fear of death

[PoetWarrior]

Eternal life is a much more terrifying prospect than death.

Without pain, joy becomes meaningless. Without death, life becomes meaningless. Mortality is our greatest gift; it makes everything more beautiful.

That's false. And you only say it because you've never experienced true perfection.



I haven't either, by the way.

[Dr Rick Daris]

i agree with chum in the fact that death sucks. i could live forever and love it. i could live forever and do nothing and love it. lock me up in a house by myself and i would enjoy it. living is just fantastic. dying would suck because it's not living. you don't get to think and do stuff when you are dead. i could think about stuff and do stuff and not think about stuff and not do stuff for ever and ever and be happy. happy is better than nothing and dead is nothing. if i was unhappy then dying would be better. i'm not.

Good point.  Most people do, in fact, do the same crap over and over again during their lifetimes and they love it.

If you could some how ensure that there would be no negative perceivable impact my spouse can go nuts for all I care.

Your entire life could be a fraud.  Every accomplishment you thought you'd made, every friend you thought you had, all the good things you thought you'd done, etc.  All of it could be a fraud, but provided that you're not aware of the fraud, your life is just as good as it would be had those things been real?  I don't buy it.

The thing is, it could be NOW.  You could have been kidnapped ten years, your brain removed from your skull and placed in a computer running a life simulation, while your entire family was tortured and everything you love destroyed.  You can't know that didn't happen.

that simulator thing sounds pretty good. link?

[chum1]

The thing is, it could be NOW.  You could have been kidnapped ten years, your brain removed from your skull and placed in a computer running a life simulation, while your entire family was tortured and everything you love destroyed.  You can't know that didn't happen.

My point is that my life would be worse if that was the case than it would be if it wasn't.  Whether or not I know it is the case or can know it is the case is irrelevant.

[Pete]

The thing is, it could be NOW.  You could have been kidnapped ten years, your brain removed from your skull and placed in a computer running a life simulation, while your entire family was tortured and everything you love destroyed.  You can't know that didn't happen.

My point is that my life would be worse if that was the case than it would be if it wasn't.  Whether or not I know it is the case or can know it is the case is irrelevant.

For me, that could not be more relevant. 

Immanuel Kant made the same argument as Chings (the "evil genius" story), only he attempted to use it as proof of the existence of God.  I agree with you that death sucks for loads of reasons, but I'm the guy in the Matrix who wants to be turned into the Rock Star and doesn't care that it will be "fake."

[chum1]

Immanuel Kant made the same argument as Chings (the "evil genius" story), only he attempted to use it as proof of the existence of God.  I agree with you that death sucks for loads of reasons, but I'm the guy in the Matrix who wants to be turned into the Rock Star and doesn't care that it will be "fake."

You're thinking of René Descartes.  And that wasn't part of his argument(s) for God's existence.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about The Matrix, fake rock stars, etc.

[Pete]

Immanuel Kant made the same argument as Chings (the "evil genius" story), only he attempted to use it as proof of the existence of God.  I agree with you that death sucks for loads of reasons, but I'm the guy in the Matrix who wants to be turned into the Rock Star and doesn't care that it will be "fake."

You're thinking of René Descartes.  And that wasn't part of his argument(s) for God's existence.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about The Matrix, fake rock stars, etc.

Ya, my bad on mixing up my dead philosophers. But, it WAS in ONE of his arguments for the existence of god.  Save your PI, smarty pants.  Plus, it invalidates nothing other than your perception...which you have already stated is of little value to you.

[TBL]

Immanuel Kant made the same argument as Chings (the "evil genius" story), only he attempted to use it as proof of the existence of God.  I agree with you that death sucks for loads of reasons, but I'm the guy in the Matrix who wants to be turned into the Rock Star and doesn't care that it will be "fake."

You're thinking of René Descartes.  And that wasn't part of his argument(s) for God's existence.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about The Matrix, fake rock stars, etc.

Belief in God, or a supreme being, intelligent creator, is extremely easy. Just walk outside on a dark winter night and look upward. Anyone, with a brain, looks upward and feels thankful for being given the opportunity to see the heavens. In feeling thankful, there has to be someone, something, to be thankful to. That would be, "God/creator/intelligent designer". This feeling has been felt since the first intelligent life on earth. Any opposing opinion is just an attempt to make someone feel more important than they truly are.  Just my .02.

[Pete]

Immanuel Kant made the same argument as Chings (the "evil genius" story), only he attempted to use it as proof of the existence of God.  I agree with you that death sucks for loads of reasons, but I'm the guy in the Matrix who wants to be turned into the Rock Star and doesn't care that it will be "fake."

You're thinking of René Descartes.  And that wasn't part of his argument(s) for God's existence.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about The Matrix, fake rock stars, etc.

Now I bothered to go look it up and reread it. Yep, it's in there.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about caring about your wife getting nailed behind your back.

['taterblast]

absolutely love how this thread turned out. great work all, keep it up.

loved the point by Pete about how he loves living, and would live forever. the example of the guy in the matrix wanting to be a rock star was also good.

[_33]

You guys ever see that movie where that guy got a wish and he wished to live forever but then his guts got tore open or something so he was there in a ton of pain and wouldn't die? 

No, but I did see this movie where these 2 women got a wish or a potion or something and got to live forever and by the end of the movie everyone they knew was dead and they had to wear a ton of makeup because their faces were all cracked and falling apart and stuff and then they tripped going down the stairs and they shattered and fell apart but they were still alive because their heads were on the ground and they were talking to each other.

[chum1]

Immanuel Kant made the same argument as Chings (the "evil genius" story), only he attempted to use it as proof of the existence of God.  I agree with you that death sucks for loads of reasons, but I'm the guy in the Matrix who wants to be turned into the Rock Star and doesn't care that it will be "fake."

You're thinking of René Descartes.  And that wasn't part of his argument(s) for God's existence.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about The Matrix, fake rock stars, etc.

Now I bothered to go look it up and reread it. Yep, it's in there.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about caring about your wife getting nailed behind your back.

It's in the book.  It's not part of one of those arguments.  It precedes them.

[Dugout DickStone]

A main point of religion is to make us fear death, and behave so death isn't a big deal.  So, if you don't believe = you shouldn't fear death except it is the absecence of being, which is kind of fun.

[Pete]

Immanuel Kant made the same argument as Chings (the "evil genius" story), only he attempted to use it as proof of the existence of God.  I agree with you that death sucks for loads of reasons, but I'm the guy in the Matrix who wants to be turned into the Rock Star and doesn't care that it will be "fake."

You're thinking of René Descartes.  And that wasn't part of his argument(s) for God's existence.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about The Matrix, fake rock stars, etc.

Now I bothered to go look it up and reread it. Yep, it's in there.  The fact that you would be so confused about it invalidates all of your other views about caring about your wife getting nailed behind your back.

It's in the book.  It's not part of one of those arguments.  It precedes them.

It's kinda the point of the "The Cartesian Circle" isn't it?   For eff's sake the class was over a decade ago, I'll take your word for it.  Still want to make the deal to be the Rock Star....will NOT look back.

[PoetWarrior]

[Trim]

If I never perceive it or any consequence then it effectively never happened.

So you don't care if your spouse cheats on you as long as you never find out, then, right? 

Sure i care, but not because of the event itself....only because there is a chance of a negative consequnce of some kind.  If you could some how ensure that there would be no negative perceivable impact my spouse can go nuts for all I care.

I've changed my mind.  MOAP is gonna be awesome.

[Benja]

Eternal life is a much more terrifying prospect than death.

Without pain, joy becomes meaningless. Without death, life becomes meaningless. Mortality is our greatest gift; it makes everything more beautiful.

That's false. And you only say it because you've never experienced true perfection.



I haven't either, by the way.

You may be absolutely right. Joy and pain, when reduced from their abstract form and speaking from a strictly clinical viewpoint, merely exist as chemicals in the brain anyways. I would argue that true joy in life is the result of many, many other factors that can't necessarily be accounted for or measured biologically; and a major example of one of these factors is the sense and ultimate knowledge that your days on this earth are limited, and therefore immeasurably more precious. Not to mention, an existence in which everyone lived forever, or certainly one in which some die and others live forever, would be a horrible, horrible reality.

Life and death are an absolute necessity to existence even as we, as consciously aware beings, naturally question and struggle with the meaning behind our own existence. The natural instinct to avoid death and our fear of loss of control and the unknown blind us to the truth right in front of our faces. Plus the guy was asking why death shouldn't be so scary and I'm trying to help the dude out here.