Author Topic: Fire LHC Bill Snyder Master Thread  (Read 82084 times)

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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #275 on: November 15, 2010, 10:21:58 AM »
Mike Leach would be winning 10 games per year with the occasional 7 win season by year 4.

What makes you think this? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Leach, but he'd be an 8/9 win coach with an occasional double digit win season at K-State just like he was at Tech.

I think that Mack Brown will step down after this season. If you add a win over Texas, and assume Leach continues to dominate the Big 12 north, he becomes a 9/10 win coach.

You think TX will be more vulnerable with Mack gone?

Historically, TX has only been good with Mack Brown or Darrell Royal as head coach. To think they will be better without Mack is laughable.

Offline CNS

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #276 on: November 15, 2010, 10:24:16 AM »
Mike Leach would be winning 10 games per year with the occasional 7 win season by year 4.

What makes you think this? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Leach, but he'd be an 8/9 win coach with an occasional double digit win season at K-State just like he was at Tech.

I think that Mack Brown will step down after this season. If you add a win over Texas, and assume Leach continues to dominate the Big 12 north, he becomes a 9/10 win coach.

You think TX will be more vulnerable with Mack gone?

Historically, TX has only been good with Mack Brown or Darrell Royal as head coach. To think they will be better without Mack is laughable.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #277 on: November 15, 2010, 10:26:58 AM »
Mike Leach would be winning 10 games per year with the occasional 7 win season by year 4.

What makes you think this? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Leach, but he'd be an 8/9 win coach with an occasional double digit win season at K-State just like he was at Tech.

I think that Mack Brown will step down after this season. If you add a win over Texas, and assume Leach continues to dominate the Big 12 north, he becomes a 9/10 win coach.

You think TX will be more vulnerable with Mack gone?

Historically, TX has only been good with Mack Brown or Darrell Royal as head coach. To think they will be better without Mack is laughable.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

The new coach will be expected to be as good as Mack Brown, and will probably be fired after his third season. It is hard to win 11 games per season, no matter what school you are coaching. Nine or ten wins per year with the occasional 12 win season is not good enough at Texas, and the first 6 or 7 win season will get a coach fired.

Offline michigancat

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #278 on: November 15, 2010, 10:28:31 AM »
If everyone thinks we're a 7-8 win program (I don't disagree), why are we rough ridin' around with Snyder?  I mean, Prince sucked, but it isn't like he made us a 2-3 win program.  A bowl in two years isn't some kind of miracle turnaround we're dealing worth here.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Exactly.  They are like Notre Dame when Lou Holtz left and Florida when Spurrier left.  No sweat!

Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #279 on: November 15, 2010, 10:34:18 AM »
Mike Leach would be winning 10 games per year with the occasional 7 win season by year 4.

What makes you think this? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Leach, but he'd be an 8/9 win coach with an occasional double digit win season at K-State just like he was at Tech.

I think that Mack Brown will step down after this season. If you add a win over Texas, and assume Leach continues to dominate the Big 12 north, he becomes a 9/10 win coach.

You think TX will be more vulnerable with Mack gone?

Historically, TX has only been good with Mack Brown or Darrell Royal as head coach. To think they will be better without Mack is laughable.

If everyone thinks we're a 7-8 win program (I don't disagree), why are we effing around with Snyder?  I mean, Prince sucked, but it isn't like he made us a 2-3 win program.  A bowl in two years isn't some kind of miracle turnaround we're dealing worth here.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Exactly.  They are like Notre Dame when Lou Holtz left and Florida when Spurrier left.  No sweat!

Weird.  Some of you guys actually seem to be arguing from the viewpoint that KSU will find it easier to plug in a new coach and build a program than it is at Texas, Notre Dame and Florida.

 :confused:
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Offline mcmwcat

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #280 on: November 15, 2010, 10:36:20 AM »
Mike Leach would be winning 10 games per year with the occasional 7 win season by year 4.

What makes you think this? 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Leach, but he'd be an 8/9 win coach with an occasional double digit win season at K-State just like he was at Tech.

I think that Mack Brown will step down after this season. If you add a win over Texas, and assume Leach continues to dominate the Big 12 north, he becomes a 9/10 win coach.

You think TX will be more vulnerable with Mack gone?

Historically, TX has only been good with Mack Brown or Darrell Royal as head coach. To think they will be better without Mack is laughable.

If everyone thinks we're a 7-8 win program (I don't disagree), why are we effing around with Snyder?  I mean, Prince sucked, but it isn't like he made us a 2-3 win program.  A bowl in two years isn't some kind of miracle turnaround we're dealing worth here.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Exactly.  They are like Notre Dame when Lou Holtz left and Florida when Spurrier left.  No sweat!

Weird.  Some of you guys actually seem to be arguing from the viewpoint that KSU will find it easier to plug in a new coach and build a program than it is at Texas, Notre Dame and Florida.

 :confused:

yeah that logic follows exactly  :rolleyes:

Offline CNS

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #281 on: November 15, 2010, 10:37:16 AM »
If everyone thinks we're a 7-8 win program (I don't disagree), why are we effing around with Snyder?  I mean, Prince sucked, but it isn't like he made us a 2-3 win program.  A bowl in two years isn't some kind of miracle turnaround we're dealing worth here.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Exactly.  They are like Notre Dame when Lou Holtz left and Florida when Spurrier left.  No sweat!

ND has other issues that don't apply to TX.  Florida has been doing fine for a while now.  I am not saying that there won't be two or three down seasons.  That can and will happen anywhere, but the ceiling is much higher at TX than at KSU, and the rebound period should be very short, where KSU's could be twice as long.

Offline michigancat

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #282 on: November 15, 2010, 10:40:55 AM »
Mike Leach would be winning 10 games per year with the occasional 7 win season by year 4.

What makes you think this?  

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Leach, but he'd be an 8/9 win coach with an occasional double digit win season at K-State just like he was at Tech.

I think that Mack Brown will step down after this season. If you add a win over Texas, and assume Leach continues to dominate the Big 12 north, he becomes a 9/10 win coach.

You think TX will be more vulnerable with Mack gone?

Historically, TX has only been good with Mack Brown or Darrell Royal as head coach. To think they will be better without Mack is laughable.

If everyone thinks we're a 7-8 win program (I don't disagree), why are we effing around with Snyder?  I mean, Prince sucked, but it isn't like he made us a 2-3 win program.  A bowl in two years isn't some kind of miracle turnaround we're dealing worth here.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Exactly.  They are like Notre Dame when Lou Holtz left and Florida when Spurrier left.  No sweat!

Weird.  Some of you guys actually seem to be arguing from the viewpoint that KSU will find it easier to plug in a new coach and build a program than it is at Texas, Notre Dame and Florida.

 :confused:

It is easier for KSU to plug in a coach 20 years younger than OB to match what OB has done his last 4 seasons than it is for UT to plug in a coach to match what Mack has done for the past 10 seasons.


Offline slimz

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #283 on: November 15, 2010, 10:41:56 AM »
It's weird that people think we're a 9-win kind of program. We're a 7/8-win program with a chance at 10/11-win season every 3-4 years when our recruiting classes fall out just right. At best.

If the Big 12 were continuing with the 12 teams and division play, then 9-win seasons are an acceptable expectation with LHC Bill Snyder. You get your 4 freebies from the non-con, then you should be able to go 5-3 most years. Most years you should be better than at least 3 teams in the North, and then you need to pick up 2 wins out of the 5 remaining games. Not unreasonable with LHCBS, right?

With the new conference format, who knows how it will play out and what a reasonable expectation should be.

But back to the quote above.  Part of the reason people are pissed is that this year should have been one of those chances at a 10/11 win season and a run at the conference championship.  Big 12 is way, way down.  We should have been competitive versus Nebraska and Mizzou. We should have defeated OSU at home.  

We weren't in a position to do that because 5 years ago, and again 2 years ago, LHC Bill Snyder decided he was bigger than K-State.  Coming off a 2003 conference championship, he allowed his assistant coaches to get lax and squander any momentum that should have been gained.  Recruiting went downhill.  The team on the field failed to execute like it should have.  For crying out loud, they let the long snapper hike the ball to an invisible punter standing in the OU endzone.

When the AD told Snyder he needed to make changes for the good of the program, Snyder decided he was bigger than K-State and that he would retire instead of making changes that were obviously needed.

When the Ron Prince Experience came to its explosive end, K-State had a chance to acquire a coach who knows how to defend the spread, who is a part of the K-State family (not something I personally require but that a lot of our fans seem to want), and whose team is now contending for national championships.  But at this point, Snyder once again put his interests ahead of K-State's, decided he wanted a second crack at going out the right way, and got back into the game.  

To be fair, Snyder probably felt like this was in K-State's best interests, and an opportunity for him to restore the program to where it should have been had he made the appropriate personnel changes at the end of his first tenure.  It started off okay...he was going to get young, hungry assistants who could recruit and had the energy to get the program winning again.  Other top head coaches were going to funnel assistants and recruits our way.  Andy Ludwig and Vic Koenning were good starts.  Then Ludwig arrived at MHK, claimed his baggage, and immediately got on an outbound flight.  Koenning gave us a year before hightailing it to Illinois, and suddenly, here we are again with the Assistant Coach All Stars who let to Snyder's first retirement.

Of course, those recruiting leads never really materialized (except for the transfers, which are good), so in a year of great opportunity, we were left with 2 QBs who, if combined, could make a pretty good starter, a small, slow-ish, not particularly intelligent defense, and those fantastic assistant coaches to whip it all into shape.  

People who are upset with what looks to be an 8 win season are upset because, when taken in the macro view, it could have been much, much more.  They're afraid that 8 wins will cover what are some serious deficiencies in coaching and playing personnel, so changes won't be made and the end result will be that we're back to where we were at the end of Snyder's first tenure:  great years are not 10-11 wins; they're this year:  8 wins.  Average years are 5-6 wins.

Hopefully, this time around it's different. Cosh gets demoted and a new DC/HCIW not named Sean Snyder is brought in for next year.  The offensive recruits pan out and some defensive recruits are found and acquired.  Given where we're at, that's about the best we can hope for, and with the right HCIW, it may give us a pretty good shot at laying the groundwork for a solid program long-term.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 10:43:41 AM by slimz »

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #284 on: November 15, 2010, 10:46:25 AM »
If everyone thinks we're a 7-8 win program (I don't disagree), why are we effing around with Snyder?  I mean, Prince sucked, but it isn't like he made us a 2-3 win program.  A bowl in two years isn't some kind of miracle turnaround we're dealing worth here.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Exactly.  They are like Notre Dame when Lou Holtz left and Florida when Spurrier left.  No sweat!

ND has other issues that don't apply to TX.  Florida has been doing fine for a while now.  I am not saying that there won't be two or three down seasons.  That can and will happen anywhere, but the ceiling is much higher at TX than at KSU, and the rebound period should be very short, where KSU's could be twice as long.

How long did it take Alabama to rebound when Bear Bryant left? How long for USC to rebound when John McKay left? Washington has won 4 national championships. They're still good, right? Michigan hasn't missed a step since Lloyd Carr, either.

Offline CNS

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #285 on: November 15, 2010, 10:47:10 AM »


It is easier for KSU to plug in a coach 20 years younger than OB to match what OB has done his last 4 seasons than it is for UT to plug in a coach to match what Mack has done for the past 10 seasons.


[/quote]

I agree with this as far as immediate results.  

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #286 on: November 15, 2010, 10:50:30 AM »
Guys, since a 12th game was added in 2006, 9 wins is the new 8. It just is not as impressive as it used to be. This year's team is terrible and still has a decent shot a 9 wins. I don't think it's that unrealistic to want a coach who will recruit decent talent and make us competitive enough to beat 3 patsies and beat our mediocre conference opponents.

Offline CNS

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #287 on: November 15, 2010, 10:50:41 AM »
If everyone thinks we're a 7-8 win program (I don't disagree), why are we effing around with Snyder?  I mean, Prince sucked, but it isn't like he made us a 2-3 win program.  A bowl in two years isn't some kind of miracle turnaround we're dealing worth here.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Exactly.  They are like Notre Dame when Lou Holtz left and Florida when Spurrier left.  No sweat!

ND has other issues that don't apply to TX.  Florida has been doing fine for a while now.  I am not saying that there won't be two or three down seasons.  That can and will happen anywhere, but the ceiling is much higher at TX than at KSU, and the rebound period should be very short, where KSU's could be twice as long.

How long did it take Alabama to rebound when Bear Bryant left? How long for USC to rebound when John McKay left? Washington has won 4 national championships. They're still good, right? Michigan hasn't missed a step since Lloyd Carr, either.

Point made on the importance of a coach.  However, that still doesn't explain why they should count as an extra win on KSU's schedule if we both switch coaches in the near future.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #288 on: November 15, 2010, 10:54:31 AM »
If everyone thinks we're a 7-8 win program (I don't disagree), why are we effing around with Snyder?  I mean, Prince sucked, but it isn't like he made us a 2-3 win program.  A bowl in two years isn't some kind of miracle turnaround we're dealing worth here.

They have a huge pool of talent waiting to be picked from, they have a very active fan base, and they are rich as hell.  TX will be the best opening in the nation when it needs a new coach.  Don't be Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

Exactly.  They are like Notre Dame when Lou Holtz left and Florida when Spurrier left.  No sweat!

ND has other issues that don't apply to TX.  Florida has been doing fine for a while now.  I am not saying that there won't be two or three down seasons.  That can and will happen anywhere, but the ceiling is much higher at TX than at KSU, and the rebound period should be very short, where KSU's could be twice as long.

How long did it take Alabama to rebound when Bear Bryant left? How long for USC to rebound when John McKay left? Washington has won 4 national championships. They're still good, right? Michigan hasn't missed a step since Lloyd Carr, either.

Point made on the importance of a coach.  However, that still doesn't explain why they should count as an extra win on KSU's schedule if we both switch coaches in the near future.

Most coaches, even good ones, simply have no answer for Mike Leach's offense. If I know that KSU is getting Leach and do not know who Texas is getting, I like Mike Leach. If Texas gets somebody like Pete Carroll (won't happen), then I would change my mind.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #289 on: November 15, 2010, 11:00:10 AM »

But back to the quote above.  Part of the reason people are pissed is that this year should have been one of those chances at a 10/11 win season and a run at the conference championship.  Big 12 is way, way down.  We should have been competitive versus Nebraska and Mizzou. We should have defeated OSU at home.  

There are plenty of sound points there slimz, but this is a reach given the talent we have.  Yeah, you could say it seems that way b/c we were in those games and had chances to win.  But I'd argue those chances were much more due to coaching and putting kids in position to win over anything else.  I won't argue that coaching mistakes were made in each game, but this staff took a team that is way below their scholarship limit, with few defensive playmakers, with no complete QB, with 2 of its best WRs out, etc. and had them arguably on the verge of a 10 win season.  IMO in the end the more talented teams won out, and its hard to argue any of the teams that beat us have less talent than we do.  Really, you have to look at this both ways.  The truth is somewhere in between the "we are terribly coached and Snyder sucks" angle and "Snyder has done a hell of a job coaching this group up".  It seems we've got to have it one way or the other when depending on what you look at both are probably true.  

Saying "this team is terrible" is not accurate either.  Is this team terrible compared to K-State 03 or 98 or whatever?  Probably, but that shouldn't be the sole guage.  Compared to college football this team is about where it should be, and comparing college football talent level and rosters, this team is maybe a bit better than it should be.  There are tons of incomplete teams in college football, and this is another one of those.  We have a decent offense (despite a clear QB), good special teams, and a bad defense.  We are really limited with the playmakers we have, especially on defense, but also on offense.  When you have that, most likely you are going to be a .500 or slightly above team. 

I don't see how anyone is suprised by where we are at or that the season has gone the way it has.  We've pretty much performed how someone would reasonably expect us to perform, and probably slightly better (1 win or so) than anyone here expected. 

Offline Ghost of Stan Parrish

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #290 on: November 15, 2010, 11:02:57 AM »
I'm OK with what LHC Bill Snyder has done so far.  The program was on a decline under Ron Prince, no doubt.  Our recruiting was getting worse every year, and our conference record got worse every year:

7-6 (4-4)
5-7 (3-5)
5-7 (2-6)  (Would've been a game worse overall if Krause hadn't blown $800,000 to buy out the Fresno State game.)

If KSU beats CU and UNT, I'd say Snyder has "calmed the waters."  Recruiting has improved and we've gone 4-4 in conference each season -- which was Prince's highlight season.  (Those who point to KU and UT getting worse, forget that NU, BU and OSU have gotten better.)

So, I just don't get the hate.  Obviously, Snyder's not going to coach forever.  And to say you expected 10 wins this season, with this team, is just nutty.  Either people have unrealistic expectations for KSU to be a national power every year, or I'd have to guess that people are still just upset about 2004 and 2005... 
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Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #291 on: November 15, 2010, 11:06:23 AM »
I'm OK with what LHC Bill Snyder has done so far.  The program was on a decline under Ron Prince, no doubt.  Our recruiting was getting worse every year, and our conference record got worse every year:

7-6 (4-4)
5-7 (3-5)
5-7 (2-6)  (Would've been a game worse overall if Krause hadn't blown $800,000 to buy out the Fresno State game.)

If KSU beats CU and UNT, I'd say Snyder has "calmed the waters."  Recruiting has improved and we've gone 4-4 in conference each season -- which was Prince's highlight season.  (Those who point to KU and UT getting worse, forget that NU, BU and OSU have gotten better.)

So, I just don't get the hate.  Obviously, Snyder's not going to coach forever.  And to say you expected 10 wins this season, with this team, is just nutty.  Either people have unrealistic expectations for KSU to be a national power every year, or I'd have to guess that people are still just upset about 2004 and 2005... 

i pretty much agree w/ all this.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #292 on: November 15, 2010, 11:08:40 AM »

But back to the quote above.  Part of the reason people are pissed is that this year should have been one of those chances at a 10/11 win season and a run at the conference championship.  Big 12 is way, way down.  We should have been competitive versus Nebraska and Mizzou. We should have defeated OSU at home.  

There are plenty of sound points there slimz, but this is a reach given the talent we have.  Yeah, you could say it seems that way b/c we were in those games and had chances to win.  But I'd argue those chances were much more due to coaching and putting kids in position to win over anything else.  I won't argue that coaching mistakes were made in each game, but this staff took a team that is way below their scholarship limit, with few defensive playmakers, with no complete QB, with 2 of its best WRs out, etc. and had them arguably on the verge of a 10 win season.  IMO in the end the more talented teams won out, and its hard to argue any of the teams that beat us have less talent than we do.  Really, you have to look at this both ways.  The truth is somewhere in between the "we are terribly coached and Snyder sucks" angle and "Snyder has done a hell of a job coaching this group up".  It seems we've got to have it one way or the other when depending on what you look at both are probably true.  

Saying "this team is terrible" is not accurate either.  Is this team terrible compared to K-State 03 or 98 or whatever?  Probably, but that shouldn't be the sole guage.  Compared to college football this team is about where it should be, and comparing college football talent level and rosters, this team is maybe a bit better than it should be.  There are tons of incomplete teams in college football, and this is another one of those.  We have a decent offense (despite a clear QB), good special teams, and a bad defense.  We are really limited with the playmakers we have, especially on defense, but also on offense.  When you have that, most likely you are going to be a .500 or slightly above team. 

I don't see how anyone is suprised by where we are at or that the season has gone the way it has.  We've pretty much performed how someone would reasonably expect us to perform, and probably slightly better (1 win or so) than anyone here expected. 

I never said that I'm disappointed with this season. I will be disappointed next year if we have less wins with Tuggle and the Brown brothers. Even with a tougher schedule, not being able to win as many games next year with all of the extra talent coming in than we won this year is a sign that Snyder has plateaued and it's time to find somebody else.

Offline _33

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #293 on: November 15, 2010, 11:09:03 AM »

But back to the quote above.  Part of the reason people are pissed is that this year should have been one of those chances at a 10/11 win season and a run at the conference championship.  Big 12 is way, way down.  We should have been competitive versus Nebraska and Mizzou. We should have defeated OSU at home.  


I don't see how anyone is suprised by where we are at or that the season has gone the way it has.  We've pretty much performed how someone would reasonably expect us to perform, and probably slightly better (1 win or so) than anyone here expected. 

People are surprised because they want miracles from LHC Bill Snyder.  He used to make our wildest dreams come true.  Now his teams just "perform about how you would expect" and that is not what dreams are made of.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #294 on: November 15, 2010, 11:11:18 AM »
People are surprised because they want miracles from LHC Bill Snyder.  He used to make our wildest dreams come true.  Now his teams just "perform about how you would expect" and that is not what dreams are made of.

Thanks _33.  Probably the best post in this whole darn thread.

Offline slimz

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #295 on: November 15, 2010, 11:11:50 AM »

But back to the quote above.  Part of the reason people are pissed is that this year should have been one of those chances at a 10/11 win season and a run at the conference championship.  Big 12 is way, way down.  We should have been competitive versus Nebraska and Mizzou. We should have defeated OSU at home.  

There are plenty of sound points there slimz, but this is a reach given the talent we have.  Yeah, you could say it seems that way b/c we were in those games and had chances to win.  But I'd argue those chances were much more due to coaching and putting kids in position to win over anything else.  I won't argue that coaching mistakes were made in each game, but this staff took a team that is way below their scholarship limit, with few defensive playmakers, with no complete QB, with 2 of its best WRs out, etc. and had them arguably on the verge of a 10 win season.  IMO in the end the more talented teams won out, and its hard to argue any of the teams that beat us have less talent than we do.  Really, you have to look at this both ways.  The truth is somewhere in between the "we are terribly coached and Snyder sucks" angle and "Snyder has done a hell of a job coaching this group up".  It seems we've got to have it one way or the other when depending on what you look at both are probably true.  

Saying "this team is terrible" is not accurate either.  Is this team terrible compared to K-State 03 or 98 or whatever?  Probably, but that shouldn't be the sole guage.  Compared to college football this team is about where it should be, and comparing college football talent level and rosters, this team is maybe a bit better than it should be.  There are tons of incomplete teams in college football, and this is another one of those.  We have a decent offense (despite a clear QB), good special teams, and a bad defense.  We are really limited with the playmakers we have, especially on defense, but also on offense.  When you have that, most likely you are going to be a .500 or slightly above team. 

I don't see how anyone is suprised by where we are at or that the season has gone the way it has.  We've pretty much performed how someone would reasonably expect us to perform, and probably slightly better (1 win or so) than anyone here expected. 

As I'm sure I posted on here before the season, I expected 4 or 5 wins this season, so they've far surpassed my expectations headed into the season. However, I didn't anticipate how bad the Big 12 was going to be as a conference.

But preseason expectations really wasn't the point of my post.  The point was, in light of the Big 12's suckiness, this actually turned out to be an opportunity year...an opportunity year that we lost most likely because of decisions that LHC Bill Snyder has made over the last 5 years.  We don't have the players and coaches to take advantage of this opportunity year because of decisions Snyder has made in previous years.  The importance of this coming offseason is to observe whether Snyder has learned from those and is prepared to make decisions that will better serve the long-term interests of this program.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #296 on: November 15, 2010, 11:15:07 AM »
People are surprised because they want miracles from LHC Bill Snyder.  He used to make our wildest dreams come true.  Now his teams just "perform about how you would expect" and that is not what dreams are made of.

Thanks _33.  Probably the best post in this whole darn thread.

I just want to expect improvement. If 7 wins this year is "performing how you would expect", then 8 or 9 wins next year, with a team more talented than this one, should be "performing how you would expect."

Offline nicname

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #297 on: November 15, 2010, 11:16:46 AM »
Wow, the floodgates of irrationality have really opened up in this thread.  

Being a program that averages nine wins over a 12 game season is a 75% winning percentage.  Add in the bowl season and it is a 69% winning percentage.

Including only BCS teams and Notre Dame, there very few that can even accomplish that feat for an entire decade.  KSU did manage this during the DoD, but it will be tough to duplicate.

Since the 1970's only 27 programs have managed a 69% winrate, and a mere 19 have managed 75% for an entire calender decade.  And the only ones who have been able to manage averaging 75% more than once are college football royalty.  

OU 70s, 80s, 00s
Mich 70's, 80s, 90s
Neb 70s, 80s, 90s
Penn St 70s, 80s, 90s
Ohio St 70s, 90s
USC 70s, 00s
Texas 70s, 00s
Miami 80s, 90s
Georgia 80s, 00s
Fla St 80s, 90s
Florida 90s, 00s

I'm not saying that being that good shouldn't be a goal, but to expect that kind of performance is hyperbolic.  I'm not saying that Snyder is the only guy that could have ever won big here, but the proof is in the pudding and until proven otherwise that kind of achievement will continue to be the exception rather than the rule.  I do, however, believe that it should be expected to be competitive over a majority of the long-haul.      

 


  

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Offline CHONGS

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #298 on: November 15, 2010, 11:22:28 AM »
If we play and beat a BCS team in our bowl game then I will very pleased with the season.   It's hard for me to consider a team ( in a major BCS conference) having a successful season without beating a single BCS team with a winning record.  

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: LHC Bill Snyder
« Reply #299 on: November 15, 2010, 11:26:16 AM »
I'm not saying that we should average 9 wins, but the fans should be disappointed with less. Not being able to win 9 or even 10 games for an extended period of time should be a reason to fire the coach.