Let's talk about Elon Musk

[DQ12]

Pro life Abolitionist people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide.  If you believe that abortion slavery is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion slavery then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whatever

You can draw parallels between every perceived injustice and the lack of "crazy crap" we see (which is virtually none, outside of a week or two in 2020).  In my quoted example above, there were plenty of genuine abolitionists in the antebellum US who weren't going the John Brown route.  Plenty of genuine civil rights advocates and anti-vietnam war people who still held down jobs and weren't firebombing or marching every single weekend and led pretty normal day-to-day lives. "Doing crazy crap to stop it" is just not typically how people operate in the face of controversial laws/issues they deem unjust.    Murdering George Tiller was pretty crazy crap, imo -- and (aside from the discrete murder, which (to be clear) I view as morally unjustified) I think that was counterproductive to the anti-abortion cause. 

If you're advocating for some kind of watered-down "crazy crap," like marching in the streets or protests, the March for Life in Washington DC was last weekend.  Abortion clinics ubiquitously have protestors outside.  If that's not what you're talking about either, then I don't really know what specifically you mean by "crazy crap." 

As for my views, I recognize it as a profound injustice and give money to causes that attempt to reduce it.  For the record, I think the Anglican cleric's (?) gesture in the video is idiotic.  I hate it.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Comparing abortion to slavery probably isn't the most sensical response to a pro-life clergyman letting us know he's a Nazi.

[DQ12]

Comparing abortion to slavery probably isn't the most sensical response to a pro-life clergyman letting us know he's a Nazi.

Do you know how analogies work?

You can genuinely oppose grave injustices without doing "crazy crap."

[catastrophe]

Pro life Abolitionist people have to be crazy or they have to be callously indifferent to a genocide.  If you believe that abortion slavery is exactly the same as any other kind of murder and you’re not out there doing crazy crap to stop abortion slavery then you’re somebody who just sits around and watches genocides and says oh eff whatever

You can draw parallels between every perceived injustice and the lack of "crazy crap" we see (which is virtually none, outside of a week or two in 2020).  In my quoted example above, there were plenty of genuine abolitionists in the antebellum US who weren't going the John Brown route.  Plenty of genuine civil rights advocates and anti-vietnam war people who still held down jobs and weren't firebombing or marching every single weekend and led pretty normal day-to-day lives. "Doing crazy crap to stop it" is just not typically how people operate in the face of controversial laws/issues they deem unjust.    Murdering George Tiller was pretty crazy crap, imo -- and (aside from the discrete murder, which (to be clear) I view as morally unjustified) I think that was counterproductive to the anti-abortion cause. 

If you're advocating for some kind of watered-down "crazy crap," like marching in the streets or protests, the March for Life in Washington DC was last weekend.  Abortion clinics ubiquitously have protestors outside.  If that's not what you're talking about either, then I don't really know what specifically you mean by "crazy crap." 

As for my views, I recognize it as a profound injustice and give money to causes that attempt to reduce it.  For the record, I think the Anglican cleric's (?) gesture in the video is idiotic.  I hate it.

Well said. I don’t think Pete is actually advocating for more Tiller murders so I’ll chalk it up to a poor attempt to make a watered down point.

[Pete]

I think that there are people who think that abortion is identical to just murdering random sentient humans on the street.  Those people often talk in terms of saying that abortion is “murder.”

I don’t understand how those people can just go about their lives while all these murders are happening. Just donating to some causes that help stop murders on that scale seems woefully insufficient.

I do not agree with them that abortion is murder. If I did, it is my belief that I would be very immoral for not doing a great deal to stop those murders. I think it’s insufficient to just walk in a parade or write a check however I must restate that I disagree that it is murder. I do not think it is murder

[DQ12]

I think that there are people who think that abortion is identical to just murdering random sentient humans on the street.  Those people often talk in terms of saying that abortion is “murder.”

I don’t understand how those people can just go about their lives while all these murders are happening. Just donating to some causes that help stop murders on that scale seems willfully insufficient.

I do not agree with them that abortion is murder. If I did, it is my belief that I would be very immoral for not doing a great deal to stop those murders. I think it’s insufficient to just walk in a parade or write a check however I must restate that I disagree that it is murder. I do not think it is murder

OK.  What would you do?

[star seed 7]

I used to agree with Pete on this but I'm directly in the dlew camp now

[Pete]

I think that there are people who think that abortion is identical to just murdering random sentient humans on the street.  Those people often talk in terms of saying that abortion is “murder.”

I don’t understand how those people can just go about their lives while all these murders are happening. Just donating to some causes that help stop murders on that scale seems willfully insufficient.

I do not agree with them that abortion is murder. If I did, it is my belief that I would be very immoral for not doing a great deal to stop those murders. I think it’s insufficient to just walk in a parade or write a check however I must restate that I disagree that it is murder. I do not think it is murder

OK.  What would you do?

I don’t know. It depends upon the scale of the murders. What’s the scale of the alleged murders being done here? probably require something like joining the French resistance, wouldn’t it?

[Pete]

I used to agree with Pete on this but I'm directly in the dlew camp now

How do you mean? You do think it’s murder or you don’t think it’s murder. For the record I do not think it’s murder.

[star seed 7]

I used to agree with Pete on this but I'm directly in the dlew camp now

How do you mean? You do think it’s murder or you don’t think it’s murder. For the record I do not think it’s murder.

The crazy crap part. I agree with you on abortion.

[Pete]

It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?

[Pete]

What would we have expected of someone who lived across the street from Auschwitz?

[BIG APPLE CAT]

I think for most folks that are concerned about where things are headed under the current regime - they don’t want to end up being German citizens that were forced to tour the concentration camps and bear witness to the atrocities perpetrated by their leaders. They don’t want to be the people who got brutalized by the liberating army sweeping through because they were viewed as no better than their goose-stepping countrymen.

And for the purpose of this analogy being forced to tour the concentration camps would be analogous to waking up one day to the realization that huh, I guess they sure did do a fascism after all. Because power has been completely consolidated and we went ahead and got rid of elections and death is literally the only thing stopping these guys from doing whatever tf they want.

But I think maybe what Pete was getting at was “yes, I definitely want to avoid that outcome, but I don’t want to have to be an active participant in operation Valkyrie to achieve that end. So like, yeah, what is the average citizen to do? Marching in a parade or making a donation of $19 a month - that’s just 63¢ a day - is little more than a fart in the wind.

Last time, the consolation was “ok but at the end of the day the guard rails DID hold” and this time on his first day in office it’s like “what’s with all these guard rails??  lmao High time we got rid of all these dadgum guard rails! Hahaaa”

[mocat]

It would seem that if a person believes that abortion is the exact same as any other kind of murder, then they have to make this their number one issue when it comes to voting. unless there’s another topic that is more significant than a crap ton of murders. Said differently, People who believe that abortion is murder are forced to be single issue voters aren’t they?

yes and i think history has proven that to be the case.

[Pete]

Well, I was sort of just taking some pot shots at the whole abortion thing which is played out my bad

[CNS]

What would we have expected of someone who lived across the street from Auschwitz?

Or who's friend, brother, and chick you used to date in college all worked at Auschwitz...

[Pete]

Yeah, I mean it’s a fascinating implication of arguing for equivalence between abortion and run-of-the-mill murder

[mocat]

the genocide in gaza is maybe a decent comparison. there are civilians being murdered by the IDF with direct and indirect permission & aide from the united states government. what else can we do besides protest and vote?

[Pete]

the genocide in gaza is maybe a decent comparison. there are civilians being murdered by the IDF with direct and indirect permission & aide from the united states government. what else can we do besides protest and vote?

It’s a fair question. I mean at some point the atrocities get so big that it would be unconscionable to go about our daily lives without doing something drastic like signing up for a militia or being like that tiller guy or something like that.

[mocat]

What would we have expected of someone who lived across the street from Auschwitz?

Or who's friend, brother, and chick you used to date in college all worked at Auschwitz...

not a good comparison because those people presumably would be afraid to speak up for fear of being auschwitz'd themselves. anyone worried about abortion is at no risk of themselves being aborted.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

Yeah, I mean it’s a fascinating implication of arguing for equivalence between abortion and run-of-the-mill murder

For certain European citizens I don’t believe the procedure was elective

[Pete]

What would we have expected of someone who lived across the street from Auschwitz?

Or who's friend, brother, and chick you used to date in college all worked at Auschwitz...

not a good comparison because those people presumably would be afraid to speak up for fear of being auschwitz'd themselves. anyone worried about abortion is at no risk of themselves being aborted.

I suppose that’s more of the French resistance example of something that one could do

[michigancat]

I thought what was most shocking about the Pro Life leader doing a Nazi salute was the absolute glee it garnered from the Pro-Life crowd. They weren't just applauding the speech, they clearly reacted to the Nazi salute. Just disgusting and honestly scary.

[Pete]

I thought what was most shocking about the Pro Life leader doing a Nazi salute was the absolute glee it garnered from the Pro-Life crowd. They weren't just applauding the speech, they clearly reacted to the Nazi salute. Just disgusting and honestly scary.

I think they would probably say that they do not think it’s a Nazi salute, and that they were mocking those who did think it was a Nazi salute. But still seemed really inappropriate in either case. It limited the effectiveness of their message, but I suppose they might say they don’t care about communicating to those who do not share their beliefs in total.

[CNS]

I thought what was most shocking about the Pro Life leader doing a Nazi salute was the absolute glee it garnered from the Pro-Life crowd. They weren't just applauding the speech, they clearly reacted to the Nazi salute. Just disgusting and honestly scary.

I think they would probably say that they do not think it’s a Nazi salute, and that they were mocking those who did think it was a Nazi salute..

This is a huge part of the maga problem.  So many ppl are willing to let so much go just to troll others.