Possible WW3 thread

[Dugout DickStone]

how many dead ukrainians is ukrainian land worth seems like a question for ukraine to decide, imo.

Nic/dax, I'm interested in what your rebuttal to this is?

My rebuttal would be that it's obviously the Ukrainian leadership's decision. I believe Ukraine and Russia would have already reached peace, but for us and our NATO bros (mainly just us) propping up the Ukrainian forces and in my understanding squelching peace talks. It would have been less than are already dead, a more stable region, and lessened nuclear threat.

I don't think a weakened Russia is all that important as some have stated as a side-goal. Russia has been and would have continued to be weak in most all areas outside of nuclear armament and military size and scope.

Make no mistake. Should this conflict be prolonged indefinitely, wave after Russian military wave will come, and many many more Ukrainians and Russians will die and have their lives ruined. This includes regular military, civilians and conscripted fighters non of whom will have "decided" how many is too many.

Poor men, women and children die and have their lives ruined for the ends of the rich and powerful.

On what terms would Ukraine and Russia have reached peace with fewer dead in this fantasy of yours where Ukraine gets no aid?

It would undoubtedly have to give up some border territory populated by folks who may be culturally and ethnically Ukrainian or Russian, but likely just want to live their lives in peace. If I were living their, I'd prefer that peace to war. And hopefully, I'd be able to tolerate -- without too much difficulty -- whatever government I was ruled by.

yeah, the Ukranians in the territory that the orcs did take had it super easy. 

[LickNeckey]

well one thing that we know for sure is that Vlad has definitely never feigned an attack against the homeland to secure his position politically

[Dugout DickStone]

can you imagine being a Ukrainian citizen in the area some foreign country sells to the orcs for cheap fuel?

[Cire]

NATO says that Russia Dropped charges weeks ago

[Pete]

NATO says that Russia Dropped charges weeks ago

I saw early speculation that dropping timed or remote detonated charges is about the only way to do it.  Drop them, run off, wait however long, and boom.

Apparently it’s one of the most shallow ocean regions around. Like 100 meters, versus 3500 meters in the Atlantic region where the fiber communications cables lay. Tough for subs to operate there, and definitely not able to do so without being seen.

[Sandstone Outcropping]

This is awful but it needs to be watched:

[sonofdaxjones]

We conducted under water tests right over the pipelines in June.

https://seapowermagazine.org/baltops-22-a-perfect-opportunity-for-research-and-resting-new-technology/

[wetwillie]

NATO says that Russia Dropped charges weeks ago

Most surveilled part of the ocean

[Dugout DickStone]

NATO says that Russia Dropped charges weeks ago

I saw early speculation that dropping timed or remote detonated charges is about the only way to do it.  Drop them, run off, wait however long, and boom.

Apparently it’s one of the most shallow ocean regions around. Like 100 meters, versus 3500 meters in the Atlantic region where the fiber communications cables lay. Tough for subs to operate there, and definitely not able to do so without being seen.

Of course they did.  They need to vent that off and now little putin can play victim

[sys]

The last War on the Rocks pod highlighted this point. The conscripts wouldn't be able to operate tanks in a armored attack or adjusting artillery fire but they would have some use manning a defensive position until more can be trained, etc.

the terminology that kofman use for the different classes of russian soldiers (conscript = someone called up for mandatory military service as they've done forever, not part of the new wave of people being conscripted to fight in ukraine.  "mobilized personnel" = someone who has completed their mandatory military service, was technically considered to be a reserve and has now been conscripted to fight in the special military operation in ukraine) doesn't make much sense to me, but i suppose it's the right terminology and i should conform to that usage.

[Sandstone Outcropping]

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1575065334201012226?s=46&t=56LvPf2DoP-fqU2K7WxqNw

Wave after wave


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In case anyone has forgotten, it is a also war crime to conscript citizens of an occupied territory to fight against their country.

[Sandstone Outcropping]

The last War on the Rocks pod highlighted this point. The conscripts wouldn't be able to operate tanks in a armored attack or adjusting artillery fire but they would have some use manning a defensive position until more can be trained, etc.

the terminology that kofman use for the different classes of russian soldiers (conscript = someone called up for mandatory military service as they've done forever, not part of the new wave of people being conscripted to fight in ukraine.  "mobilized personnel" = someone who has completed their mandatory military service, was technically considered to be a reserve and has now been conscripted to fight in the special military operation in ukraine) doesn't make much sense to me, but i suppose it's the right terminology and i should conform to that usage.

Yeah. When I used "conscript" above, I meant "person who was forced to go into the Russian army against his will" and not the way it is actually used in the Russian military.

[sonofdaxjones]

Thanks to @Pete for nailing the obvious on the shallow Baltic (already mentioned by me)

In other news . . . pray to the FSM for more global warming

"If we get a very cold winter, we have a problem."  . . . German something something minister of climate resilience or something like that.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Germany-Must-Cut-Natural-Gas-Consumption-To-Avoid-Winter-Shortages.html

Joe Biden:  Wrecking more havoc on modern Europe than in other post WWII U.S. President (and it's not even close)

[sonofdaxjones]

#neocongE never asks how the Ukrainians burn through weapons at rate the United States predicated would only be needed to stop a full blown Soviet move on NATO.

    "I’m greatly concerned. Unless we have new production, which takes months to ramp up, we’re not going to have the ability to supply the Ukrainians," Des Roches told CNBC.

    Europe is running low, too. "The military stocks of most [European NATO] member states have been, I wouldn’t say exhausted, but depleted in a high proportion, because we have been providing a lot of capacity to the Ukrainians," Josep Borrell, the EU’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, said earlier this month.

[sonofdaxjones]

A certain Putin puppet US President warned the Germans as he was working to disrupt Putin’s primary source of income . . . but still a Putin Puppet, tho




Trump the prophet

[nicname]

Also, I think it's fair to point out that while dax is a full blown Russian propagandist, Nic has always been a fairly steady isolationist libertarian.

Dude, isolationist is not the preferred nomenclature. Non-interventionalist, please. 

[Dugout DickStone]

Historically the Germans love the Russians and wouldn’t be willing to have cold little tootsies to watch the orca bleed.

[star seed 7]

Also, I think it's fair to point out that while dax is a full blown Russian propagandist, Nic has always been a fairly steady isolationist libertarian.

Dude, isolationist is not the preferred nomenclature. Non-interventionalist, please. 

My apologies

[dal9]

this could go in like 6 different threads but wtf
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11263375/Armys-trans-officer-wife-INDICTED-trying-pass-medical-records-Russians.html

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/chrisgeidner/the-first-out-transgender-active-duty-us-army-officer-my-sto

[sys]

fair bit of chatter today that ukraine was finally able to cut off the road east from lyman.  hard to believe russia still has many people there, because it's been pretty obvious what was going to happen, but i guess we'll find out.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1575714491652009984

[chum1]

I believe there were some on this board saying that this stuff is bigger than Ukraine. And others who said the opposite.

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1575828282494230528

[steve dave]

I believe there were some on this board saying that this stuff is bigger than Ukraine. And others who said the opposite.

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1575828282494230528

https://twitter.com/maiyajambalaya/status/1575208253071720450


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[mocat]

that great big hall (?) is pretty badass. russia used to not be brokeass

[Pete]

How the eff does a person of sound mind include comments about sex change operations in a speech like this and be expected to be taken for anything other than a fascist bigot?

[Dugout DickStone]

we didn't have to fire a shot