General Discussion > The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit
Possible WW3 thread
catastrophe:
Seems like it shouldn’t be hard to build a coalition to sanction Russia to the max. I wouldn’t necessarily even be that big on arming Ukraine since I feel like arms proliferation can cause major long term issues.
Is there any possible way to threaten kicking Russia off the UN security counsel? That would be kinda neat.
MakeItRain:
This isn't 1563, there should be resistance and consequence from one nation invading another sovereign nation. No, I do not think we should just sit back and just sanction Russia. There are several reasons why sanctions mean absolutely nothing. First, the sanctions only hurt the citizens of Russia, and the western businesses that rely on the Russian people. The sanctions do absolutely nothing to harm or deter the Russian government or military. Russia isn't a democracy, what does Putin give a crap if the children of Novograd are starving and cold because we aren't providing them corn and coats? Secondly, China won't sanction them. Russia with continued support from China will be economically just fine.
If you support sanctions only you're better off just letting them invade without giving a crap.
We need to, with a coalition of forces across, Europe, provide armed resistance. If we can't build a coalition, and by that I don't mean 90% American troops with England, France, and particularly Germany, Czechia, and Poland throwing a couple of soldiers in. We would need to provide SUPPORT. If the countries that border Ukraine can't be bothered, then why should we. Whatever we do I am very much anti-sanctions.
I also firmly believe that if there was a war over Ukrainian sovereignty, that this absolutely would not be WW3. Who is fighting with Russia in this scenario? I certainly don't think China will fight a war with Russia on a different continent. What do they have to gain by that?
On a personal note, I have a couple of people close to me who are Ukrainian, currently living in the Ukraine or Poland and because of this I certainly care more than I would if this was Tajikistan. My view that no country should take another sovereign nation by force still applies, but I would care a lot less.
Cire:
eff Russia
Do everything in our power to cost Putin and cronies money and resources. Whether that is through sanctions weapons cyber attacks etc.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ben ji:
Surlyhorns has a pretty good thread on this with some posters who are in europe(germany). The general consensus from them was that no one cares as long as the gas keeps flowing.
As for why Russia is rough ridin' with Ukraine in the first place I saw it summed up as this
--- Quote ---I do need to say— in a way, Ukraine can emerge as strategic threat to the Russian regime and any regime likely to replace it. I can’t stress enough how much Russian authorities rely on framing the “West” and its ways as foreign, hostile and entirely unsuited to the Russian people as a source of internal legitimacy. Poland, the Baltics, and all of Central Europe can be absorbed by the West, but they have always been “other”— Catholic, or Germanic, or non-Slavic. They belonged TO Russia but were not OF Russia.
The absorption and integration of Ukraine into the West cannot be explained away in similar terms. Although much of the official Kyivan Rus to Moscow Princes timeline is bunk, it is firmly ingrained. Ukraine is not the other. Ukrainians are brothers.
And so a successful, prosperous, peaceful Ukraine integrated into Europe would be irrefutable proof that Russia is not mystically destined to be forever ruled by despots and would destroy the idea that what is good for the Westerner will not work for the Russian. And the Russian people would begin to really ask— like they did in the 1980s— why them and not us? The Kremlin knows the logical end to those questions. /quote]
--- End quote ---
Kat Kid:
Ukraine has $3700 GDP per capita
Russia has $10,000 GDP per capita
I’m not saying Ukraine couldn’t surpass Russia at some point, but they are not close to that at all.
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