Author Topic: The Royals  (Read 4788903 times)

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Offline mocat

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43675 on: August 14, 2015, 12:54:57 PM »
i haven't seen enough consistency from hoch for him to be the closer, but i agree 100% on your 8th/9th view. The only thing i would add is that you have a little time to correct a mistake in the 8th, but if you F up the 9th, it's usually game over

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43676 on: August 14, 2015, 12:56:17 PM »
If he's moved out of the closer role, he might as well move to garbage man. Drop Chris Young, let one of the September call ups take Young's spot, and make Holland the guy who comes in in games where the lead is 5 or more one way or the other

Quote
An analysis of Holland’s struggles – he finished Thursday evening with a 4.15 ERA – does not require an advanced degree in rocket science. He’s lost about 2 mph on his fastball. With less life on the heater, hitters can lay off his offspeed with more confidence. In addition, his command has suffered. Even before Thursday’s debacle, Holland was walking nearly five batters per nine.

In theory, the Royals could remove Holland from the closer’s role. I doubt they will. In addition, as we’ve also written before, it doesn’t matter what inning Holland pitches in. You can blow a lead in the seventh as easily as you can blow a lead in the ninth.

The most critical issue for the Royals is fixing Holland so he can find his All-Star form from previous years. His excellence was critical to their October run last year, and the club was constructed in 2015 depending on his ability in the late innings. His revival is vital to their chances.
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb/kansas-city-royals/article31073844.html#storylink=cpy

Offline millertime

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43677 on: August 14, 2015, 02:45:36 PM »
The advantage we would get from flipping wade and greg is when Cueto goes 8 scoreless in the postseason and we put Wade out there for the 9th to protect our 2-0 lead.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43678 on: August 14, 2015, 02:46:49 PM »
If Greg changes roles, it won't be the 8th. Quit being stupid people sheesh.

Offline Powercat Posse

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43679 on: August 14, 2015, 02:51:15 PM »
Its not Wade vs. Greg, because the 8th inning guy is just as valuable as the 9th inning guy, maybe more because of the way they use him in games where we're behind a run, or tied. If Holland is pulled from the 9th role, flipping him and Wade is pointless. If Holland moves, he needs to flip roles with Hochevar.

They or should I say Ned won't do this, but moving Holland to Herrera's role would be best.   Then Herrera and Davis are the 8th/9th inning guys.  Ned is too loyal, and just like Rios making 11M and playing everyday, the Royals are going to keep their 8.2M closer in his role.

To me, Holly just tries too hard to strike out each batter.  If he gets a strike on them, he tries to throw a pitch he thinks they will chase.  Most times, those pitches aren't close.  Then he throws another pitch just like it.  His other big issue is missing his spots on the fastball and he gets behind 2-0, 3-1 on the hitter. Most of the pitches Wade gets hitters to swing & miss are either strikes or barely off the plate.

Hoch hasn't shown enough.  He just broke out of a funk where he allowed 16-17 base runners over a 9.0 stretch.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43680 on: August 14, 2015, 02:56:13 PM »
Dude. If Holland can't be the guy in the 9th, he shouldn't be the guy in 7th of a close game either. Ned's not going to change until forced, so we'll see how Holland does the rest of the month

Offline Powercat Posse

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43681 on: August 14, 2015, 03:11:20 PM »
It's not a wind-up vs stretch thing like Ventura, but....

Holland with runners on base-- allows .429 OBP
Holland with RISP -- allows .487 OBP
And #7-9 hitters in Opp lineup -- .390 OBP

No shocker, but Wade....
.115 ave with runners on.  Only 7-61 with 1 lousy double (last night)
.182 OBP allowed with runners on base
.182 OBP with RISP

** with none on base, Wade (.243) and Holly (.282) OBP

« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 03:14:22 PM by Powercat Posse »

Offline j-dub

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43682 on: August 14, 2015, 03:13:20 PM »
my advocating for wade to pitch the ninth is in no way advocating for greg to pitch the 8th, at this point. a few months ago it was obvious that wade was simply better, but greg was still good. now he's just bad and unreliable.

i'm hoping either greg puts the pieces back together or we bring up zimmer or almonte or put yordano in the pen if he can't handle starting.

i don't want current greg pitching in close games right now. not even a little bit.
"I started calling him John during the game, cause he was rocking it like No. 7 -- like Elway," Harper said."

Offline mocat

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43683 on: August 14, 2015, 03:15:33 PM »
my advocating for wade to pitch the ninth is in no way advocating for greg to pitch the 8th, at this point. a few months ago it was obvious that wade was simply better, but greg was still good. now he's just bad and unreliable.

we are in 100% agreement. the only thing we differed on "back then" was that wade being better did not mean they should have switch roles.

Offline j-dub

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43684 on: August 14, 2015, 03:24:46 PM »
my advocating for wade to pitch the ninth is in no way advocating for greg to pitch the 8th, at this point. a few months ago it was obvious that wade was simply better, but greg was still good. now he's just bad and unreliable.

we are in 100% agreement. the only thing we differed on "back then" was that wade being better did not mean they should have switch roles.

 :D #buds
"I started calling him John during the game, cause he was rocking it like No. 7 -- like Elway," Harper said."

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43685 on: August 14, 2015, 03:44:26 PM »
my advocating for wade to pitch the ninth is in no way advocating for greg to pitch the 8th, at this point. a few months ago it was obvious that wade was simply better, but greg was still good. now he's just bad and unreliable.

i'm hoping either greg puts the pieces back together or we bring up zimmer or almonte or put yordano in the pen if he can't handle starting.

i don't want current greg pitching in close games right now. not even a little bit.

Well buckle up. Because he's going to be for a while. Best thing for all of us is to pray for a Greg Holland miracle

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43686 on: August 14, 2015, 03:45:56 PM »
I think we'll get Greg Holland miracles more often than we don't.

Offline sys

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43687 on: August 14, 2015, 04:08:54 PM »
i wonder if guthrie would be a badass like davis and hoch if they made him a reliever.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43688 on: August 14, 2015, 04:14:56 PM »
i wonder if guthrie would be a badass like davis and hoch if they made him a reliever.

it would resemble this:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/3926/year/2014/oscar-chen

Offline sys

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43689 on: August 14, 2015, 04:22:27 PM »
guthrie can throw 93-94 when he wants to go full out.  maybe could bump up to even 95-96 in a one-inning situ.  his stuff is closer to davis/hoch than it is to chen.  his command is a little shaky, but he generally does pretty well in the first inning of his starts.

i'm not sure he'd get the same boost in effectiveness that davis did (who has?), but he's got some of the same characteristics.  and i'm talking about turning him into a one-inning guy, not another long reliever.  i don't think he'd be anything like chen.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43690 on: August 14, 2015, 04:30:50 PM »
Its too late in the year to experiment with a guy like Guts. I don't think they, or any other team will ever try it.

Offline sys

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43691 on: August 14, 2015, 04:44:46 PM »
Its too late in the year to experiment with a guy like Guts. I don't think they, or any other team will ever try it.

they probably won't, but they should.  he's very likely going to be on the playoff roster, and he'd be much more valuable as a really good one-inning guy than as a mediocre long relief guy.  i don't think he'd need some long adjustment period.  just throw him out a couple of times in september (not now, while they need his starting innings) to see what happens.  if it doesn't work, no big deal, you don't lose anything.  if it does, then you just got another playoff one-inning guy.  it does seem to work with a lot of mediocre starters.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline wetwillie

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43692 on: August 14, 2015, 04:46:34 PM »
Teach greg to throw a knuckle ball.  Problem solved.
When the bullets are flying, that's when I'm at my best

Offline CHONGS

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43693 on: August 14, 2015, 04:50:37 PM »
Oh man what if the Mets get to the play the Royals in the WS? Oh BOY!

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43694 on: August 14, 2015, 05:21:32 PM »
Its too late in the year to experiment with a guy like Guts. I don't think they, or any other team will ever try it.

they probably won't, but they should.  he's very likely going to be on the playoff roster, and he'd be much more valuable as a really good one-inning guy than as a mediocre long relief guy.  i don't think he'd need some long adjustment period.  just throw him out a couple of times in september (not now, while they need his starting innings) to see what happens.  if it doesn't work, no big deal, you don't lose anything.  if it does, then you just got another playoff one-inning guy.  it does seem to work with a lot of mediocre starters.

yeah but IMO there are other guys who would be more valuable in the pen in the post season (Zimmer, Almonte) and Guts should just stay put pitching every 5th day.

I bet he doesn't make the post season roster anyway. My guess would be this:

C
Sal
Buetera

INF
Hos
Moose
Escobar
Infante
Morales

OF
Gordon
Cain
Dyson
Rios
Zobrist

SP
Cueto
Volquez
Duffy
Ventura

RP
Morales
Holland
Herrera
Medlen
Davis
Madson
Hochevar

Last 2 spots will be some combo of Gore/Orlando/Young/Almonte/Zimmer

I'd guess Gore + 1 other relief pitcher. Young and Guts cheer from the bench.

Offline sys

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43695 on: August 14, 2015, 06:11:43 PM »
gotta have gore (for me, probably don't have to have him in terms of value).  i don't think there's any chance young isn't on the roster unless he just falls apart in september.

you're right it doesn't look like there's probably a spot for guthrie.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43696 on: August 14, 2015, 06:25:22 PM »
This picture makes me feel a lot better guys. 

https://twitter.com/jsleezer/status/632330562917801984

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43697 on: August 14, 2015, 06:28:24 PM »
OMG  :love:

Offline slobber

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43698 on: August 14, 2015, 06:52:06 PM »
How many games did Hola d pitch in before his injury. Were those results better?


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Offline Canary

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Re: The Royals
« Reply #43699 on: August 14, 2015, 07:10:01 PM »
This picture makes me feel a lot better guys. 

https://twitter.com/jsleezer/status/632330562917801984
That's a cool pic and friendship.