Chicago State game thread

[Sandstone Outcropping]

Is it time to meltdown? Scott Wildcat had a meltdown after Tuesday night. I don't think it is time to meltdown. I think this team could come together to be an 8 -9 seed based on what I saw in the LSU and Villanova games. Also think the floor could be like 5-6 wins in the conference season. How are other Cat hoops fans feeling after the 10 - 3 non-con season? What do you see as the floor/ceiling for this team? Will Tylor Perry's play be the key factor in determining this?

[pissclams]

these cats are going to play really well some nights and really poorly on others.  the only fix is time playing together.  we’re not going to the elite eight this year but I won’t be surprised when we make out of the round of 64.

[MakeItRain]

Is it time to meltdown? Scott Wildcat had a meltdown after Tuesday night. I don't think it is time to meltdown. I think this team could come together to be an 8 -9 seed based on what I saw in the LSU and Villanova games. Also think the floor could be like 5-6 wins in the conference season. How are other Cat hoops fans feeling after the 10 - 3 non-con season? What do you see as the floor/ceiling for this team? Will Tylor Perry's play be the key factor in determining this?

Scott's meltdown was absurd and he knows it. We lost two out of our top 6 players, for the season. I don't think many second year coaches would be able to manage that and still make the tournament. I think the hope, at this point, is for us to somehow get 7 more Q1 wins and sneak into the tournament. It's okay to adjust expectations based on new information.

[wetwillie]

We still have 3 really good players, it will just be a matter of getting the support players to work together.  Not sure what is with RJ but we need to free that man.

[nicname]

Not making the tournament, is not the end of the world either, as long as the trajectory is right.

2006-07 and 2008-09 both had a lot of good times.

[MakeItRain]

Not making the tournament, is not the end of the world either, as long as the trajectory is right.

2006-07 and 2008-09 both had a lot of good times.

Agree

[CNS]

We still have 3 really good players, it will just be a matter of getting the support players to work together.  Not sure what is with RJ but we need to free that man.

I don't think RJ will solve anything this year.  From what I have seen and what Tang has said, he is a shooter and not a PG.  What we need is Dai Dai to mature enough to be able to take over as point as soon as he is able so that TP can be shifted to shooting guard.  IMO, this is really the only thing that can make a substantial change this year in providing stability in offensive play. 

McNair isn't a starter.  He should be a 7 or 8 man.  TP isn't a PG.  Yet, we have to rely on these guys in these positions, or we need to change line up and strategy.  The problem is with Ques hurt and Tomlin gone, to change line up and strategy we would need guys we don't have right now that aren't 7 or 8 man type players due to skillset or maturity. 

I agree that we are going to be either really good or really bad most nights. 

Tang is on year 2 and we lost a lot of guys from last year.  I still like the trajectory.  I do hope that Castillo is a special enough kid to play quickly next year and that we hit a couple portal homeruns in the offseason. 

[wetwillie]

TP is the closest thing we have to a PG, it's going to have to be his role. He is still getting up 11 shots a game while leading the team in assists by a wide margin.

[pissclams]

We still have 3 really good players, it will just be a matter of getting the support players to work together.  Not sure what is with RJ but we need to free that man.

I don't think RJ will solve anything this year.  From what I have seen and what Tang has said, he is a shooter and not a PG.  What we need is Dai Dai to mature enough to be able to take over as point as soon as he is able so that TP can be shifted to shooting guard.  IMO, this is really the only thing that can make a substantial change this year in providing stability in offensive play. 

McNair isn't a starter.  He should be a 7 or 8 man.  TP isn't a PG.  Yet, we have to rely on these guys in these positions, or we need to change line up and strategy.  The problem is with Ques hurt and Tomlin gone, to change line up and strategy we would need guys we don't have right now that aren't 7 or 8 man type players due to skillset or maturity. 

I agree that we are going to be either really good or really bad most nights. 

Tang is on year 2 and we lost a lot of guys from last year.  I still like the trajectory.  I do hope that Castillo is a special enough kid to play quickly next year and that we hit a couple portal homeruns in the offseason.

this is all good
i’d like to see my guy BUD LEE getting some of Todd McNair’s minutes tho if we’re rebuilding or actually regardless

[Sandstone Outcropping]

We still have 3 really good players, it will just be a matter of getting the support players to work together.  Not sure what is with RJ but we need to free that man.

I don't think RJ will solve anything this year.  From what I have seen and what Tang has said, he is a shooter and not a PG.  What we need is Dai Dai to mature enough to be able to take over as point as soon as he is able so that TP can be shifted to shooting guard.  IMO, this is really the only thing that can make a substantial change this year in providing stability in offensive play. 

McNair isn't a starter.  He should be a 7 or 8 man.  TP isn't a PG.  Yet, we have to rely on these guys in these positions, or we need to change line up and strategy.  The problem is with Ques hurt and Tomlin gone, to change line up and strategy we would need guys we don't have right now that aren't 7 or 8 man type players due to skillset or maturity. 

I agree that we are going to be either really good or really bad most nights. 

Tang is on year 2 and we lost a lot of guys from last year.  I still like the trajectory.  I do hope that Castillo is a special enough kid to play quickly next year and that we hit a couple portal homeruns in the offseason.

this is all good
i’d like to see my guy BUD LEE getting some of Todd McNair’s minutes tho if we’re rebuilding or actually regardless

No sure what the outlook is for McNair or Colbert.  Don't PI me but they bear a scary similarity to a lot of the bigs oscar would bring in (Colbert more than McNair - Mcnair has shown some good flashes). Will Tang look to bring in back to the basket sort of bigs or will they be more N' Guessan, Tomlin types?

[CNS]

Tang keeps harping on buying in when talking with Wyatt in post game.  I assume that is what is keeping Rich, Dai Dai, etc out.

As far as Colbert, he still seems like he has to think too much during the game.  Like it hasn't slowed down for him yet.  Kinda like Taj looks when he plays(up until Chi State). 

Finister didn't look nearly as Bambi-esque as normal in the game.  He didn't do much, but didn't look completely out of the game either.  I would like to see more of that and see where it goes, a little bit at a time.

[nicname]

_Fan posted an interesting graphic on KSO showing our overall efficiency by lineup. Despite Ames’ deficiencies, we’re overall a much better team with him on the floor. Which is odd because his minutes have regressed over time.

The graphic also showed that we’re bad when McNair and N’Guessan are on the floor at the same time, especially when another “big” Kaluma, Rich, etc are on the floor.

[CNS]

_Fan posted an interesting graphic on KSO showing our overall efficiency by lineup. Despite Ames’ deficiencies, we’re overall a much better team with him on the floor. Which is odd because his minutes have regressed over time.

The graphic also showed that we’re bad when McNair and N’Guessan are on the floor at the same time, especially when another “big” Kaluma, Rich, etc are on the floor.

Dai Dai drives and I love it.  However, I wonder if Tang is wanting him to run whatever it is we are trying to run, rather than breaking it and driving, and that may be one of the issues that is causing him to constantly tell Wyatt everyone needs to buy in.   

The note on bigs seems like a no brainer.  I really appreciate N'Guessan but with him, McNair, Rich, and Kaluma on the floor at once, the only buckets are coming from Kaluma and the defenders of the other three can sag a bit since none of those others are driving by anyone anytime soon. 

[nicname]

One of the main emphasis of 5-out motion is that if you believe you can take your man to the rack you do hit without hesitation. So, that isn’t likely the problem. He’s supposedly a liability on defense, but I haven’t watched him closely enough to have an opinion on that, but that’s likely the culprit, that or practice/buy-in-or-quit stuff we don’t see.

[CNS]

One of the main emphasis of 5-out motion is that if you believe you can take your man to the rack you do hit without hesitation. So, that isn’t likely the problem. He’s supposedly a liability on defense, but I haven’t watched him closely enough to have an opinion on that, but that’s likely the culprit, that or practice/buy-in-or-quit stuff we don’t see.

I get the 5-out and driving, but I know Tang was upset with Kaluma early on this season when he kept driving and shooting.  I would assume he is asking the guys to do a few things before driving. 

He doesn't look measurably worse than anyone else on D right now(eye test).  RJ, I would understand, but Dai Dai doesn't look bad.  I would assume it's practice.  But, if practice is keeping Rich, Dai Dai, Colbert, etc all out of minutes 13 games into the season, due to lack of intensity, buy in, etc then we have other issues. 

[nicname]

Right. Buyin willl prob always threaten problems with significant roster turnover in this modern era. Good reason to want to build continuity, which I believe Tang and Co are emphasizing, despite early roster turnover in their tenure.

Obv def want to get a ball reversal or two to free things up in a motion.

[wetwillie]

What's the minute breakdown out of 200 if you want Dai Dai to be the primary ball handler? Kaluma is getting 35 so I guess it's 165 to divvy up.

[nicname]

Starting:
Ames 30
Perry 35
Cam 35
Kaluma 35
N’Guessan 30

Obv rough estimates. Only 35 min left to go around.

[wetwillie]

I don't love it but if you give the other 35 to Buddy Rich and RJ I can learn to like it.

[nicname]

I think McNair is fine in short spurts. He can be productive, but gasses quickly.

[MakeItRain]

TP is the closest thing we have to a PG, it's going to have to be his role. He is still getting up 11 shots a game while leading the team in assists by a wide margin.

TPs problem isn't that he's a bad point guard, the issue is that he can't get himself a shot and if he's playing the point, that's less shots for him and more energy devoted to getting shots for others.

[wetwillie]

TP is the closest thing we have to a PG, it's going to have to be his role. He is still getting up 11 shots a game while leading the team in assists by a wide margin.

TPs problem isn't that he's a bad point guard, the issue is that he can't get himself a shot and if he's playing the point, that's less shots for him and more energy devoted to getting shots for others.

He's already getting off 11 FGA per game, how many more do you think he should be taking? Looks like The Flush, Quis, and Hot Rod were in the 12 range.  I see Dai Dai getting more minutes equaling more quality shots around the rim for our bigs with his ability to penetrate.

[cfbandyman]

The schedule makers did us a solid with how we start conference play. Playing UCF and then @WV is about as easy a start to this madness as you can get. Hopefully it'll get them adjusted even more for rest of the schedule. I think they can win 7 conference games, but they will have to dig and scratch and claw to get wins 8 and 9.

[CNS]

The schedule makers did us a solid with how we start conference play. Playing UCF and then @WV is about as easy a start to this madness as you can get. Hopefully it'll get them adjusted even more for rest of the schedule. I think they can win 7 conference games, but they will have to dig and scratch and claw to get wins 8 and 9.

I think it was Wyatt that said Tuesday that 10 of the 14 in our conf are top 50 teams.  This is going to be a rough ride.

[cfbandyman]

The schedule makers did us a solid with how we start conference play. Playing UCF and then @WV is about as easy a start to this madness as you can get. Hopefully it'll get them adjusted even more for rest of the schedule. I think they can win 7 conference games, but they will have to dig and scratch and claw to get wins 8 and 9.

I think it was Wyatt that said Tuesday that 10 of the 14 in our conf are top 50 teams.  This is going to be a rough ride.

Oh no doubt, but playing OSU twice, WVU twice, and UCF I think is enough to count for 5 wins. I think home vs ISU and TCU are wins, which is how I got to 7. But for us to steal a win vs OU/KU/Baylor at home will be tough, as is any wins on the road outside what I think we can do that, maybe.