New $600 billion dollar spending spree!

[Rage Against the McKee]

China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy

Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.

Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?

How did you feel the moment you realized you were fully on board with Chinese policy?

If only we were as capitalist as the Chinese. . .  

Yeah, they've got it great.

They own us.

Cheap, unregulated labor is great, as long as you aren't the one providing the labor.

[Sugar Dick]

China able to persuade G-20 that US QE2 is stupid, bad for global economy

Talks among G-20 leaders concluded, however, by the close of the discussions, any deal to address economic imbalances was shelved, because there is disagreement among the participants as to what is driving the imbalances globally and what role other variables, like currencies, play in such gaps. The issue has dominated the summit, as members are hoping to prevent what has been christened a "currency war" leading up to the meeting, and to build upon the agreement to not pursue competitive currency devaluations that came following the group's October gathering. The US has pushed for the Chinese currency, the yuan, also known as the renminbi, to appreciate more, however China has been able to gain support in its stance that the U.S. isn't living up to its responsibility as an issuer of a global reserve currency and obligation to stabilize capital markets by pursuing more quantitative easing.

Has anyone else noticed that the only news that helps our Stock market lately, is news about how well or poorly China is doing?

How did you feel the moment you realized you were fully on board with Chinese policy?

If only we were as capitalist as the Chinese. . .  

Yeah, they've got it great.

They own us.

Cheap, unregulated labor is great, as long as you aren't the one providing the labor.

Maybe they should pangea their country closer to Mexico.  Boom times ahead!!!!

[AzCat]

German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566

Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!

Not as much as the United States.   


Everyone in this thread should probably start   Would up your IQs on the subject a LOT.

[theKSU]

You're worried what China thinks?  The country that pours it's own currency into the market to peg the Yuan to the Dollar?  Of course they're upset.. this means they have to be even more inflationary to keep their imports so high.  There's a lot of reasons why other countries hate what we're doing, but it may be in our best interests. 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

You're worried what China thinks?  The country that pours it's own currency into the market to peg the Yuan to the Dollar?  Of course they're upset.. this means they have to be even more inflationary to keep their imports so high.  There's a lot of reasons why other countries hate what we're doing, but it may be in our best interests. 

We have gotten ourselves into a situation in which we must care what China thinks. They could crush our economy. Granted, it would not be to their benefit at this point, but a trillion dollars in treasury bonds, or a portion there of, dumped on the market would not be good. They are in a better position to absorb the dramatic fall of the dollar than we are. Not saying they would do it, just that the threat is always there.

[reidrolled]

German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566

Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!

Not as much as the United States.   


Everyone in this thread should probably start   Would up your IQs on the subject a LOT.

I dont see how that will up any ones IQ about quantitative easing or the scope of the situation in any way.
I will agree that the Fed reacted too little too late when it comes to lowering interest rates in 2008.  in late 2008, when the crap was really starting to hit the fan, if it wasnt for quantitative easing and aggressive lending programs we would be sitting in some serious deflation right now.  As for the QE2, i really dont think anyone has a firm grip on what will really happen. When long term rates drop, investments become more profitable, mortgages become more affordable, and banks have a lot lower incentive to sit on their excess reserves. Wether or not long term rates will drop has yet to be determined. If it doesnt, it will be just like any other failed monetary policy. Our best hope is if expected inflation rises, which would create a lot of Investment spending, and household consumption.

[Jeffy]

German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566

Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!

Not as much as the United States.   


Everyone in this thread should probably start   Would up your IQs on the subject a LOT.

I dont see how that will up any ones IQ about quantitative easing or the scope of the situation in any way.
I will agree that the Fed reacted too little too late when it comes to lowering interest rates in 2008.  in late 2008, when the crap was really starting to hit the fan, if it wasnt for quantitative easing and aggressive lending programs we would be sitting in some serious deflation right now.  As for the QE2, i really dont think anyone has a firm grip on what will really happen. When long term rates drop, investments become more profitable, mortgages become more affordable, and banks have a lot lower incentive to sit on their excess reserves. Wether or not long term rates will drop has yet to be determined. If it doesnt, it will be just like any other failed monetary policy. Our best hope is if expected inflation rises, which would create a lot of Investment spending, and household consumption.

Economies naturally correct themselves.  The more intrusive the interference to stave off a correction, the harder that correction will hit.

[Kat Kid]

German finance minister says Bernanke is a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), US screwing over the world, policy Horrendous

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/germany-criticizes-us-stimulus-plans/story?id=12066566

Figures he'd say that...GERMANY IS SOCIALIST!

Not as much as the United States.   


Everyone in this thread should probably start   Would up your IQs on the subject a LOT.

I dont see how that will up any ones IQ about quantitative easing or the scope of the situation in any way.
I will agree that the Fed reacted too little too late when it comes to lowering interest rates in 2008.  in late 2008, when the crap was really starting to hit the fan, if it wasnt for quantitative easing and aggressive lending programs we would be sitting in some serious deflation right now.  As for the QE2, i really dont think anyone has a firm grip on what will really happen. When long term rates drop, investments become more profitable, mortgages become more affordable, and banks have a lot lower incentive to sit on their excess reserves. Wether or not long term rates will drop has yet to be determined. If it doesnt, it will be just like any other failed monetary policy. Our best hope is if expected inflation rises, which would create a lot of Investment spending, and household consumption.

Economies naturally correct themselves.  The more intrusive the interference to stave off a correction, the harder that correction will hit.

Come on guys, Economies naturally correct themselves.

[jtksu]

Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked.  I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right?  What I don't know, can't hurt me!

[Kat Kid]

Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked.  I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right?  What I don't know, can't hurt me!

The thing you're forgetting?  Economies naturally correct themselves.  It just like does it!

[Sugar Dick]

Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked.  I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right?  What I don't know, can't hurt me!

The thing you're forgetting?  Economies naturally correct themselves.  It just like does it!

I am so glad that I am not stupid like you are.

 

[Jeffy]

Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked.  I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right?  What I don't know, can't hurt me!

The thing you're forgetting?  Economies naturally correct themselves.  It just like does it!

I am so glad that I am not stupid like you are.

 

It's what happens when you have a Keynesian father teaching you incorrect things your whole life.  Don't blame KK.  Blame dad. 

Good news for KK is his dad probably voted somewhere in the country in the past couple elections.

[Sugar Dick]

Pretty much the reason I don't have my prostate checked.  I figure, cancer usually clears itself up, right?  What I don't know, can't hurt me!

The thing you're forgetting?  Economies naturally correct themselves.  It just like does it!

I am so glad that I am not stupid like you are.

 

It's what happens when you have a Keynesian father teaching you incorrect things your whole life.  Don't blame KK.  Blame dad. 

Good news for KK is his dad probably voted somewhere in the country in the past couple elections.

Even Keynes himself wouldn't deny that economies naturally correct themselves.  Only poor, abused child, KK.

[jtksu]

Economies will eventually correct themselves, in a vacuum.  That doesn't mean we should stand idly by and let the thing implode.  It makes much more sense to attempt to artificially correct it than to let it fall as far as it will on it's own, before it begins to stabilize.

[Sugar Dick]

Economies will eventually correct themselves, in a vacuum.  That doesn't mean we should stand idly by and let the thing implode.  It makes much more sense to attempt to artificially correct it than to let it fall as far as it will on it's own, before it begins to stabilize.

You do know they attempt to slow the economy down when it's "growing too fast" don't you?  They tend to drag their feet on this one, but they do.

It's all about smoothing out the highs and the lows.  The only problem is the Fed seems to have done more harm than good over the last 25 years or so.

[AzCat]

Economies will eventually correct themselves, in a vacuum.  That doesn't mean we should stand idly by and let the thing implode.  It makes much more sense to attempt to artificially correct it than to let it fall as far as it will on it's own, before it begins to stabilize.

You do know they attempt to slow the economy down when it's "growing too fast" don't you?  They tend to drag their feet on this one, but they do.

It's all about smoothing out the highs and the lows.  The only problem is the Fed seems to have done more harm than good over the last 25 97 years or so.

FYP.  Of course the Fed can't fix the head-up-your-ass tax & regulatory policies we have in this country so their ability to exert real influence is diminished daily. 

[Pendergast]

Economies naturally fix themselves?  And I bet those supply and demand charts they showed you in high school are gospel too right?


Holy crap, if you actually believe the economy will fix itself, I think you need to consider the imperfect world you live in.


The invisible hand was an interesting thought, and then people realized human nature is ever present.


I'm yet to decide my stance on this particular subject but for the love of god please do not suffer the falsehoods of mathematically based economic theory.  It just doesn't work.

[Jeffy]

Economies naturally fix themselves?  And I bet those supply and demand charts they showed you in high school are gospel too right?


Holy crap, if you actually believe the economy will fix itself, I think you need to consider the imperfect world you live in.


The invisible hand was an interesting thought, and then people realized human nature is ever present.


I'm yet to decide my stance on this particular subject but for the love of god please do not suffer the falsehoods of mathematically based economic theory.  It just doesn't work.

Do you interpret the Constitution as literally and in such a strict constructionalist fashion?

[Dirty Sanchez]

Of course economies correct themselves (if not mumped with too much).  Take housing for example.  There's too much of it right now.  Eventually degradation of houses currently built plus population increases and shifts will fill that glut and there won't be enough houses out there to fill the need, so houses will be built, providing jobs and pouring money into the economy.

Of course if we do things like provide incentives for junior to stay living at home til he's 32, he won't ever go out and fill a house. 

[Sugar Dick]

Holy cac, if you actually believe the economy will fix itself, I think you need to consider the imperfect world you live in.

The invisible hand was an interesting thought, and then people realized human nature is ever present.

this is an odd statement, seems like you're refuting the invisible hand while at the same time embracing it.

[Kat Kid]

Of course economies correct themselves (if not mumped with too much).  Take housing for example.  There's too much of it right now.  Eventually degradation of houses currently built plus population increases and shifts will fill that glut and there won't be enough houses out there to fill the need, so houses will be built, providing jobs and pouring money into the economy.

Of course if we do things like provide incentives for junior to stay living at home til he's 32, he won't ever go out and fill a house. 

Policy has an impact on the economy?  I thought they just corrected themselves?

[Pendergast]

 

Oh well, I knew it would be pointless.  A perfect market doesn't exist, so the economy requires adjustments from time to time.  Whether this particular one was a good one will be known in time.

[Jeffy]

Oh well, I knew it would be pointless.  A perfect market doesn't exist, so the economy requires adjustments from time to time.  Whether this particular one was a good one will be known in time.

A perfect market maintains equilibrium 100% of the time and never fluctuates.  You're right.  It doesn't exist.  We are talking about natural corrections and not about perfection. 

But thanks for tapping out.

[Sugar Dick]

Of course economies correct themselves (if not effed with too much).  Take housing for example.  There's too much of it right now.  Eventually degradation of houses currently built plus population increases and shifts will fill that glut and there won't be enough houses out there to fill the need, so houses will be built, providing jobs and pouring money into the economy.

Of course if we do things like provide incentives for junior to stay living at home til he's 32, he won't ever go out and fill a house. 

Policy has an impact on the economy?  I thought they just corrected themselves?

I am so glad that I am not stupid like you are.

 

[Sugar Dick]

Here's a fabulous example of how government involvement makes markets less efficient.  I think we can say despite these inefficiencies and despite further government intervention the market has taken measures to CORRECTS ITSELF.

Copied out of the Wall Street Reform Bill

SEC. 1491. SENSE OF CONGRESS REGARDING THE IMPORTANCE OF
GOVERNMENT-SPONSORED ENTERPRISES REFORM TO
ENHANCE THE PROTECTION, LIMITATION, AND REGULATION
OF THE TERMS OF RESIDENTIAL MORTGAGE
CREDIT.
(a) FINDINGS.—The Congress finds as follows:
(1) The Government-sponsored enterprises, Federal
National Mortgage Association (Fannie Mae) and the Federal
Home Loan Mortgage Corporation (Freddie Mac), were chartered
by Congress to ensure a reliable and affordable supply
of mortgage funding, but enjoy a dual legal status as privately
owned corporations with Government mandated affordable
housing goals.
(2) In 1996, the Department of Housing and Urban Development
required that 42 percent of Fannie Mae’s and Freddie
Mac’s mortgage financing should go to borrowers with income
levels below the median for a given area.
(3) In 2004, the Department of Housing and Urban Development
revised those goals, increasing them to 56 percent of
their overall mortgage purchases by 2008, and additionally
mandated that 12 percent of all mortgage purchases by Fannie
Mae and Freddie Mac be ‘‘special affordable’’ loans made to
borrowers with incomes less than 60 percent of an area’s
median income, a target that ultimately increased to 28 percent
for 2008.
(4) To help fulfill those mandated affordable housing goals,
in 1995 the Department of Housing and Urban Development
authorized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to purchase subprime
securities that included loans made to low-income borrowers.
(5) After this authorization to purchase subprime securities,
subprime and near-prime loans increased from 9 percent of
securitized mortgages in 2001 to 40 percent in 2006, while
the market share of conventional mortgages dropped from 78.8
percent in 2003 to 50.1 percent by 2007 with a corresponding
increase in subprime and Alt-A loans from 10.1 percent to
32.7 percent over the same period.
(6) In 2004 alone, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac purchased
$175,000,000,000 in subprime mortgage securities, which
accounted for 44 percent of the market that year, and from
2005 through 2007, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac purchased
approximately $1,000,000,000,000 in subprime and Alt-A loans,
while Fannie Mae’s acquisitions of mortgages with less than
10 percent down payments almost tripled.
(7) According to data from the Federal Housing Finance
Agency (FHFA) for the fourth quarter of 2008, Fannie Mae
and Freddie Mac own or guarantee 75 percent of all newly
originated mortgages, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac currently
own 13.3 percent of outstanding mortgage debt in the
United States and have issued mortgage-backed securities for
31.0 percent of the residential debt market, a combined total
of 44.3 percent of outstanding mortgage debt in the United
States.
(8) On September 7, 2008, the FHFA placed Fannie Mae
and Freddie Mac into conservatorship, with the Treasury
Department subsequently agreeing to purchase at least
$200,000,000,000 of preferred stock from each enterprise in
exchange for warrants for the purchase of 79.9 percent of
each enterprise’s common stock.
(9) The conservatorship for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
has potentially exposed taxpayers to upwards of
$5,300,000,000,000 worth of risk.
(10) The hybrid public-private status of Fannie Mae and
Freddie Mac is untenable and must be resolved to assure that
consumers are offered and receive residential mortgage loans
on terms that reasonably reflect their ability to repay the
loans and that

This is quite frightening.  It's also the only place Fannie and Freddie are mentioned in this "reform" bill, other than in places where the law is sure to specifically exclude them from oversight.

For morons like Mr. KK  after twelve digits is Trillions