Author Topic: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang  (Read 14933 times)

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Offline michigancat

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #175 on: January 14, 2025, 10:33:08 PM »
I think any single digit game the rest of the way is a moral victory. Cheer for less than 10! It can make it interesting if my experience on terrible teams has taught me anything

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #176 on: January 15, 2025, 02:39:39 AM »
If you bet the moneyline of K-State's opponent each game between now and the end of the season, there's no way you lose money after it's all said and done, right?

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #177 on: January 15, 2025, 06:16:29 AM »
If you bet the moneyline of K-State's opponent each game between now and the end of the season, there's no way you lose money after it's all said and done, right?
The juice might not be worth the squeeze my boy

Offline wetwillie

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #178 on: January 15, 2025, 06:22:09 AM »
We covered the spread at least
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Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #179 on: January 15, 2025, 08:10:24 AM »
Where is gE opinion at these days on the question of whether or not Tang is a good basketball coach?
The 22-23 team did a lot of the things that well-coached teams do -- win games in OT, get points out of timeouts and BLOB plays, etc. Was that just a function of catching lightning in a bottle with Johnson + Nowell?
This team doesn't show any signs of good coaching. What gives?

Offline michigancat

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #180 on: January 15, 2025, 08:36:12 AM »
Where is gE opinion at these days on the question of whether or not Tang is a good basketball coach?
The 22-23 team did a lot of the things that well-coached teams do -- win games in OT, get points out of timeouts and BLOB plays, etc. Was that just a function of catching lightning in a bottle with Johnson + Nowell?
This team doesn't show any signs of good coaching. What gives?

My worry is they are bad recruiters. The roster is absolutely terrible

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2025, 08:52:28 AM »
Yes, this.

Also, has the rebounding has been consistently bad the entire time?

Offline Kid In the Hall

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #182 on: January 15, 2025, 08:56:55 AM »
I don't think they're bad recruiters - most of the players on this team had other good offers.

I think they completely whiffed on roster construction this year (and didn't exactly set the world on fire last year, either).

And, subsequently, because these puzzle pieces don't fit together, they don't have any answers on how to fix it.

Offline michigancat

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Re: It%u2019s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #183 on: January 15, 2025, 09:06:43 AM »
I don't think they're bad recruiters - most of the players on this team had other good offers.

I think they completely whiffed on roster construction this year (and didn't exactly set the world on fire last year, either).

And, subsequently, because these puzzle pieces don't fit together, they don't have any answers on how to fix it.

yeah fair to say they are good salespeople but I consider roster construction/player fit/player retention to be part of recruiting. Like I don't see any of these guys being a primary scorer on any high-major tournament team.

Offline meow meow

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #184 on: January 15, 2025, 09:20:35 AM »
anyone know where this team would show up on a playhard chart?  i admittedly haven't watched much

Offline michigancat

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #185 on: January 15, 2025, 09:34:25 AM »
anyone know where this team would show up on a playhard chart?  i admittedly haven't watched much

Bad, they are also very lazy. At least the "leaders" are.

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #186 on: January 15, 2025, 09:40:58 AM »
anyone know where this team would show up on a playhard chart?  i admittedly haven't watched much

Bad, they are also very lazy. At least the "leaders" are.
This is a function of bad coaching, right?

Offline michigancat

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #187 on: January 15, 2025, 10:18:19 AM »
anyone know where this team would show up on a playhard chart?  i admittedly haven't watched much

Bad, they are also very lazy. At least the "leaders" are.
This is a function of bad coaching, right?

For sure. But I thought the teams played hard the two prior years

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #188 on: January 15, 2025, 10:32:37 AM »
I think we got a bunch of straws to stir the drink but nobody who wants to take a sip

Offline pissclams

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It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #189 on: January 15, 2025, 10:34:28 AM »
Where is gE opinion at these days on the question of whether or not Tang is a good basketball coach?
The 22-23 team did a lot of the things that well-coached teams do -- win games in OT, get points out of timeouts and BLOB plays, etc. Was that just a function of catching lightning in a bottle with Johnson + Nowell?
This team doesn't show any signs of good coaching. What gives?
above average recruiters, below average coaching, terrible gamblers

i think good coaches can perform poorly and that’s what is happening with us the last two seasons

recruiting: he obviously has struggled with assembling a roster and identifying the best players for his team, but he has brought in a lot of talent that he thought he wanted so that’s actually a positive

coaching: last season he did what he could after failing at building a strong roster.   this season he’s not made necessary changes after seeing his team struggle and he continues to jam a square peg into a round hole.  this season has been a complete coaching failure and I hope he can see that but i’m not optimistic that he realizes where the train left the track
« Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 10:38:03 AM by pissclams »


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Offline BIG APPLE CAT

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #190 on: January 15, 2025, 11:14:19 AM »
Yes, this.

Also, has the rebounding has been consistently bad the entire time?

pretty sure its been an issue the entire time. I distinctly remember that ncaa tourney game against kentucky where that one dude had more o-rebs than like, our entire team had rebounds. (ok thats probably a bit of hyperbole but yes, so far all 3 of these tang teams have been not great at rebounding)

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #191 on: January 15, 2025, 11:22:20 AM »
Most of the 3s in that stretch were pretty decent shots. The turnovers would be unfathomably bad for a high school team

Castillo shooting is never a good shot at this point.

And after the first two or three didn't go down, have some situational awareness and drive the ball.

We scored 4 effing points in the last 9 minutes of this basketball game.

Good shot, bad shot, whatever - that's a colossally poor performance by the coaches and the players. It's just so completely inept.

I don't know what you expect anyone to do other than blow up the roster

That's just it, blowing up the roster might lead to the same issues. I think they can make this work with the guys graduating and just a couple of other transfers. I think a lot of the returning pieces are good, but need less usage. Could you imagine how frustrated by #myguy DNG if we had to rely on him to produce as a freshman or sophomore on this roster? I think we've seen enough from guys like Hausen, Mobi, Ugo, CJ, and Castillo to see that they are high major players, particularly with another year of development. I know that Castillo was putrid last night, and has been the worst 3 point shooter in D1 basketball since the Wichita State game, 0-17 since then, but he was 6-10 from three the two games he played before that, and despite the struggles, he isn't scared and doesn't back down, and I think that's really important for a young guard. I also want Dug back, but wouldn't be crushed if he didn't come back. He's mever going to be anything close to Markquis, but he can be a really good energy guy if he buys into the culture of a program. If he were to come back for a second year, I think that would be a good sign of maturity from him.

That being said, the big flaw here is all of these guys would need to return next year in a support role, that means, the coaches would have to go 5 for 5 in finding starters that fit well together.

I don't think they're bad recruiters - most of the players on this team had other good offers.

I think they completely whiffed on roster construction this year (and didn't exactly set the world on fire last year, either).

And, subsequently, because these puzzle pieces don't fit together, they don't have any answers on how to fix it.

yeah fair to say they are good salespeople but I consider roster construction/player fit/player retention to be part of recruiting. Like I don't see any of these guys being a primary scorer on any high-major tournament team.

I wonder about their evaluation. Are they considering how these transfers will fit into their culture and play together, or are they just getting guys with shiny offers? They struck oil in 2022, but the last two transfer classes have been a disaster. I don't care much about the offers of this class, but it's filled with role players, and no dawgs. The best player is a career role player.

Offline michigancat

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #192 on: January 15, 2025, 12:09:17 PM »
Most of the 3s in that stretch were pretty decent shots. The turnovers would be unfathomably bad for a high school team

Castillo shooting is never a good shot at this point.

And after the first two or three didn't go down, have some situational awareness and drive the ball.

We scored 4 effing points in the last 9 minutes of this basketball game.

Good shot, bad shot, whatever - that's a colossally poor performance by the coaches and the players. It's just so completely inept.

I don't know what you expect anyone to do other than blow up the roster

That's just it, blowing up the roster might lead to the same issues. I think they can make this work with the guys graduating and just a couple of other transfers. I think a lot of the returning pieces are good, but need less usage. Could you imagine how frustrated by #myguy DNG if we had to rely on him to produce as a freshman or sophomore on this roster? I think we've seen enough from guys like Hausen, Mobi, Ugo, CJ, and Castillo to see that they are high major players, particularly with another year of development. I know that Castillo was putrid last night, and has been the worst 3 point shooter in D1 basketball since the Wichita State game, 0-17 since then, but he was 6-10 from three the two games he played before that, and despite the struggles, he isn't scared and doesn't back down, and I think that's really important for a young guard. I also want Dug back, but wouldn't be crushed if he didn't come back. He's mever going to be anything close to Markquis, but he can be a really good energy guy if he buys into the culture of a program. If he were to come back for a second year, I think that would be a good sign of maturity from him.

That being said, the big flaw here is all of these guys would need to return next year in a support role, that means, the coaches would have to go 5 for 5 in finding starters that fit well together.

I don't think they're bad recruiters - most of the players on this team had other good offers.

I think they completely whiffed on roster construction this year (and didn't exactly set the world on fire last year, either).

And, subsequently, because these puzzle pieces don't fit together, they don't have any answers on how to fix it.

yeah fair to say they are good salespeople but I consider roster construction/player fit/player retention to be part of recruiting. Like I don't see any of these guys being a primary scorer on any high-major tournament team.

I wonder about their evaluation. Are they considering how these transfers will fit into their culture and play together, or are they just getting guys with shiny offers? They struck oil in 2022, but the last two transfer classes have been a disaster. I don't care much about the offers of this class, but it's filled with role players, and no dawgs. The best player is a career role player.

Yes exactly

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #193 on: January 15, 2025, 12:26:02 PM »
I've been under the impression that we've struck out on the scorers we were after in the portal.  Battle from Arkansas was one that I thought we had and would've made this team much better, imo.  Then we desperately overpay for the role players and try to talk ourselves into them.  I think a lot of our guys would have playing time on any NCAA tourney roster, they would just be getting 10 minutes less than they get with us.

Offline CNS

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #194 on: January 15, 2025, 12:39:26 PM »
I think Tang is a culture guy and maybe he thinks providing the right culture will make kids play the way he wants. I think that could be true if the culture was already established and not reset to zero every spring.

I think Tang is an excellent Good Coach but sorely needs a good Bad Coach.

Also, I am also not convinced completely of their eval.  Season 1 they hit with Cam, Desi, DNg, and rolled the dice and won big on Keyonte. If the latter didn’t pay out, it would have been a different year.

This year is definitely just a bunch of 3rd or 4th option guys being asked to lead the charge and they have no biz doing so. Coleman should be spending his time losing his guy off ball when his defender is paying too much attention to the point guard we should have(Dai Dai), rather than acting like the point guard.


If we left CJ and Max alone and kept Cam and Dai Dai, we would be a pretty good team.

Offline I_have_purplewood

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #195 on: January 15, 2025, 12:41:52 PM »


I wonder about their evaluation. Are they considering how these transfers will fit into their culture and play together, or are they just getting guys with shiny offers? They struck oil in 2022, but the last two transfer classes have been a disaster. I don't care much about the offers of this class, but it's filled with role players, and no dawgs. The best player is a career role player.
[/quote]

I think this is the biggest issue by far.  We totally whiffed on the players we brought in this year because of bad evaluation or something else.  It's discouraging because it will be tough to continue to get the kind of NIL money we did this last year if it continues.  I just don't know what the incentive is to some of these guys who get paid so handsomely?  If you're not pro material I could see it being easy to quit on a team that doesn't have a chance of appearing in a tournament of some sort? :dunno:
Fifteen minutes later, when the Kansas locker room opened its doors to the media, the Jayhawks were still crying. Literally, bawling. All of them. I've never seen anything like it, and I've seen devastated college locker rooms -- after losses in the Final Four, the national championship game -- ever

Offline CNS

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #196 on: January 15, 2025, 12:46:31 PM »
Tang spent several of our early post game conf saying Coleman needed to come to him. He later said that this was a mistake and that Tang was going to move towards Coleman.

This is something he stretched out across several weeks. It was a thought he held and considered for a long time through weeks of evaluation, after having seen Coleman in practice for at least a month.

Every game, for a while now, I wonder what the eff was he even talking about?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2025, 01:30:22 PM by CNS »

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #197 on: January 15, 2025, 12:55:03 PM »
Is it possible to build a good program by developing high school guys in the portal era? David Castillo, Buddy Rich and Taj Manning are the only guys on the roster who were brought in out of high school, correct?

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #198 on: January 15, 2025, 01:26:35 PM »
I feel like a lot of this is my fault.  :cry:

Offline nicname

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Re: It’s time to have a conversation about Jerome Tang
« Reply #199 on: January 15, 2025, 01:50:45 PM »
Where is gE opinion at these days on the question of whether or not Tang is a good basketball coach?
The 22-23 team did a lot of the things that well-coached teams do -- win games in OT, get points out of timeouts and BLOB plays, etc. Was that just a function of catching lightning in a bottle with Johnson + Nowell?
This team doesn't show any signs of good coaching. What gives?

My worry is they are bad recruiters. The roster is absolutely terrible

I think the staff were good to excellent recruiters under the old system. I truly believe they were excellent culture and program building guys under the old system. I think they’ve had a hard time adjusting to the new world of college athletics and swung and missed pretty hard this past offseason.

I think they’ve can have great success. They already have had success. Hope they figure it out.
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