that best fit his system.
Sounds familiar...
Speed kills...
Posted on 6/28 8:40 AM | IP: Logged
And that would be why Petrino is in the NFL. The studs he got were just that, &@#%ing studs. Bush (4 stars), Brohm (4 stars), Urutia (3 stars but incredibly good). Do we have any players of that caliber? Will Prince turn out to be as good of an evaluator as Petrino was?
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GoPowercat user posted this on Wabash.
Haven't read a lot of this thread but once you begin posting other peoples posts to back up your own posts you pretty much lose.
Ok, that makes no sense at all. I scanned the Wabash and saw somebody found that Louisville landed a TON of 2* recruits and seemed to do pretty well if I remember correctly. Think about it. Was I looking for credit it? Nope, just pointing out an interesting FACT. :twobirds:
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GoPowercat user posted this on Wabash.
Haven't read a lot of this thread but once you begin posting other peoples posts to back up your own posts you pretty much lose.
Ok, that makes no sense at all. I scanned the Wabash and saw somebody found that Louisville landed a TON of 2* recruits and seemed to do pretty well if I remember correctly. Think about it. Was I looking for credit it? Nope, just pointing out an interesting FACT. :twobirds:
false
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GoPowercat user posted this on Wabash. Food for thought for the 2* crybabies:
Lousiville's 2003 and 2004 recruiting classes (Juniors/Seniors this season)...and this was before Rivals started to downgrade their star rankings.
38 - two star players
9 - three star players
3 - four star players
Petrino landed a couple of studs and surrounded them with fast players that best fit his system.
Sounds familiar...
Speed kills...
Posted on 6/28 8:40 AM | IP: Logged
And that would be why Petrino is in the NFL. The studs he got were just that, &*$@!ing studs. Bush (4 stars), Brohm (4 stars), Urutia (3 stars but incredibly good). Do we have any players of that caliber? Will Prince turn out to be as good of an evaluator as Petrino was?
Potentially: Josh Freeman, Chris Patterson, Lamark Brown, Leon Patton, Danny Hogan, Ernie Pierce, Gary Chandler. We shall see! It seems as if there are MANY people that already think he his a crappy evaluater of talent when the guy has been on the job to complete ONE full recruiting class. My point is people need to be more patient before they start bitching and moaning about his recruits.
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Please stop stealing premium information.
And BTW, Louisville's best player was Akoye. How many stars did he get?
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Please stop stealing premium information.
And BTW, Louisville's best player was Akoye. How many stars did he get?
How is that premium info????? Anybody has access to the recruiting rankings douche bag. BTW, OKOYE was a 2 STAR!!!!!!! :nutkick:
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Are you telling me that a 2 star prospect was selected in the top 10 of this year's NFL draft? How can this be possible? Terence Newman wants to know!
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This thread is a good example of why I can't wait for July 1st to arrive and Chico's reign of terror on cubs to begin...
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http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=12153.0
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:ohno:
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http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=12153.0
Nice! Did you compile that yourself? I started to look for something like that and didn't find much. Where did you get it and how far back did they go?
TIA
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http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=12153.0
Nice! Did you compile that yourself? I started to look for something like that and didn't find much. Where did you get it and how far back did they go?
TIA
That doesn't support an argument that stars don't matter. Isn't that what you were trying to say, plaincat?
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http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=12153.0
Nice! Did you compile that yourself? I started to look for something like that and didn't find much. Where did you get it and how far back did they go?
TIA
That doesn't support an argument that stars don't matter. Isn't that what you were trying to say, plaincat?
I was just asking where he found it because I had looked for it and found little.
You can be certain that if I did have all the past Rival's star rankings, I would be able to twist the numbers to fit my argument. ;)
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http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=12153.0
Nice! Did you compile that yourself? I started to look for something like that and didn't find much. Where did you get it and how far back did they go?
TIA
That doesn't support an argument that stars don't matter. Isn't that what you were trying to say, plaincat?
I was just asking where he found it because I had looked for it and found little.
You can be certain that if I did have all the past Rival's star rankings, I would be able to twist the numbers to fit my argument. ;)
I don't doubt it. GPC posters have been doing it for years..
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This thread is a good example of why I can't wait for July 1st to arrive and Chico's reign of terror on cubs to begin...
If I get bored I may consider the prospect of starting a Cub uprising. Dont' mess with us.
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There ARE anomalies, and there are plenty of them if you want to pick and choose over a 10 year period. The thing is, every school has them. There are success stories all over, even at schools like Miami, OU, Ohio State, Texas that will the majority of their classes with highly ranked talent, but still have players that weren’t as highly touted coming out of high school that became stars at the next level.
My argument is to not look at the aberrations like a Terrance Newman or John McGraw that buck the trend, but look at the big, cumulative picture. And when you do that, it becomes pretty clear, that the teams that the experts assess are recruiting at a high level based on cumulative, aggregate rankings, more often than not are the ones achieving the most, consistently, on the field success down the road.
What you really have to depend on to stay consistently at a high level and be in position for a National Title, is to recruit at a high level as well, and that means landing players that are highly coveted by other BCS programs.
As far as the NFL draft first round goes, for every one late blooming Terrence Newman there are 25 decorated high school all-Americans like Reggie Bush and Jamarcus Russell that comprise the majority.
Seriously, look at this breakdown of recruiting rankings alone in comparison with the NFL draft.
43 – Number of five and four star prospects in their high school class taken in the top 100 draft picks. Among the top 100 draft picks were 10 five-star prospects in their high school classes and 33 four-star prospects.
3.63 - Rivals.com's average star ranking for the first-round draft picks out of high school.
3.29 - Rivals.com's average star ranking for the top 100 draft picks out of high school.
Again, there are aberrations, but look at the big picture. It’s not just the recruitment of 1, 2 star. It’s when the majority of the class is comprised with them, that the cumulative rankings prove time and again that the margin for success becomes narrower and narrower.
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I do agree that this this staff needs to be in on more 3-5 star guys, however, we are also talking about rankings being done by an organization that has decided such things as "we won't have as many 3 star guys this year", "we won't have as many 4 star guys this year" . . . that's stuff that you find in corporations when it comes to employee ratings . . . "hey, you were great, but I already gave another guy a really high score, so I can't do the same for you".
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My argument is to not look at the aberrations like a Terrance Newman or John McGraw that buck the trend, but look at the big, cumulative picture. And when you do that, it becomes pretty clear, that the teams that the experts assess are recruiting at a high level based on cumulative, aggregate rankings, more often than not are the ones achieving the most, consistently, on the field success down the road.
You are absolutely correct. But who are the "experts?"
My argument is that the "experts" are earning 100K+ with huge budgets to work with and tremendous pressure to make correct judgements as currently employed college football coaches. They can't share their opinion with you due to NCAA rules. The decisions they make may be unpopular when they are made, but they dramatically impact their own success in the end.
Meanwhile the simplified star rankings that you rely on are produced by self-proclaimed "experts" with rudimentary football knowledge (please name one of them who played) working with tiny budgets and limited manpower. They may or may not randomly change their rankings to please sections of their subscriber base in an attempt to boost their miniscule revenues.
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so, everyone knows stars matter. So lets recruit nothing but 5 star guys. That'll solve all of our problems. Someone get on that. :blank:
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The Stars thing is a marketing genius.
Watching people really get on the stars thing makes the Rivals and Scout businesses happy.
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This is semi serious:
Could rivals/scout/ESPNinsider have any impact on a school's recruiting?
Let's say Arthur Brown wants to play with a lot of talent. Where does he go to evaluate talent of respective schools? Rivals or Scout. (I suppose some of the losers would look at espn).
If he sees a bunch of 2 stars at KSU, it doesn't seem like we're recruiting decent talent and he goes elsewhere. Maybe this has already been discussed on Wabash and is why people get so upset about "stars".
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This is semi serious:
Could rivals/scout/ESPNinsider have any impact on a school's recruiting?
Let's say Arthur Brown wants to play with a lot of talent. Where does he go to evaluate talent of respective schools? Rivals or Scout. (I suppose some of the losers would look at espn).
If he sees a bunch of 2 stars at KSU, it doesn't seem like we're recruiting decent talent and he goes elsewhere. Maybe this has already been discussed on Wabash and is why people get so upset about "stars".
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not but Stunner screamed that n Wabash for about a week.
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I haven't even been logged into gpc in like a month.
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The Stars thing is a marketing genius.
Watching people really get on the stars thing makes the Rivals and Scout businesses happy.
It's not so much stars IMO - it's offers.
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The Stars thing is a marketing genius.
Watching people really get on the stars thing makes the Rivals and Scout businesses happy.
It's not so much stars IMO - it's offers.
Prince just has that special knack for finding the diamonds in the rough. He's already found eight for this class in such a short amount of time. Can you believe it?
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Prince just has that special knack for finding the diamonds in the rough. He's already found eight for this class in such a short amount of time. Can you believe it?
I believe. :eyeseeyou:
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It's not so much stars IMO - it's offers.
I agree that a comparable offer list is ultimately a better indicator of talent than stars.
However, the vast majority of the time an impressive offer list and star ranking prove to not be mutually exclusive.
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Since we know Prince will yank scholarships later, what's the over/under on these guys making the final commit list?
I remember a midget or two we picked up last year that didn't make it.