KSUFans Archives
Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: fatty fat fat on April 23, 2007, 12:11:32 PM
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Records as starter/majority of big 12 games, defensive ppg given up
Bishop: 15-2 16.3
Beasley: 13-4 20.5
Roberson: 16-8 14.1
Meier: 0-4 31 Big 12 opponents record: 21-11
Webb: 3-4 33 23-25
Evridge: 1-5 32 25-23
Freeman: 4-3 29 25-31
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Just looking at those #s, Webb and Freeman look a little bit better. They didn't have nearly as good defenses to help them out. Of course, that could be because they can't sustain a drive or turn the ball over more, allowing opposing defenses more/an easier time for scoring.
Roberson looks inferior to Beasley when just looking at those numbers, too.
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Roberson couldn't win close games. cire is an idiot.
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Roberson lost 5 games by 16 points combined, in 3 years.
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Roberson couldn't win close games.
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Yeah, the lynch mob got gutted in several of those. But that's the QB's inability to win games.
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Yeah, the lynch mob got gutted in several of those. But that's the QB's inability to win games.
Records as starter/majority of big 12 games, defensive ppg given up
Bishop: 15-2 16.3
Roberson: 16-8 14.1
:confused:
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Roberson's Close Games
02
CU 31-35 L
UT 14-17 L
USC 20-27 W... Everyone knows mark dunn won that one. :)
ASU 34-27 W... ASU was 8-6 that year.
03
UT 20-24 L Deffinately Roberson's fault on that one... stupid fumble late in the game.
OSU 34-38 L
Buckeyes 28-35 L
Bishops Close games
97
Ohio 23-20 W
98
MU 31-25 W
TAMU 31-26 L :curse:
Purdue 34-37 L :jerkoff:
Roberson just had more close games.
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I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio.
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I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio.
why? I'm not look for the QB with the best stats, I'm looking for the QB with the best W/L record, and how his defense helped him.
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.
Roberson's Close Games
CU 31-35 L (twice inside the 10 yard line, &@#%ed up both)
UT 14-17 L (roberson's fault)
USC 20-27 W... Great win.
ASU 34-27 W... Great win.
03
UT 20-24 L E3's faults
OSU 34-38 L E3 didn't play well, defense didn't either.
Buckeyes 28-35 E3 didn't play well, defense didn't either.
Bishops Close games
97
Ohio 23-20 W
98
MU 31-25 W
TAMU 31-26 L :curse:
Purdue 34-37 L :jerkoff:
Umm...NU 40-30?
Roberson just had more close games.
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Roberson's Close Games
02
CU 31-35 L Defense
UT 14-17 L Brite
USC 20-27 W... Everyone knows mark dunn won that one. :)
ASU 34-27 W... ASU was 8-6 that year. Defense couldn't stop them for crap
03
UT 20-24 L Deffinately Roberson's fault on that one... stupid fumble late in the game. Defense couldn't stop VY, Brite/Mo Mack on the blocked punt for TD.
OSU 34-38 L Tatum Bell/Vernand Morrancy, ran for 200 yds(beginning of end of Mob)
Buckeyes 28-35 L
Bishops Close games
97
Ohio 23-20 W
98
MU 31-25 W
TAMU 31-26 L :curse:
Purdue 34-37 L :jerkoff:
Roberson just had more close games.
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Ell had the easiest schedules, best defenses. He really blew it.
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Additional Bishop Close game:
K-State 13 - Tech 2
It might have been a 11 point spread, but this one was down to the wire and saved by a young QB named Jonathan.
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Additional Bishop Close game:
K-State 13 - Tech 2
It might have been a 11 point spread, but this one was down to the wire and saved by a young QB named Jonathan.
sorry; I honestly don't remember that game... 16 at the time... and figured that since it wasn't within 1 posession that it wasn't close... mistake on my part.
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Ell had the easiest schedules, best defenses. He really blew it.
Yeah, if he would have only held onto the ball in the CCG. wait.
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again, i was only counting big 12 games.
records in games under 10 points
Bishop: 2-1
Beasley: 4-2
Roberson: 0-7 :crybaby:
Meier: 0-1
Webb: 1-2
Evridge: 1-2
Freeman: 2-0
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Roberson was never all there.
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Ell had the easiest schedules, best defenses. He really blew it.
Yeah, if he would have only held onto the ball in the CCG. wait.
Just as devastating, perhaps:
KANSAS STATE 20, TEXAS 17
...
K 1-10 T21 KANSAS STATE drive start at 10:41 (4th).
K 1-10 T21 Sproles, Darren rush over left end for 5 yards to the UT16 (Harris, Aaron).
K 2-5 T16 Roberson, Ell rush QBL to the UT12, fumble forced by Geiggar, P., fumble by
Roberson, Ell recovered by UT Geiggar, P. at UT12.
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If Roberson would have held them on the 3rd and long passes they completed they might have won.
again, i was only counting big 12 games.
records in games under 10 points
Bishop: 2-1
Beasley: 4-2
Roberson: 0-7 :crybaby:
Meier: 0-1
Webb: 1-2
Evridge: 1-2
Freeman: 2-0 :dancin: :cheers: :beerchug:
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Defense was AWESOME in the 2003 texas game.
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What is the argument, here? That Ell was a better QB than Bishop? :eek:
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Anyone talking crap on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &@#%ing moon.
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Anyone talking @#%$ on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &*$@!ing moon.
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Anyone talking @#%$ on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &*$@!ing moon.
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I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio.
why? I'm not look for the QB with the best stats, I'm looking for the QB with the best W/L record, and how his defense helped him.
So the defense is relevant but how much the QB helps/hurts his own cause isn't?
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Yea more points were given up with Freeman here but how many were a direct result of his turnovers, i.e. the ku game. I don't think you can blame those on the D. When ku had drives in that game w/o a TO to help them the defense eventually turned them over.
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Anyone talking @#%$ on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &*$@!ing moon.
Huh?
Bishop fumbled a lot during the season. He was able to come back and win it. Bishop not fumble in critical play in fourth quarter against Aggies, and KSU goes to the NC game and wins it.
At some point, it catches up to you. Bishop v. Roberson is a stupid argument because Bishop was more physical and had a better supporting cast. KSU scored 627 points that season, almost an NCAA record for that year.
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The moral of this story is that Roberson was only successful because he was on a damn good team.
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Anyone talking @#%$ on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &*$@!ing moon.
Huh?
Bishop fumbled a lot during the season. He was able to come back and win it. Bishop not fumble in critical play in fourth quarter against Aggies, and KSU goes to the NC game and wins it.
At some point, it catches up to you. Bishop v. Roberson is a stupid argument because Bishop was more physical and had a better supporting cast. KSU scored 627 points that season, almost an NCAA record for that year.
Strange emotional attachment to a player. Honestly I think they are player, and think that Bishop gets all the love because his team put KSU on the map while Roberson put them on the map for the hotel incedent. On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years, I just feel that Roberson doesn't get any credit for what he accomplished because folks are obsessed with Michael Bishop.
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Strange emotional attachment to a player. Honestly I think they are player, and think that Bishop gets all the love because his team put KSU on the map while Roberson put them on the map for the hotel incedent. On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years, I just feel that Roberson doesn't get any credit for what he accomplished because folks are obsessed with Michael Bishop.
Who said Roberson doesn't get any credit? You were talking sh*t on Bishop for a single fumble. That's ludicrous.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e379/not_michele/cvntpunt.jpg)
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Anyone talking @#%$ on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &*$@!ing moon.
Huh?
Bishop fumbled a lot during the season. He was able to come back and win it. Bishop not fumble in critical play in fourth quarter against Aggies, and KSU goes to the NC game and wins it.
At some point, it catches up to you. Bishop v. Roberson is a stupid argument because Bishop was more physical and had a better supporting cast. KSU scored 627 points that season, almost an NCAA record for that year.
Strange emotional attachment to a player. Honestly I think they are player, and think that Bishop gets all the love because his team put KSU on the map while Roberson put them on the map for the hotel incedent. On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years, I just feel that Roberson doesn't get any credit for what he accomplished because folks are obsessed with Michael Bishop.
I'm not emotionally attached to Bishop or Roberson. The simple matter of fact is to look at statistics, look at film, look at the schedule, and then evaluate based on the various scenarios. The only thing Roberson did better than Bishop was win a Big 12 Championship. He'd lead Bishop and Beasley in the regard.
If you watch Bishop v. Roberson, and compare them, they both did great jobs of leading their teams. Watching Bishop though, and you'll see a much more gifted athlete and watching him bowl over Nebraska defensive linemen, or other players simply is amazing. His will to win games was incredible.
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Bishop Career Passing Stats:
Passing efficiency: 147.6
Att Comp Int's TD's Games Played
480 244 12 36 23
Roberson Career Passing Stats:
Passing efficiency: 128.3
Att Comp Int's TD's Games Played
628 307 26 37 41
Roberson played in 18 more games than Bishop, yet he only threw one more touchdown. Whoever was whining about wanting to see stats, here they are. Bishop owns Roberson.
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Anyone talking @#%$ on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &*$@!ing moon.
Huh?
Bishop fumbled a lot during the season. He was able to come back and win it. Bishop not fumble in critical play in fourth quarter against Aggies, and KSU goes to the NC game and wins it.
At some point, it catches up to you. Bishop v. Roberson is a stupid argument because Bishop was more physical and had a better supporting cast. KSU scored 627 points that season, almost an NCAA record for that year.
On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years
No, they were drastically differeent. Bishop = Tough and Strong; Roberson = Fast and Finesse.
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I always forget that beasley was actually good.
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Strange emotional attachment to a player. Honestly I think they are player, and think that Bishop gets all the love because his team put KSU on the map while Roberson put them on the map for the hotel incedent. On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years, I just feel that Roberson doesn't get any credit for what he accomplished because folks are obsessed with Michael Bishop.
Who said Roberson doesn't get any credit? You were talking sh*t on Bishop for a single fumble. That's ludicrous.
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e379/not_michele/cvntpunt.jpg)
No one gives Roberson Credit. His numbers are very similar to Bishop's. Bishop fumbled on the biggest stage that ksu has been on ever, and will in all likelyhood never get to again. Roberson set records on the biggest stage that he was on.
my other post was towards rusty MJ, I am in more agreement with you.
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No one gives Roberson Credit. His numbers are very similar to Bishop's. Bishop fumbled on the biggest stage that ksu has been on ever, and will in all likelyhood never get to again. Roberson set records on the biggest stage that he was on.
my other post was towards rusty MJ, I am in more agreement with you.
Are you one of those dumbcraps that gives ku crap for losing to Syracuse in the National Title game?
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Roberson's numbers aren't close to Bishops. The only reason they even seem to be is because of the 15 game season.
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Additional Bishop Close game:
K-State 13 - Tech 2
It might have been a 11 point spread, but this one was down to the wire and saved by a young QB named Jonathan.
Beasley saved KSU's ass that game, because Bishop couldn't do $hit.
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The moral of this story is that Roberson was only successful because he was on a damn good team.
LOL. No. ABAcire.
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Roberson's numbers aren't close to Bishops. The only reason they even seem to be is because of the 15 game season.
He was hurt for 2 and a half games if that makes a diff. And had a 1900 yd runningback to split the yards with. I'd say his stats were pretty incredible.
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No one gives Roberson Credit. His numbers are very similar to Bishop's. Bishop fumbled on the biggest stage that ksu has been on ever, and will in all likelyhood never get to again. Roberson set records on the biggest stage that he was on.
my other post was towards rusty MJ, I am in more agreement with you.
Roberson fumbled/threw interceptions in so many games that he didn't even get to "biggest stage" (UT in '02, UT and OSU in '03 and almost lost the USC game in '02 because he fumbled). I'd take Bishop over Roberson, but isn't saying that Roberson wasn't fantastic.
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...almost lost the USC game in '02 because he fumbled...
[devils advocate]Wasn't that the bull crap fumble on the 3 yard line where forward progress stopped for like 5 seconds, his knee was on the ground yet there was no whistle until a USC linbacker ripped the ball from his hands after the play was clearly not going any further? [/devils advocate]
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I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio.
why? I'm not look for the QB with the best stats, I'm looking for the QB with the best W/L record, and how his defense helped him.
So the defense is relevant but how much the QB helps/hurts his own cause isn't?
No, because stats outside of WINS and POINTS (to a lesser extent) are very misleading.
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All three players (ya, i'm throwin the Beas in there) were very different in their styles of play, and once Snyder figured out their strengths all of them were great winners.
Bishop-all around amazing athlete, best arm (by far), awesome power and speed. The rockets he threw sometimes made me think how a person can throw a ball that hard. Winners attitude like nothing we've seen in purple.
Beasley-great short yardage runner (avg like 4 yds/carry on qb sneaks) threw the best long ball of all of them, smart player, limited turnovers, also had quincy morgan to throw to
Roberson-fastest of all of them, probably best option qb, good arm, lacked accuracy, more finesse than power, and had a decent compliment at RB.
I'll still take Bishop over the other two tho....
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I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio.
why? I'm not look for the QB with the best stats, I'm looking for the QB with the best W/L record, and how his defense helped him.
So the defense is relevant but how much the QB helps/hurts his own cause isn't?
No, because stats outside of WINS and POINTS (to a lesser extent) are very misleading.
You should just stick with wins/losses. Touchdowns count as points, IIRC and some of Freeman's turnovers (like most turnovers) put the defense in bad positions, therefore giving up more points. See ku game as a prime example.
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I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio.
why? I'm not look for the QB with the best stats, I'm looking for the QB with the best W/L record, and how his defense helped him.
So the defense is relevant but how much the QB helps/hurts his own cause isn't?
No, because stats outside of WINS and POINTS (to a lesser extent) are very misleading.
You should just stick with wins/losses. Touchdowns count as points, IIRC and some of Freeman's turnovers (like most turnovers) put the defense in bad positions, therefore giving up more points. See ku game as a prime example.
Yeah, I could use "defensive ppg" given up, but you'd think that would even up over a 10+ game period, and that's tough to do.
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People are upset with Roberson because his laziness kept us out of several national title games. We were only like seven wins away or something like that. Roberson also had one of the strongest arms in history. He threw the ball 97 yards in practice.
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Roberson also had one of the strongest arms in history. He threw the ball 97 yards in practice.
wasnt that Bishop? or did they both do it, bc i know i heard of Bishop doing that once
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Bishop threw it 97 yards in practice.
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People are upset with Roberson because his laziness kept us out of several national title games. We were only like seven wins away or something like that. Roberson also had one of the strongest arms in history. He threw the ball 97 yards in practice.
Beating USC twice was good enough for us.
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i wonder if all the folks bringing up bishop's fumbles remember ell roberson's 12 interceptiosn and 8 fumbles in 2003?
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Anyone seriously arguing that Bishop had a better surrounding cast than Roberson needs their head checked.
Offesnive Skill Positions:
Roberson- Sproles (BY FAR the single greatest season a KSU running back has ever had 1,986 yards 16 TDs 6.49 YPC!!!), Thomas Hill, Brian Casey, James Terry (1,232 yards is a single season school record and 13TD), Ayo Saba and Travis Wilson (perhaps the best blocking Fullback in KSU history).
Bishop's help on Offense: ('98 season) Aaron Lockett (928 yards 6TDs), Darnell McDonald (1,092 yards 9TDs) Eric Hickson (169 attempts for 902 yards ? on TDs), David Allen (returner extraordinaire! Running Back mediocre), Frank Murphy, Brian Goolsby, Justin Swift, Martin Grammatica?, Aaron Lockett
Bishop had a really good reciever. He had a mediocre running back corps. He had an NFL tight end that was never used. He had a mediocre blocking fullback. Aaron Lockett's precipitous statistical decline after Bishop's departure (pre-2001 West Side KO) was not a coincidence.
Ell had a running back that put up Heisman-esque numbers. He had the best single season yardage performance by a WR in KSU history. He had three highly touted FBs. He had Thomas Hill/Brian Casey (and Trevon Magee).
It's not even close.
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swift had a huge year for bishop.
bishop made swift and lockett.
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It is really hard to try to compile stats from media guides. I have the 1998 one. I have the 2004 one. I'm missing some key media guides in between.
The good news is I still have my 2001-2002 K-State Women's B-ball Media Guide!!!!!111YAY!!!1
Any help on Swift's '98 numbers?
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http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3063
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http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3063
1998?
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for 1998 just us assume us infinity, them zero.
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http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3063
1998?
You said you had the media guide.
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http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3063
1998?
You said you had the media guide.
Yes, but the 1998 media guide was not printed on clairvoyant paper.
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oh yeah.
crap
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Bishop threw it 97 yards in practice.
No. It was 93 yards. I swear on my Athlon preview magazine.