2011 Recruiting Thread

[steve dave]

Well, that was encouraging at least

[WillieWatanabe]

It's like these people aren't watching the same dudes.

[sys]

There are a very, very, very few high school recruits who do not struggle against like bodied/ability players.    The "he struggles against guys his size and build/he looks good because of the talent he plays against" is quite possibly the dumbest basketball recruiting commentary in history . . .

i get what you're saying, and it may be overused.  but, no, not really.  there are plenty of recruits that don't struggle at all against like-bodied players.  in fact, they tend to dominate them.  pretty much the entire top 50 falls into that category.  then you've got many more players that don't standout physically, but excel on skill.

i do think the whole "let's see if he can do that at a high-major" thing that gets thrown at every short thick pf is incredibly overdone.  1)  even at high majors, there aren't many 6'9" 260 guys.  or even other 6'6" 260 guys.  those thick bastards can still knock everyone out of the way at high-majors.  2)  there is an extremely long, very distinguished list of short pfs that were productive in college.  but for some reason all the recruiting analysts get collective amnesia on the subject whenever they see a recruit under 6'8" in the post.

[WillieWatanabe]

The early signing period hasn't even started, but Kansas State coach Frank Martin is off to a great start by landing two post presences in Thomas Gipson (Cedar Hill, Texas/Cedar Hill) and Adrian Diaz  (Hialeah, Fla./ Hialeah Miami Lakes). It is very difficult to find size in any draft class, particularly early, which makes it that much more impressive for Martin to bring in the 6-foot-7, 240-pound Gipson and the 7-0, 205-pound Diaz. Now, Kansas State can focus on building around these two bigs to fill out its 2011 recruiting class.

Isn't it filled to the brim?? 

[sonofdaxjones]

There are a very, very, very few high school recruits who do not struggle against like bodied/ability players.    The "he struggles against guys his size and build/he looks good because of the talent he plays against" is quite possibly the dumbest basketball recruiting commentary in history . . .

i get what you're saying, and it may be overused.  but, no, not really.  there are plenty of recruits that don't struggle at all against like-bodied players.  in fact, they tend to dominate them.  pretty much the entire top 50 falls into that category.  then you've got many more players that don't standout physically, but excel on skill.

i do think the whole "let's see if he can do that at a high-major" thing that gets thrown at every short thick pf is incredibly overdone.  1)  even at high majors, there aren't many 6'9" 260 guys.  or even other 6'6" 260 guys.  those thick bastards can still knock everyone out of the way at high-majors.  2)  there is an extremely long, very distinguished list of short pfs that were productive in college.  but for some reason all the recruiting analysts get collective amnesia on the subject whenever they see a recruit under 6'8" in the post.

It's all relative . . . and who are these "like bodied" players??   In addition, I'll maintain that a player of that build that struggles against "like bodied" players has not been taught well, particularly how to use their bodies.   That's a coaching issue, and a correctable issue.   But look at what the guy from ESPN says . . . like someone said, it's like they're not watching the same player.   Like I said, sometimes a simple adjustment, or a coaching pointer or two makes a lot of difference to a kid like this with physical attributes like he has.

[stobblebobby]

I'm a noob, but been following a while...

much more excited about Gipson than Diaz, but this is at least encouraging that he won't be like our last 7 footer from Florida:

Seven-foot center Adrian Diaz is a major sleeper in the 2011 class. In a class lacking high quality bigs, Diaz could become a priority in the near future. He is a long and has a developing offensive game. You can't teach size and Diaz has that in abundance. Playing for Gold Coast, Diaz has been moderately productive. Scoring inside, showing a decent face up game, blocking shots and rebounding his position. Look for his recruiting to pick up real soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5428044

 

[kso_FAN]

I'm a noob, but been following a while...

much more excited about Gipson than Diaz, but this is at least encouraging that he won't be like our last 7 footer from Florida:

Seven-foot center Adrian Diaz is a major sleeper in the 2011 class. In a class lacking high quality bigs, Diaz could become a priority in the near future. He is a long and has a developing offensive game. You can't teach size and Diaz has that in abundance. Playing for Gold Coast, Diaz has been moderately productive. Scoring inside, showing a decent face up game, blocking shots and rebounding his position. Look for his recruiting to pick up real soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5428044

 

Excellent first time use of  .

[jtksu]

I'm a noob, but been following a while...

much more excited about Gipson than Diaz, but this is at least encouraging that he won't be like our last 7 footer from Florida:

Seven-foot center Adrian Diaz is a major sleeper in the 2011 class. In a class lacking high quality bigs, Diaz could become a priority in the near future. He is a long and has a developing offensive game. You can't teach size and Diaz has that in abundance. Playing for Gold Coast, Diaz has been moderately productive. Scoring inside, showing a decent face up game, blocking shots and rebounding his position. Look for his recruiting to pick up real soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5428044

 

Excellent first time use of  .

I like to usse it when you're proving someone wrong, but trying to be humble about it.  Inside, you're gloating like crazy but, on the outside, you're just cool as a cucumber.

[kitten_mittons]

I'm a noob, but been following a while...

much more excited about Gipson than Diaz, but this is at least encouraging that he won't be like our last 7 footer from Florida:

Seven-foot center Adrian Diaz is a major sleeper in the 2011 class. In a class lacking high quality bigs, Diaz could become a priority in the near future. He is a long and has a developing offensive game. You can't teach size and Diaz has that in abundance. Playing for Gold Coast, Diaz has been moderately productive. Scoring inside, showing a decent face up game, blocking shots and rebounding his position. Look for his recruiting to pick up real soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5428044

 

Excellent first time use of  .

But horrible use of avatar.  I mean, powercat facing left?  lol.  He's right.  He is a n00b.

[jtksu]

I'm a noob, but been following a while...

much more excited about Gipson than Diaz, but this is at least encouraging that he won't be like our last 7 footer from Florida:

Seven-foot center Adrian Diaz is a major sleeper in the 2011 class. In a class lacking high quality bigs, Diaz could become a priority in the near future. He is a long and has a developing offensive game. You can't teach size and Diaz has that in abundance. Playing for Gold Coast, Diaz has been moderately productive. Scoring inside, showing a decent face up game, blocking shots and rebounding his position. Look for his recruiting to pick up real soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5428044

 

Excellent first time use of  .

But horrible use of avatar.  I mean, powercat facing left?  lol.  He's right.  He is a n00b.

QFT.  I didn't even notice that.  rough ridin' guy may as well just set fire to the  .    <-----These colors don't run, bitch!

[Fuktard]

I'm very comfortable when I hear "Diaz needs to be best friends with the strength and conditioning coach"...I'm guessing Greenie won't give him much of a choice.  If the kid has a body that can add weight (don't see JHR) then he could become a force with a few years under Scott.

[sys]

I'm very comfortable when I hear "Diaz needs to be best friends with the strength and conditioning coach"...I'm guessing Greenie won't give him much of a choice.  If the kid has a body that can add weight (don't see JHR) then he could become a force with a few years under Scott.

honestly, that isn't even the issue.  the thing is:  why take a 2011 project big, knowing full well that he has absolutely no chance to contribute as a freshman when you could take a position of need combo guard with a decent chance to contribute immediately?

knowing full well that 2012 is a very good class for bigs and there's a decent chance that you could get a 2012 big able to give you as soph what diaz could give you as a jr?

also knowing full well that there are always oppys for quality transfer and juco bigs in the spring if your whole plan goes to crap.

it just doesn't make any sense.

[steve dave]

I'm very comfortable when I hear "Diaz needs to be best friends with the strength and conditioning coach"...I'm guessing Greenie won't give him much of a choice.  If the kid has a body that can add weight (don't see JHR) then he could become a force with a few years under Scott.

honestly, that isn't even the issue.  the thing is:  why take a 2011 project big, knowing full well that he has absolutely no chance to contribute as a freshman when you could take a position of need combo guard with a decent chance to contribute immediately?

knowing full well that 2012 is a very good class for bigs and there's a decent chance that you could get a 2012 big able to give you as soph what diaz could give you as a jr?

also knowing full well that there are always oppys for quality transfer and juco bigs in the spring if your whole plan goes to crap.

it just doesn't make any sense.

Great summary of the situation we are in here folks ^

[CrushNasty]

Haven't looked back to the first mentions of Gipson, but I find many ways I can spin this as a great get... I'd be pretty darn ecstatic if we didn't have such a need for a guard.





edit: BTW, BigGipfan 

[steve dave]

Growing up, Thomas Gipson had a workout routine that would rival anything Kansas State strength coach Scott Greenawalt could concoct.

"In second grade I was 6-foot, but I was skinny," said Gipson, K-State's newest basketball commit. "So my pops told me to go out to the ranch."

The ranch was 100 acres of land near Seguin, Texas, where Gipson trained by flipping telephone poles, lifting logs and running sprints in the smothering South Texas heat. When he wasn't working out, Gipson would repair fences or drive the tractor.

"It's always like 100 degrees," Gipson said. "The worst thing was the monster truck tires, having to flip them for 50 yards."

The grueling routine helped mold Gipson into a 6-foot-7, 245-pound power forward who should mesh perfectly with K-State's physical brand of basketball. Gipson, a three-star prospect in the class of 2011, chose K-State over offers from Baylor, West Virginia, California and Iowa.

"When they see him, people think he should have played football," said Gipson's mother, Cassundra. "He's always been a pretty big fella. Instead of playing football, he's used to banging on the court."

K-State started recruiting Gipson when he was a sophomore in high school, and he formed a bond with assistant coach Matt Figger. The interest was strong enough that, during an unofficial visit to Baylor last year, Gipson was fixated on the road team. (K-State won the game 76-74 on two late free throws.)

"Thomas liked coaching style, liked the team, liked the way they worked together," Cassundra said.

The decision itself was easy enough.

"He told me, 'I think I want to go to K-State,'" Cassundra said. "I said, 'Are you sure?' He said, 'Yeah.'"

"Talking to the head coach, seeing him in the stands every single game, that was just a heads up," Thomas said.

Gipson gives K-State two 2011 commitments in the past few days. Adrian Diaz, a 6-foot-11 center from Miami, gave K-State a verbal pledge on Sunday.

http://cjonline.com/sports/basketball/2010-08-04/ksu_recruit_knows_how_to_work

[sys]

good meek article.  sad he's so lazy we only get these once a month or so.  :sigh:

[WillieWatanabe]

Figger?!

[steve dave]

Figger?!

anyone from Texas is Figs

[CNS]

I call BS on the "I was 6' in second grade". 

I am 6'-5" and was 5' in 3rd grade(still by far and away the tallest in my class at that time).  I don't remember when I wasn't the tallest in my grade.

No way unless he was 12 yrs old while in 2nd grade.

[steve dave]

I call BS on the "I was 6' in second grade". 

I am 6'-5" and was 5' in 3rd grade(still by far and away the tallest in my class at that time).  I don't remember when I wasn't the tallest in my grade.

No way unless he was 12 yrs old while in 2nd grade.

I think he was prolly just making the point that he was tall

[_33]

I call BS on the "I was 6' in second grade". 

I am 6'-5" and was 5' in 3rd grade(still by far and away the tallest in my class at that time).  I don't remember when I wasn't the tallest in my grade.

No way unless he was 12 yrs old while in 2nd grade.

Agreed.  And did you see the line about it ALWAYS being 100 degrees in Texas?  Is he saying that it is 100 degrees year 'round, even in the winter?  I don't buy it.  WE KNOW YOU ARE LYING THOMAS!!

[sys]

edit: BTW, BigGipfan 

his mother, i believe.  is on twitter anyways.

[threadkiller]

I'm very comfortable when I hear "Diaz needs to be best friends with the strength and conditioning coach"...I'm guessing Greenie won't give him much of a choice.  If the kid has a body that can add weight (don't see JHR) then he could become a force with a few years under Scott.

honestly, that isn't even the issue.  the thing is:  why take a 2011 project big, knowing full well that he has absolutely no chance to contribute as a freshman when you could take a position of need combo guard with a decent chance to contribute immediately?

Why do people keep saying that the commitment of one recruit means the elimination of another (especially at a different position)?  I can hardly wait for the  meltdown when the next commit is ARod.  I would be shocked to hear from one of these elitey guards that KSU has stopped recruiting him. 

Potential 2011 bigs = Wally, Freddy, JHR, Jamar (kind of).  If all return we've got 6 guys who could potentially play the 4/5 (not counting Victor O).  It's possible Jamar could be playing the 3 or at least splitting minutes there, so it's really 5 1/2 imo.  That's right where we should be scholarship #'s wise.  It's also possible that either Freddy or Wally blow up this season and look at their professional options.  We've heard over and over that Freddy expects to be a professional player, his standard of "ready" might be quite different from ours.  We might need 2 bigs in this class to cover our bases for depth if nothing else.  I can understand the argument of juco v. project.  However, the staff might not view Diaz as much of a project as we do right now (having never seen a second of tape on him).  Also, the need might be at the 5 in 11.  I haven't seen the juco 5 that we've shown any interest in. 

Compare that to our 2011 guard situation = Tay, Nick, Will, Juevol, Omari (if he stays), DPete (if he makes it), Rodney (We'll call him .5 like Jamar at 4).  I don't expect all those guys to be here in 11, but there are #'s right now.  Also, virtually 0 chance of any of those guys leaving for professional leagues (idk why, but I worry more about foreignish guys leaving for foreign league $).  Absolutely we take a guard (hell, maybe 2) if we think he'll contribute right away.  It's not a position though where we might HAVE to get one to not be short. 
 

knowing full well that 2012 is a very good class for bigs and there's a decent chance that you could get a 2012 big able to give you as soph what diaz could give you as a jr?

Another intimation that our scholarships are static 4 year commitments.  I'm sure we'll take at least 1 big in 12.  Also if the staff doesn't think diaz is progressing up to their expectations and a younger player would contribute more to the program...... 

also knowing full well that there are always oppys for quality transfer and juco bigs in the spring if your whole plan goes to crap.

it just doesn't make any sense.

We got a quality transfer to come in this year on a free trial, and possibly a quality juco to walk on.  In Frank we trust. 

[sys]

Why do people keep saying that the commitment of one recruit means the elimination of another (especially at a different position)?

'cause there are only 13 'ships.   elimination of someone on roster or some other recruit.   that's kind of exactly what it means.



notice when you talked about the on roster bigs you mentioned some maybe leaving for the pros.  when you talked about the on roster guards you talked about some maybe getting run because they sucked.  in a nutshell that's why kstate needs guards more than bigs in 2011.

[threadkiller]

When we go an offseason w/out at least one scholarship player transferring elsewhere I'll start to worry about the 13 scholarship limit.  Until then, I'll continue under the assumption that we'll have room for any player we really want and can get.  

Actually, I wouldn't say that any player Frank and staff have given a scholarship to so far has "sucked".  I remember "sucked".  Thankfully the standards now are much higher then alive.  The reason I said I don't expect all those guards back is more because the #'s/class (don't expect us to keep 6 scholarship players in the same class) then their being worthless. 

The numbers and potential numbers say we need bigs more then guards in 11.  I don't know how many different ways I can say this though.  We're going to take guard(s) in 11.   If you don't like a recruit because of the recruit, fire away.  If there are any other 4/5's we were in on that you really wanted, I could see the argument.  To say you don't like a recruit because you think it means we won't be able to get a really good recruit at another position is silly/naive.