Author Topic: Is it really racism...  (Read 9367 times)

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Offline DQ12

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2018, 11:44:32 AM »
I also think holding ethnic/religious minorities to the same standards as majority is disingenuous
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why


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Offline sys

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2018, 11:54:21 AM »
i should let kk respond first, but i'm going to jump his response to assert that a reasonable reading of trumpism (cause or result, doesn't matter) is white americans deciding that they should act as a minority group rather than a majority group.
we understand it better now that the american century is over and some of us sound more and more like serbs.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2018, 12:13:34 PM »
Marrying someone of the same religion makes more sense than race. Because if you have the same religion, it's more likely you have the same beliefs in how you live your life and church-going schedule.

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2018, 12:14:48 PM »
And where you're going to hang out after you die.

Offline sys

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2018, 12:19:04 PM »
And where you're going to hang out after you die.

iirc, religions (just mainstream christians?, i know mormons, at least, disagree) believe death does them part married couples.
we understand it better now that the american century is over and some of us sound more and more like serbs.

Online chum1

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2018, 12:24:23 PM »
And where you're going to hang out after you die.

iirc, religions (just mainstream christians?, i know mormons, at least, disagree) believe death does them part married couples.

Only until they're both dead, right?

Offline sys

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2018, 12:26:14 PM »
Only until they're both dead, right?

i don't know.  i thought the sacrament was severed upon death, but i don't actually know that.
we understand it better now that the american century is over and some of us sound more and more like serbs.

Offline sys

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #57 on: May 23, 2018, 12:28:27 PM »
it might be blasphemy to say the sacrament is severed.  i should amend that to say the covenant is severed.
we understand it better now that the american century is over and some of us sound more and more like serbs.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #58 on: May 23, 2018, 12:39:44 PM »
lutherans believe death does them part. and they're like the nu-catholics so that probably also goes for catholics. unless it was one of the 95 things martin put their asses on blast for.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #59 on: May 23, 2018, 12:51:52 PM »
Quote
Wanting a child to not marry someone from another race is not racist.

 :sdeek:

I'm pretty fascinated how people would rather say stuff like this instead of "there is nothing wrong with being racist."  Like, if you're going to go that far why are you afraid of the term racist?

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2018, 12:56:14 PM »
lutherans believe death does them part. and they're like the nu-catholics so that probably also goes for catholics. unless it was one of the 95 things martin put their asses on blast for.

Pretty sure this is the case for most Christian denominations.  Still, I think most people believe/act as though they will be with their spouse in heaven, regardless of what their doctrine says.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2018, 12:57:02 PM »
Quote
Wanting a child to not marry someone from another race is not racist.

 :sdeek:

I'm pretty fascinated how people would rather say stuff like this instead of "there is nothing wrong with being racist."  Like, if you're going to go that far why are you afraid of the term racist?

These people are just unbelievably stupid. It’s a waste of time to try to rationalize what they say.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2018, 01:03:39 PM »
I love that now that everything has finally progressed, people on this board act like they didn't have grandparents like this.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2018, 01:20:39 PM »
Are you saying you feel compelled to defend the racist things your grandparents say?

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2018, 01:22:32 PM »
No, dumbass. You're really trying to bait today. Go back in the libs are going crazy thread and try to continue to defend that dumb b.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2018, 01:28:56 PM »
I love that now that everything has finally progressed, people on this board act like they didn't have grandparents like this.
my grandpa wasn't running for political office
i should let kk respond first, but i'm going to jump his response to assert that a reasonable reading of trumpism (cause or result, doesn't matter) is white americans deciding that they should act as a minority group rather than a majority group.
i don't know what you mean.  i read KK's comment to say that it's (at least) not as wrong for minority groups to want their children to marry within the race.  i don't understand how that's defensible. i could have misunderstood him.


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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2018, 04:13:38 PM »
I also think holding ethnic/religious minorities to the same standards as majority is disingenuous
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why

Because the cultural expectations for an Amish person or a Coptic Christian living in Egypt or a Somali immigrant living in western Kansas are going to be drastically different than some suburban Catholic that ends up marrying a mainline Protestant. There are a million reasons why they are different. There are lots of small ethnic/cultural minorities who have a language/ethnic identity/religion at risk of being lost and/or are currently threatened with extinction by force and I would give them quite a bit more latitude than I would a white ID guy from Ohio.
@bentren

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2018, 04:20:01 PM »
There are also lots of marriage expectations that families heap on kids that are not explicitly racist like this guy that started this topic but are obviously sectarian/classist/racist/et al. in practice that our culture looks past all the time so I don't know why someone would claim to be shocked that Lebanese parents mostly don't hope that their sons/daughters marry Felix Rex, but also are sometimes pleasantly surprised when they do!

My grandparents in-law threatened not to come to my wedding because it wasn't Catholic. It all worked out.
@bentren

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2018, 04:22:01 PM »
I also think holding ethnic/religious minorities to the same standards as majority is disingenuous
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why

Because the cultural expectations for an Amish person or a Coptic Christian living in Egypt or a Somali immigrant living in western Kansas are going to be drastically different than some suburban Catholic that ends up marrying a mainline Protestant. There are a million reasons why they are different. There are lots of small ethnic/cultural minorities who have a language/ethnic identity/religion at risk of being lost and/or are currently threatened with extinction by force and I would give them quite a bit more latitude than I would a white ID guy from Ohio.

It seems to me that going to great lengths to marry within a minority culture or religion might be the best way to ensure its extinction.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2018, 04:22:25 PM »
Mrs Wacky's grandparents were pissed I wasn't Catholic and that we did a destination wedding. When we had the reception back home, we got blessed in the Catholic church to make them feel better about it. I then showed them my devil horns afterwards.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2018, 04:35:16 PM »
I also think holding ethnic/religious minorities to the same standards as majority is disingenuous
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why

Because the cultural expectations for an Amish person or a Coptic Christian living in Egypt or a Somali immigrant living in western Kansas are going to be drastically different than some suburban Catholic that ends up marrying a mainline Protestant. There are a million reasons why they are different. There are lots of small ethnic/cultural minorities who have a language/ethnic identity/religion at risk of being lost and/or are currently threatened with extinction by force and I would give them quite a bit more latitude than I would a white ID guy from Ohio.
There are also lots of marriage expectations that families heap on kids that are not explicitly racist like this guy that started this topic but are obviously sectarian/classist/racist/et al. in practice that our culture looks past all the time so I don't know why someone would claim to be shocked that Lebanese parents mostly don't hope that their sons/daughters marry Felix Rex, but also are sometimes pleasantly surprised when they do!

My grandparents in-law threatened not to come to my wedding because it wasn't Catholic. It all worked out.
I'm still not sure what you mean.

What makes it okay for a somali immigrant to strongly encourage (demand?) that their children marry within their own culture (in the name of preservation), but it's not okay for the guy who started this?  Are you just assigning weight to the perceived underlying motivation ("concern for losing the culture" vs. "racism")?

 Maybe because Amish people are more closely tied to their culture (than say a suburban Catholic), so you're willing to excuse actions we'd otherwise condemn? 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 04:41:55 PM by Dlew12 »


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Offline michigancat

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2018, 04:57:34 PM »
I haven't thought too deeply on the issue but it just feels worse for a white person in the US to make this demand than an ethnic minority due to the history of white people oppressing others and it feels like a play at controlling that power. In a vacuum, yeah, it's just as bad for a black insist their children marry within the race, but that vacuum doesn't exist.

Sys's point on whites feeling and starting to behave as minorities kind of makes sense, but that's not quite what's happening with the white southern judge. Or is it???

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2018, 05:01:16 PM »
I think a minority stipulating that his children have to marry another person of the same race to receive any inheritance is just as racist and wrong as a white guy doing it. Is it really that hard to just let people live their lives?

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2018, 05:30:10 PM »
I don't like categorical imperatives, but if I had to design one I would basically say any adult should be able to freely marry any other adult. That said, I think nearly everyone experiences some expectations from their relatives about who they marry and they are

"obviously sectarian/classist/racist/et al. in practice that our culture looks past all the time so I don't know why someone would claim to be shocked "

That said, there are obvious differences is again in degree and context.  The judge was particularly ham fisted in his bigotry (which is especially galling considering his role as an impartial justice). It is worse to disown your child than to refuse to attend or financially punish them than to simply encourage. The underlying reasons also matter, invoking the Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, or Amish ideas about living apart plays better than standard white supremacy.

I don't feel the need to condemn everyone on this, but do you think it is a fair comparison between an Indian family refusing to pay for a wedding with a match chosen by their son and this guy?  An Amish disowning their son that leaves the community vs. a white evangelical family disowning their gay son?

I think context matters a lot even for stuff I would condemn for within my own family or social group.
@bentren

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Is it really racism...
« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2018, 05:32:33 PM »
To be clear I don't think it is "right" for a Somali family to cut off their son financially in an "apples to apples" comparison to the Texas guy, but I also don't think it is equivalent.
@bentren