Possible WW3 thread

[sys]

It is important to me personally that the USA spend materially more on military than the next few countries combined. IRL.


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it makes a lot of sense to have a powerful military.

[steve dave]

we can have both. just gotta tax rich people a lot more and start taxing religious institutions. tithe to your community healthcare not your church, it's what jesus would irl do.

if by rich people you mean the upper middle class, then yeah.

like, i obviously don't know what everyone on this board makes, but my general impression is that everyone, or almost everyone, who posts here would pay more in taxes than they would receive in benefits with a euro style social welfare and taxation system.

if that doesn't accord with your understanding of what it takes to fund a generous welfare system, then i don't think you have a realistic funding model in mind.

Yeah, I know I’d pay a lot more taxes for everyone to have healthcare. Seems ok to me.


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[steve dave]

It is important to me personally that the USA spend materially more on military than the next few countries combined. IRL.


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it makes a lot of sense to have a powerful military.

Yeah, that’s why it’s important to me


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[sys]

Yeah, I know I’d pay a lot more taxes for everyone to have healthcare. Seems ok to me.

i kinda figured you were aware of that w regard to yourself.

[wetwillie]

How much funding would need to happen to feasibly run a Medicare for all situation in these here United States.

[sys]

How much funding would need to happen to feasibly run a Medicare for all situation in these here United States.

estimates vary a lot based on assumptions are what you're counting.  ballpark would be 3-4 trillion/year.

we currently spend 4.3t/year on healthcare.  personally i don't believe in most of the cost savings that proponents say would be achieved.  but anyways, starting with 4.3t minus whatever proportion of the total spend a particular plan would leave as private (or via other public means), minus or plus whatever savings or increases you think are realistic.

[wetwillie]

How much funding would need to happen to feasibly run a Medicare for all situation in these here United States.

estimates vary a lot based on assumptions are what you're counting.  ballpark would be 3-4 trillion/year.

we currently spend 4.3t/year on healthcare.  personally i don't believe in most of the cost savings that proponents say would be achieved.  but anyways, starting with 4.3t minus whatever proportion of the total spend a particular plan would leave as private (or via other public means), minus or plus whatever savings or increases you think are realistic.

How can Great Britain have costs around 4,200 per person for their NHS and we would be at at close to 3X that?

[sys]

i'm seeing the figures as ca. $5500/person in the uk and ca. $13000 in the us.  part of of that is just that we're a (much) richer country.  if you go by % of gdp it's 11.3% for the uk and 18.3% for the us (2022 for the uk, 2021 for the us, but i don't think it changes the story).

i don't know a ton about why we spend so 1/3 more than the uk on healthcare.  i'd guess it's mostly higher salaries for health care workers and greater consumption of higher cost hc services, but i don't know the specifics.  possibly might include that some stuff we classify as heathcare they classify as something else (like care for elderly).

it's definitely the case that we're the outlier.  the uk's costs are pretty normal.

[Spracne]

i'm seeing the figures as ca. $5500/person in the uk and ca. $13000 in the us.  part of of that is just that we're a (much) richer country.  if you go by % of gdp it's 11.3% for the uk and 18.3% for the us (2022 for the uk, 2021 for the us, but i don't think it changes the story).

i don't know a ton about why we spend so 1/3 more than the uk on healthcare.  i'd guess it's mostly higher salaries for health care workers and greater consumption of higher cost hc services, but i don't know the specifics.  possibly might include that some stuff we classify as heathcare they classify as something else (like care for elderly).

it's definitely the case that we're the outlier.  the uk's costs are pretty normal.

I put on my Sherlock Holmes hat, and now I suspect it might have something to do with all the middlemen taking their pounds of flesh, coupled with a regulatory environment that encourages greed in this space.

[sys]

first hit on google.

https://medvocation.com/en/blog/do-doctors-get-paid-more-in-the-us-or-uk/215

How much are UK doctors paid?
UK Doctor Working Hours

At the NHS, medical practitioners are expected to work at least 8 hours daily, with an average hourly rate of £30.09 per hour, says Talent.com.


UK Doctor Salaries

    Consultants: £88,000.
    GPs: £65,000.
    Specialists: £80,700.
    Specialty doctor: £50,300.

US Doctor Salaries.

As per Glassdoor, in 2022, US physicians' average annual salary was USD 183,429.


    Advanced Practice Provider: $128,000.
    Infectious Diseases: $243,000.
    Family medicine:$231,000.
    Internal Medicine: $267,000

[wetwillie]

If we need an extra 4 trillion and have to rely on the 160M filers to fund it, well we are mumped.

[sys]

it's definitely the case that we're the outlier.  the uk's costs are pretty normal.

I put on my Sherlock Holmes hat, and now I suspect it might have something to do with all the middlemen taking their pounds of flesh, coupled with a regulatory environment that encourages greed in this space.

well, as noted above, the us is the outlier.  the uk is pretty normal and several countries that have costs in line with the uk have systems where private health insurance processes the bulk of healthcare spending.

[sys]

If we need an extra 4 trillion and have to rely on the 160M filers to fund it, well we are mumped.

you're right that it's not politically possible anytime soon.  but oth, we're paying that 4 t now.  if we really had a political consensus that we wanted to process that spending through the govt, it shouldn't be impossible.


the thing is, most people are pretty content with the current system.

[Kat Kid]

Most people I know with benefits hate the current system but are terrified it somehow gets worse if it changes. People without benefits are in an absolutely horrific system even after Obamacare but it is just consistent with our lack of a welfare state generally for how we treat the poor as opposed to anything unique. The whole problem is of course we have a very powerful professional organization that prevents new doctors from being trained and so we have highly paid specialists and places like Mississippi where they have fewer doctors per capita, lots of sick people and almost 1/5 don’t have insurance and so people just die. Mississippi should ask Cuba to open a medical school there and figure out how it is done.

[steve dave]

Most people I know with benefits hate the current system but are terrified it somehow gets worse if it changes. People without benefits are in an absolutely horrific system even after Obamacare but it is just consistent with our lack of a welfare state generally for how we treat the poor as opposed to anything unique. The whole problem is of course we have a very powerful professional organization that prevents new doctors from being trained and so we have highly paid specialists and places like Mississippi where they have fewer doctors per capita, lots of sick people and almost 1/5 don’t have insurance and so people just die. Mississippi should ask Cuba to open a medical school there and figure out how it is done.

OK Bernie, didn’t read most of that but did you see before you posted that I was willing to pay more taxes? Didn’t think so bitch.


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[MadCat]

How did we get here in the WW3 thread?

[sonofdaxjones]

Earlier in this FFY the DOD failed its fifth consecutive audit and was unable to account for 61% of its approximately $3.5 trillion dollars in assets. In addition, the GAO noted that the DOD continued to be unable to account for hundreds of billions of dollars in assets that was in the hands of private contractors. 

Yet there's still SFB's on this blog and in this world who think the U.S. doesn't spend enough on its military and that holding the military financially accountable somehow weakens them.

I mean, it truly takes a special kind of derp to have that kind of thinking.

[steve dave]

Earlier in this FFY the DOD failed its fifth consecutive audit and was unable to account for 61% of its approximately $3.5 trillion dollars in assets. In addition, the GAO noted that the DOD continued to be unable to account for hundreds of billions of dollars in assets that was in the hands of private contractors. 

Yet there's still SFB's on this blog and in this world who think the U.S. doesn't spend enough on its military and that holding the military financially accountable somehow weakens them.

I mean, it truly takes a special kind of derp to have that kind of thinking.

Makes sense


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[Pete]

Sweden gets approved for NATO membership in a huge and hilarious eff you to Russia.  Apart from the many murdered, raped, and abducted innocent Ukrainians, this has been a hilarious escapade.

At this point it is indisputable that Russia is a hapless shell of what they wanted the World to believe about their capabilities and status.  It’s a truly remarkable series of fuckups and unintended consequences:

- Thought they could take Ukraine in 3 days, and instead ran out of gas in wheat fields while stealing appliances…pushed back by a rag tag civilian defense with zero air support.

-  Believed their natural gas would hold Europe hostage, and instead Europe pivoted overnight to alternate suppliers and power sources.

- Currency collapsed

- a very significant amount of bright young people fled country

- Sweden and Finland, historically and legendarily neutral neighbors of Russia immediately RAN into NATO’s arms…locking down a massive border with Russia and the entire Baltic (rough ridin' Russia’s navy directly up the ass).

- created the conditions for an armed revolt against Putin’s leadership group, in a humiliating rebuke of Putin’s power

- positioned the Ukraine for membership in NATO and EU, and quite possibly for yet another large permanent NATO military base on Russia’s doorstep

I’m sure I am leaving out many other hilarious fuckups.

Truly remarkable.

[steve dave]

are we thinking biden schemed all this? like he brain mumped putin into doing this to himself and russia? he seems like a hapless senile old moron. but on the other hand MAGAs are always claiming he's behind all of their self owns. maybe he is a scheme master?

[Pete]

are we thinking biden schemed all this? like he brain mumped putin into doing this to himself and russia? he seems like a hapless senile old moron. but on the other hand MAGAs are always claiming he's behind all of their self owns. maybe he is a scheme master?

It’s a reasonable conclusion to draw.  To assert otherwise is to admit that Russia is even more hapless and backward than the facts plainly reveal on their own….that Russia’s “miscalculation” is really just the expected result of a culture of mouth breathing orcs with very little capacity for civilized thought/behavior (e.g. group of feces flinging angry monkeys)

[sonofdaxjones]

It's quite fascinating to read people on here talk about "civilized behavior" as they live in a country that at one time was bombing 7 or 8 different countries a day. 

[Dugout DickStone]

are we thinking biden schemed all this? like he brain mumped putin into doing this to himself and russia? he seems like a hapless senile old moron. but on the other hand MAGAs are always claiming he's behind all of their self owns. maybe he is a scheme master?

usually you can't mentally dominate a supposed super power while at the same time enriching yourself with a decades long global powerplay but apparently it is possible

[sonofdaxjones]

The Grifters Paradise shall not be disturbed

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2023/07/10/white-house-wants-ukraine-inspector-general-out-of-defense-bill/

Imagine supporting an administration that does not want additional oversight of a department that has failed 5 (soon 6) straight audits, cannot account for over half of it's $3.5 trillion dollars worith of assets and cannot account for hundreds of billions of dollars of additional assets in the hands of private contractors (doing Flying Spaghetti Monster only knows).

Ladies and Gentleman - The Grifters Biden!!

[Dugout DickStone]

The Grifters Paradise shall not be disturbed

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2023/07/10/white-house-wants-ukraine-inspector-general-out-of-defense-bill/

Imagine supporting an administration that does not want additional oversight of a department that has failed 5 (soon 6) straight audits, cannot account for over half of it's $3.5 trillion dollars worith of assets and cannot account for hundreds of billions of dollars of additional assets in the hands of private contractors (doing Flying Spaghetti Monster only knows).

Ladies and Gentleman - The Grifters Biden!!

he's absolutely in his tiny d(ax) feelings today fellas.