Author Topic: Who should the dems blame?  (Read 7450 times)

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Offline Cire

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2024, 07:41:01 PM »

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2024, 08:45:14 PM »
David Shor had $700 million to spend against Trump. Maybe popularism is to blame?

Offline steve dave

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2024, 08:46:20 PM »
David Shor had $700 million to spend against Trump. Maybe popularism is to blame?

maybe make other things popular? (eat my ass sys)

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2024, 11:37:48 PM »

Donald Trump

Offline 114Hickory

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2024, 07:47:10 AM »
I fully believe the main difference in messaging involves the "We see you" republican approach compared to the "We see us" democratic approach.  I have no illusion that Trump or the republican party see anyone in any real way but they do a great job of communicating that they do.  Kamala Harris and the democrats made no discernable effort to connect with everyman.

Another issue, I believe, is that we are living in an era of story and "relationship."  Republicans seem to have better stories, true or not, than democrats.  They also have a single person, with whom people can allegedly relate, manifesting what they seem to value.  That's relationship.  Democrats present as unrelatable in many ways and there is no single person in whom people can invest.  I'm not saying this is healthy or right.  There is nothing genuine in the "relationship" the republican party offers and I think the faux connection will hurt the party in the long run.  But they sell this well, and I assume, very intentionally.  Democrats can learn something from this.  I would just hope that if they do, it's actually something real that they offer and not just a marketing strategy. 

In addition, the republican party wears being common and ordinary as a badge.  That resonates with ordinary people of all backgrounds and since nearly everyone is ordinary, it's a big deal.  The democrats seem to be in a detached circlejerk reveling in their superior intelligence and knowledge of all things.  It's even shown up in this thread.  I'm not unintelligent, having earned a terminal degree (which I think is really as much about opportunity and persistence as intelligence) but I'm not an expert in everything. I'm not a climate scientist.  I'm not an economist.  I'm not an expert in geopolitics.  I can research those topics and I do.  I believe I have informed opinions on them.  But, expecting everyone to study everything is unreasonable.  If I was doing any work with either party, I'd encourage them to provide some scaffolding for ordinary people, like me, to understand these concepts in such a way as they can make an informed decision.  Assuming people are not intelligent enough to understand these things is inaccurate, condescending, and an ineffective political posture to take.

Also, the appeal that both major parties make to outliers is frustrating and a terrible way to write policy.  "Border-crossers" killing suburban, white women is an outlier.  12 year-olds having abortions is an outlier.  That messaging seems to work with the already decided but it's abhorrent to me.  It's the opposite of addressing the "middle."  What is normative?  What can we do to make things better for everyone, as much as that's possible?  There is little appeal to that made by either side.

The fact that the people have ceded power to the two major candidates who ran for president is discouraging.  It's embarrassing to me that these were our options.

Finally, I have zero belief that anyone at the higher levels of politics has any interest at all in the well-being and opportunities of people in this country.  My bias is that they are all about themselves, power acquisition, and generating perpetually increasing financial resources.  Maybe I'm a cynic.  But I will own that.  I'm the voter many people hate.  I couldn't vote for either with any integrity.  That's just me though.  I don't question the integrity or rationale of anyone else's voting decisions.

Real change happens at the grassroots level.  I don't hope for and wait for policy changes made by unaffected politicians.  I just do my work and place my hope in having a positive impact on the people and communities with whom I engage. 

« Last Edit: November 09, 2024, 08:08:48 AM by 114Hickory »

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #80 on: November 09, 2024, 07:49:47 AM »
Did. Not. Read
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Offline Spracne

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #81 on: November 09, 2024, 07:56:14 AM »
Did read.
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Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #82 on: November 09, 2024, 08:02:08 AM »
Dems aligning with LGBTQ+ movement cost them white working class and latino males.

I'm sorry but what did they do to align with LGBTQ in this campaign?

eh, the campaign, not much I guess. But the average voter see Harris through the lens of the Biden presidency. So having Rachel Lavine as health whatever, having Dylan Mulvaney come in for interviews, having a pride day go really poorly at the white house, it's low hanging fruit as a campaign strategy for Trump campaign.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #83 on: November 09, 2024, 08:20:32 AM »
Quote from: Spracne link=topic=[emoji[emoji[emoji638
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Did read.
I thought it was a nice post too.

I think at the core, the dems don’t really offer much to people and don’t have clear convictions that they are willing to stand behind.

The Republicans were successful “your life feels uncertain and you are worried these are the reasons why and we will fight them for you.”

They knew who their enemies were, they told you who to blame for the problems and they made their case.

The dems said Trump was the enemy and we should be scared of him but then they made their campaign pitch to “Nikki Haley voters” and tried to blur the differences between themselves and Trump on immigration.

Trump says “immigrants are raping and killing our women and destroying our country, they are bringing in drugs and ruining our economy. I’m going to be deporting them, we’re rounding them up and getting them out of here!”

Dems said “we tried to pass an immigration bill but Trump didn’t want to!”

Again, Biden will go down as an F tier president so maybe Kamala was doomed by him anyway, u will listen to that. But the dems ran a dogshit campaign.

Offline chum1

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2024, 10:04:12 AM »
I don't think any of that matters. History is full of examples of people failing to dissuade other people from buying into the white, Christian nationalism type of stuff. (Thinking of the race/ethnic/religion particulars as incidental variables here.)

We've had three elections now in which people have clearly said that they're super into this stuff. They just don't seem very persuadable to me.

Offline Kat Kid

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Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2024, 11:42:06 AM »
Let’s accept your premise that the country too racist or sexist to elect Kamala

-if Trump is such an existential threat then don’t nominate Kamala

-explain how Trump made big gains among not just minorities but everyone

Trump is not afraid of naming enemies and saying who is to blame for why YOUR life is bad. He isn’t afraid of getting yelled at, when Trump gets attacked it just becomes self-reinforcing that people are trying to stop him from fighting for you. It is the same move that Bernie did, it is very different in tone from what Obama did but the same basic premise that there was this group of politicians in Washington that were trying to privatize social security, that they wanted to continue to deny people health care because of pre existing conditions and that he was willing to fight for you to get it.

Go ahead and let me in on how Kamala made that case. She had some momentum after Biden bowed out, she had some momentum from the debate then she went on the view and said she said she couldn’t name anything different she would do differently from Biden and didn’t make a case.

What was the policy? Who was she going to fight? “we won’t go back” is only half the message.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2024, 12:02:25 PM »
Love how Trump gets away with literally anything and KK is over here dissecting the body and pointing to one question in a daytime interview 6 weeks ago as the cause of Kamala's death. Sorry, Kat Komrade, but I think people are just really dumb and/or don't pay much attention (in addition to whatever -isms you like).

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Offline michigancat

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2024, 12:16:02 PM »
Love how Trump gets away with literally anything and KK is over here dissecting the body and pointing to one question in a daytime interview 6 weeks ago as the cause of Kamala's death. Sorry, Kat Komrade, but I think people are just really dumb and/or don't pay much attention (in addition to whatever -isms you like).



Trump at least makes people believe he has a point of view and a plan. That matters.

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2024, 12:19:55 PM »
Remember how Kamala was going to crack down on price gouging?
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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2024, 12:26:34 PM »

Offline Spracne

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Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2024, 01:01:28 PM »
Kamala is not good at campaigning and was accepted simply because the democrat leadership was afraid of the backlash if they chose someone else. Dems have a bad habit of painting themselves into corners with their fake outrage.

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2024, 01:08:43 PM »

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2024, 01:27:09 PM »
I fully believe the main difference in messaging involves the "We see you" republican approach compared to the "We see us" democratic approach.  I have no illusion that Trump or the republican party see anyone in any real way but they do a great job of communicating that they do.  Kamala Harris and the democrats made no discernable effort to connect with everyman.

Another issue, I believe, is that we are living in an era of story and "relationship."  Republicans seem to have better stories, true or not, than democrats.  They also have a single person, with whom people can allegedly relate, manifesting what they seem to value.  That's relationship.  Democrats present as unrelatable in many ways and there is no single person in whom people can invest.  I'm not saying this is healthy or right.  There is nothing genuine in the "relationship" the republican party offers and I think the faux connection will hurt the party in the long run.  But they sell this well, and I assume, very intentionally.  Democrats can learn something from this.  I would just hope that if they do, it's actually something real that they offer and not just a marketing strategy. 

In addition, the republican party wears being common and ordinary as a badge.  That resonates with ordinary people of all backgrounds and since nearly everyone is ordinary, it's a big deal.  The democrats seem to be in a detached circlejerk reveling in their superior intelligence and knowledge of all things.  It's even shown up in this thread.  I'm not unintelligent, having earned a terminal degree (which I think is really as much about opportunity and persistence as intelligence) but I'm not an expert in everything. I'm not a climate scientist.  I'm not an economist.  I'm not an expert in geopolitics.  I can research those topics and I do.  I believe I have informed opinions on them.  But, expecting everyone to study everything is unreasonable.  If I was doing any work with either party, I'd encourage them to provide some scaffolding for ordinary people, like me, to understand these concepts in such a way as they can make an informed decision.  Assuming people are not intelligent enough to understand these things is inaccurate, condescending, and an ineffective political posture to take.

Also, the appeal that both major parties make to outliers is frustrating and a terrible way to write policy.  "Border-crossers" killing suburban, white women is an outlier.  12 year-olds having abortions is an outlier.  That messaging seems to work with the already decided but it's abhorrent to me.  It's the opposite of addressing the "middle."  What is normative?  What can we do to make things better for everyone, as much as that's possible?  There is little appeal to that made by either side.

The fact that the people have ceded power to the two major candidates who ran for president is discouraging.  It's embarrassing to me that these were our options.

Finally, I have zero belief that anyone at the higher levels of politics has any interest at all in the well-being and opportunities of people in this country.  My bias is that they are all about themselves, power acquisition, and generating perpetually increasing financial resources.  Maybe I'm a cynic.  But I will own that.  I'm the voter many people hate.  I couldn't vote for either with any integrity.  That's just me though.  I don't question the integrity or rationale of anyone else's voting decisions.

Real change happens at the grassroots level.  I don't hope for and wait for policy changes made by unaffected politicians.  I just do my work and place my hope in having a positive impact on the people and communities with whom I engage.

TL;DR = the normals won

https://x.com/OldRowSwig/status/1854688446507295120

If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Spracne

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #94 on: November 09, 2024, 01:36:10 PM »
What did they win?
My winning smile and can-do attitude.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #95 on: November 09, 2024, 01:50:59 PM »


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #96 on: November 09, 2024, 05:54:58 PM »
What did they win?

A future away from mom and dad after graduation.

Offline Pete

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #97 on: November 09, 2024, 06:07:51 PM »
It’s the 80’s again

Offline schreds21

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #98 on: November 09, 2024, 08:08:11 PM »
Got damn the 80's rocked so hard.   eff it.  I'm growing my mullet back out.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Who should the dems blame?
« Reply #99 on: November 09, 2024, 08:15:21 PM »
It’s the 80’s again

If you look at covid as the 70's then it makes sense
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite