Author Topic: So what did this game tell us?  (Read 15816 times)

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Offline nicname

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So what did this game tell us?
« on: November 24, 2010, 12:19:29 AM »
Looking back on the game the thing that really stood out to me was Duke's depth and talent in the backcourt.  It is going to be asking a lot for Jake to guard the opponents top guard every night and run the team as well.  Fortunately, there are very few (read: zero) teams with a backcourt like Duke.  Gonzaga had good guards, and so did VT and we were fine against them. 

Even so, we really need to have either Spradling or Martavious step up and develope into a true B12 pg.  We will struggle with Jake leading the point, at least against the elite teams.  Sprads was exposed a bit tonight, but I thought that Martavious played pretty well on both ends.  Obviously it helps to hit shots, and going 3-17 from deep doesn't bode well against any team, but against the better teams we will need to create more openings for our guys to hit open looks from deep.  Duke did a great job of not allowing Jake or Spradling any room to shoot.  McGruder had some wonderful open looks but failed to convert.  This goes back to the PG thing, someone needs to be the lead guard so Jake can run off screens and get open or we will struggle.

I also think that JYCing (fouls, not Orebs etc) up a game against a team like Duke will usually prove ineffective.  The freethrow +/- will just be too great to overcome.  The Devils outscored KSU by 13 points from the line and they won the game by 14.  Still, I thought the frontcourt players were very effective against Duke.  CK proved he is one of the best (though he did seem to have trouble holding onto the ball) and Jamar was resilient as well.  Asprilla, was pretty much Colon II tonight.  We were 2 to 1 on the offensive boards and had an Oreb% of 39%, that is really good against a good Duke front court.  We out rebounded the Devils 36-29 as well.

We also cannot turn the ball over like we did tonight.  Again, I think this had just as much to do with Duke's talented guards as our guys making poor plays.  Martavious was a bright spot here and I am pleased to see his effort against top competition.  Though it really has little to do with his ability, I think that Cats will struggle if Russell is starting and gets mig minutes along side Jake.  Either Spradling or MArtavious must take over as the PG for KSU to be successful.

Also, I don't thing it was an effort thing, or a big head thing, I think Irving is just better than Jake.  He is our guy but Irving would be in the NBA right now if he were allowed.  I must be a truly humbling experience for Jake and I'm interested in his comments on the subject.

Feel free to add to the discussion. 



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If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2010, 12:20:58 AM »
a loss like this does nothing but re-affirm the shitty and non-shitty posters.

Offline doom

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2010, 12:21:47 AM »
The CHOF made itself into a joke the day Dicky V was inducted?
“They said something along the lines of ‘it kind of sounds like you’d be interested in it.’ And I said ‘hell yeah I am. Why not?’” -Doug Gottlieb

Offline nicname

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2010, 12:23:13 AM »
a loss like this does nothing but re-affirm the shitty and non-shitty posters.

It's posts like this that make me feel very  :ohno: about myself. 
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline CHONGS

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2010, 12:25:34 AM »
a loss like this does nothing but re-affirm the shitty and non-shitty posters.

It's posts like this that make me feel very  :ohno: about myself. 
You should be....

Offline AzCat

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2010, 12:26:07 AM »
So what did this game tell us?

Duke >>> KSU.
Pullen is not an AA.
The 'Cats will pee down their collective leg in big games.

 :ck:

Offline Pendergast

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2010, 12:27:15 AM »
He is our guy but Irving would be in the NBA right now if he were allowed.  I must be a truly humbling experience for Jake and I'm interested in his comments on the subject. 

Give me you average player from the rec, put him in front of the "NBA talent" and tell him if he doesn't stay between him and the basket you'll remove his balls...


Irving would have had half his points, and maybe one or two additional assists, and one or two more turnovers.  Bad defensive strategy to body up Usain freaking Bolt.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 12:28:58 AM »
Irving needs more minutes.

Asprilla needs less.

McGruder played like dogshit and had a decent stat line with the exception of the horrible shooting.

Trying to decide if I like a Kelly/Samuels combo coming off of the bench at the under four timeout to shield them from early BS fouls and get more minutes out of them as a whole.

Offline CatsFan_58

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2010, 12:39:19 AM »
we aren't "big time."  :bawl:

Offline EMAWzified

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2010, 12:39:30 AM »
Asprilla has some weird can't-finish-at-the-rim syndrome.
Sometimes, it's wise to play off someone, at least until that someone proves he can nail an outside shot.
Long-limbed defenders contesting early threes kind of threw us off for the night
This summer's Irving haters were fools.
Samuels seems to have found his fire
Frank needs metal court boards.

Offline Cire

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2010, 12:44:15 AM »
pullen is way overrated.  Kelly is the most talented player on the team.

Offline nicname

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 12:56:29 AM »
pullen is way overrated.  Kelly is the most talented player on the team.

He may be a bit overrated, but I think he was improperly utilized tonight.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Cire

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 01:04:43 AM »
pullen is way overrated.  Kelly is the most talented player on the team.

He may be a bit overrated, but I think he was improperly utilized tonight.

ok

Offline kstatefreak42

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2010, 01:49:01 AM »
Curtis Kelly is back.

Jake will not perform that poorly the rest of the year.

Martavious Irving needs to play a little more. He has had a consistent jump shot and really hasn't made a lot of mistakes.


Season is young. Still a lot of time for our team to progress and be ready for conference play.
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Offline WildCatzPhreak

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2010, 03:06:32 AM »
Concur.  Jake got his crap handed to him defensively and offensively.  It seemed like he was a step slow tonight, but that's probably because Irving is that fast.   Duke absolutely blanketed him, never giving him the light of day.  He forced a lot of bad shots up, and it shows on the stat sheet.  After this game and the KU games last year, it seems apparent that against guards who are elite athletes, Jake needs to play off the ball to get good looks.  The few open looks he did get tonight came off of screens.  For the most part though Jake was a huge liability in this game, which should never happen to a senior all american.  It seems like he never drives the ball or draws fouls like he used to, always settling for the deep or contested 3 these days.

Spradling was exposed against these elite athletic guards as well.

Rodney wasn't sinking the shots he normally makes, but was getting us a lot of extra possessions on the boards.

I was satisfied with Jamar's play.  He's getting back into form, went aggressively to the basket, and played decent defense on Singler for a while. 

Kelly had a hard time securing the ball, but when he did have a good hold on it he was scoring well.  His defense was decent too.

Nick was executing well offensively, and getting into passing lanes defensively, but overall his defense was mediocre - he had some bad fouls.

Overall I'd like to see our halfcourt offense run more through Curtis and Jamar than our guards jacking up long or contested 3's.  Those quick treys work for us in transition and when a guard is open, but I like our chances of scoring much more when we get Curtis and Jamar going aggressively to the basket and drawing fouls.  If the defense collapses on them, kick it back out to whichever guard is left open.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 03:23:30 AM by WildCatzPhreak »

Offline sys

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 03:11:58 AM »
kelly's back.  irving (k.) is one rough ridin' amazing player.
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Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 03:22:30 AM »
Kelly having a great offensive game is probably the best thing outta the night. If he ever learns to hold on to the damn ball, he'll be in great shape. This loss is a good thing imo.
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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2010, 05:19:54 AM »
this is how we're going to look when we play kansas.   

Offline kitten_mittons

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 06:33:51 AM »
Wow, team Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) blowing this game out of proportion.  We didn't take good shots, didn't shoot well from the stripe, made a lot of dumbass turnovers.  Now, granted a lot of that was Duke playing great defense, but we don't play a game that poorly for the rest of the season.

As for Russel, he played a pretty good offensive game, but I felt bad for the guy.  Pullen kept getting beat to the basket by (insert any Duke guard here) and Russel got 3 or 4 of his fouls trying to help out.

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 06:36:32 AM »
Don't think we learned much this early.  A few things we already knew were confirmed.  Pullen is a disaster on both sides of the ball when he is off, this team probably won't win without transition baskets, Jamar seems to be playing better, but still refuses to take it strong, Rodney missing shots = not good, and Wally should be taken out right after he secures the opening tip because that is pretty much all he is good for.   :ksu:

Offline michigancat

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2010, 07:25:12 AM »
this is how we're going to look when we play kansas.   

Offline kstater

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2010, 07:26:56 AM »
I learned that Duke is pretty darn good.  The Cats aren't as good as Duke.  Not much else to take from it.

Offline wabash909

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2010, 07:46:37 AM »
I learned that Duke will proably win a National Championship and we won't.

Texas Christian University coach Gary Patterson has been hired as Kansas State's 34th football coach, multiple sources have confirmed to GoPowercat.com.  Patterson replaces Ron Prince, who was fired Wednesday. - Tim Fitzgerald   Nov, 7, 2008

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2010, 08:04:40 AM »
I learned if 2 of your best back court players have really bad games offensively then its going to be really tough to win. Did Duke cause a lot of Jake and Rodney's problems? Yes, but they also just missed several shots they usually make.

Also, K had a better plan than Frank and his players executed better. It happens, but I'm certain we'll have a different plan if we met them again.

Duke is the best team in the country, we are Top 10 and can still be a Final 4 team.

Good to see Martavious, Samuels, and Kelly have solid games.

Offline CHONGS

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Re: So what did this game tell us?
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2010, 08:12:09 AM »
I think we saw the talent ceiling on the team last night.  We can still be a very good team, but it will take an amazing effort to be in the same class as the Duke-type teams this year.  I don't think its a huge surprise that we will have to play out of our minds to beat a team like that. 

This year's squad still has a fantastic chance to be better than last year.