Author Topic: Unions  (Read 17079 times)

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Offline Spracne

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Re: Unions
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2022, 05:34:39 PM »
Yes, Steve Dave is an establishment Democrat and he hates it

He doesn't realize that while he was sitting still, the line of demarcation passed him by unawares.
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Unions
« Reply #76 on: August 19, 2022, 06:01:18 PM »
Closing stores because people want a union is a bitch move  :th_twocents:

Not near as big of a bitch move as accepting a job that’s non-union and then trying to unionize it
That is the opposite of a bitch move.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Unions
« Reply #77 on: August 19, 2022, 07:19:52 PM »
Yes successfully unionizing a non union job is about as boss as it gets. That crap is hard.
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Offline kim carnes

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Re: Unions
« Reply #78 on: August 19, 2022, 08:31:26 PM »
Closing stores because people want a union is a bitch move  :th_twocents:

Not near as big of a bitch move as accepting a job that’s non-union and then trying to unionize it
That is the opposite of a bitch move.

Then closing stores is also the opposite of a bitch move kk

Offline steve dave

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Re: Unions
« Reply #79 on: August 19, 2022, 09:20:25 PM »
Rusty, add this to my republican list if you are keeping a tally.


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Serious question, why do you care if baristas unionize? (I have given it no thought)
They can unionize at will. I support their efforts. I also support their employer closing up shop if they think it%u2019s no longer in their best interest. Capitalism rules.


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I'm pretty sure that's a mainline Dem position!
I%u2019ve got some shocking news for you about who it is irl a mainline position for%u2026..


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I mean is Joe Biden or Chuck Schumer gonna come out in support of the workers here or comment in any way? no. Neither party is going to do anything, you are a IRL dem
What? Biden constantly honks off to unions. It’s one of his favorite things to honk off to!


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Offline steve dave

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Re: Unions
« Reply #80 on: August 19, 2022, 09:21:46 PM »
Yes, Steve Dave is an establishment Democrat and he hates it

He doesn't realize that while he was sitting still, the line of demarcation passed him by unawares.
Oh I realize it, but I’ve got some things still on the other side. It’s probably a matter of time if stuff doesn’t stop being stupid.


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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Unions
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2022, 05:38:39 AM »
Closing stores because people want a union is a bitch move  :th_twocents:

Not near as big of a bitch move as accepting a job that’s non-union and then trying to unionize it

Uh buddy, all jobs are non unionized until someone makes a decision to unionize them.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Unions
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2022, 07:03:23 AM »


Rusty, add this to my republican list if you are keeping a tally.


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Serious question, why do you care if baristas unionize? (I have given it no thought)
They can unionize at will. I support their efforts. I also support their employer closing up shop if they think it%u2019s no longer in their best interest. Capitalism rules.


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I'm pretty sure that's a mainline Dem position!
I%u2019ve got some shocking news for you about who it is irl a mainline position for%u2026..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I mean is Joe Biden or Chuck Schumer gonna come out in support of the workers here or comment in any way? no. Neither party is going to do anything, you are a IRL dem
What? Biden constantly honks off to unions. It’s one of his favorite things to honk off to!


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Oh come on he likes unions that get their white Midwestern hands dirty in factories not fancy pants baristas. And he's not gonna do anything for either given how fast he caved on the electric vehicle thing

Offline sys

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Re: Unions
« Reply #83 on: August 21, 2022, 02:20:00 AM »
i saw a genuine blue collar union social event today (international brotherhood of electrical workers annual picnic in a park) and i thought about how much kat kid would have liked it.
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Unions
« Reply #84 on: August 21, 2022, 07:21:08 AM »
i saw a genuine blue collar union social event today (international brotherhood of electrical workers annual picnic in a park) and i thought about how much kat kid would have liked it.
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Offline Pete

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Re: Unions
« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2022, 10:22:13 AM »
Closing stores because people want a union is a bitch move  :th_twocents:

Not near as big of a bitch move as accepting a job that’s non-union and then trying to unionize it

Uh buddy, all jobs are non unionized until someone makes a decision to unionize them.
Was thinking this too. We know whether it’s the chicken or the egg in this case.

I “get” both sides tho. Starbucks and Trader Joe’s seem to be overall a much more fair employer over the years than their competitors…doesn’t seem like they “deserve” this compared with others. Tho I completely agree that one of the reasons this country has a middle class is because of unions, and they deserve my support.   IDK, maybe it’s just my defect of character of “going against authority” itching.

In my job I watch management eff labor all the time.  Kinda wears on me.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Unions
« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2022, 11:09:27 AM »
Closing stores because people want a union is a bitch move  :th_twocents:

Not near as big of a bitch move as accepting a job that’s non-union and then trying to unionize it

Uh buddy, all jobs are non unionized until someone makes a decision to unionize them.
Was thinking this too. We know whether it’s the chicken or the egg in this case.

I “get” both sides tho. Starbucks and Trader Joe’s seem to be overall a much more fair employer over the years than their competitors…doesn’t seem like they “deserve” this compared with others. Tho I completely agree that one of the reasons this country has a middle class is because of unions, and they deserve my support.   IDK, maybe it’s just my defect of character of “going against authority” itching.

In my job I watch management eff labor all the time.  Kinda wears on me.

I think people lash out against union workers who aren't tradesmen because we were all taught that unions were created to protect the safety of workers and the safety of someone working at Trader Joe's seems laughable to nearly everyone.

As far as these two cases go. Starbucks is definitely notorious for overworking employees. I think any business with franchisees run the risk of the franchisee not adhering to company standards and ideals. Specific to Starbucks, and frankly most franchises, the corporate structure is too far removed from the rank and file, and are either slow to respond or simply ignore issues in their stores.

I don't know what the issue, if there is one, with Trader Joe's. There have been unions for grocery workers for generations. TJs has a lot more to lose with trying to bust unions than they stand to gain. I can't imagine, outside of their main rival, Whole Foods, a business with a more liberal customer base. And like I said every other major grocery chain in the country employ union workers.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Unions
« Reply #87 on: August 21, 2022, 11:13:46 AM »
This proliferation of union workers in places we haven't seen before is like everything else. The workers are more aware of the profits of their employers, because they want to make more money by becoming publicly traded. With each passing generation there's less of an appetite for just accepting authority, and that's a good thing. Join these things with the fact that the internet and social media has really shrunk the world and gives everyone access to an audience. It's easy to tell your story to the masses and find people to rally to your cause.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Unions
« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2022, 11:38:06 AM »
I wish I could find a graph of food service industry jobs over time. I don’t know what the Department of Labor’s definition of food service is, but I’d include grocery stores in that. It just seems like there’s so many more of these jobs than there were 30 years ago when they were considered “McJobs”. That would lead me to believe there’s more people relying on them for primary income. I get the sentiment from their employees that if companies like Starbucks/Trader Joes are going to make money & operate like more “traditional” businesses did 30 years ago where they wanted their employees to think of their jobs in terms of a career, then employees now should demand their employers treat them as long-term employees & not just people working McJobs.
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Offline steve dave

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Re: Unions
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2022, 12:24:10 PM »
The employee has never had more power than they do right now. And that’s a great thing imo. It’s already fading though. Supply and demand is undefeated.


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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Unions
« Reply #90 on: August 21, 2022, 12:33:29 PM »
I think you are seeing a tug of war between labor and capital and for the first time in my life labor has been winning some real victories (albeit small and hard fought).

Some of this is down to some really unique circumstances of the labor market giving workers more leverage but other labor victories have been in areas that don’t have much history of labor militancy like the various labor actions by teachers across several states in 2018-19.

The Amazon organizers in jersey city Chris Smalls and Derrick Palmer are great examples of organizers combining old school and new school tactics and they successfully organized a warehouse basically without any traditional union support, an incredible achievement.

The big challenge is that classic American  combination no solidarity of any kind, class or otherwise, with the belief that being self-employed as an independent contractor by a major corporation sets you apart and is an opportunity to grow your business instead of an excuse for capital to vacuum up profits and not even invest in the tools of the trade but rather making their workforce do it themselves.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Unions
« Reply #91 on: August 21, 2022, 05:40:40 PM »
You will just see the speed of automation increase as labor becomes more expensive. I don’t blame people for attempting to unionize but in these industries especially it will be a fleeting victory.
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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Unions
« Reply #92 on: August 21, 2022, 06:41:23 PM »
You will just see the speed of automation increase as labor becomes more expensive. I don’t blame people for attempting to unionize but in these industries especially it will be a fleeting victory.

Of course, but this is a constant.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Unions
« Reply #93 on: August 22, 2022, 01:21:01 AM »
You will just see the speed of automation increase as labor becomes more expensive. I don’t blame people for attempting to unionize but in these industries especially it will be a fleeting victory.

Of course, but this is a constant.

And it's been happening long enough where we've seen the shift to the labor not disappearing but being used to manage the automation. There are studies that have shown that automation has led to fewer jobs lost than what was though the case would be when we started in this trend 30 years ago. Manufacturing has incorporated automation long before that. Until machines have the capability to think, program, and fix themselves, you still need people to do those things.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Unions
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2022, 07:03:16 AM »
CATHIE WOOD HAS ENTERED THE CHAT


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Offline nicname

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Re: Unions
« Reply #95 on: August 22, 2022, 01:03:08 PM »
Good thread guys.
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Offline wetwillie

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Re: Unions
« Reply #96 on: August 22, 2022, 02:15:42 PM »
You will just see the speed of automation increase as labor becomes more expensive. I don’t blame people for attempting to unionize but in these industries especially it will be a fleeting victory.

Of course, but this is a constant.

And it's been happening long enough where we've seen the shift to the labor not disappearing but being used to manage the automation. There are studies that have shown that automation has led to fewer jobs lost than what was though the case would be when we started in this trend 30 years ago. Manufacturing has incorporated automation long before that. Until machines have the capability to think, program, and fix themselves, you still need people to do those things.

I would be interested in seeing these studies because that doesn’t really make sense to me.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Unions
« Reply #97 on: August 22, 2022, 06:22:43 PM »
You will just see the speed of automation increase as labor becomes more expensive. I don’t blame people for attempting to unionize but in these industries especially it will be a fleeting victory.

Of course, but this is a constant.

And it's been happening long enough where we've seen the shift to the labor not disappearing but being used to manage the automation. There are studies that have shown that automation has led to fewer jobs lost than what was though the case would be when we started in this trend 30 years ago. Manufacturing has incorporated automation long before that. Until machines have the capability to think, program, and fix themselves, you still need people to do those things.

I would be interested in seeing these studies because that doesn’t really make sense to me.

https://hbr.org/2021/11/automation-doesnt-just-create-or-destroy-jobs-it-transforms-them
Quote
The World Economic Forum estimates that by 2025, technology will create at least 12 million more jobs than it destroys, a sign that in the long run, automation will be a net positive for society.

Offline sys

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Re: Unions
« Reply #98 on: August 23, 2022, 02:25:51 AM »
I would be interested in seeing these studies because that doesn’t really make sense to me.

pretty much the entire history of mankind demonstrates that humans prefer to use productivity gains to consume more rather than to work less.
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Offline wetwillie

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Re: Unions
« Reply #99 on: August 23, 2022, 06:47:15 AM »
I would be interested in seeing these studies because that doesn’t really make sense to me.

pretty much the entire history of mankind demonstrates that humans prefer to use productivity gains to consume more rather than to work less.

It’s really more the shifting of labor mentioned I was interested in.  I went down the trail of the article and the study it referenced and it was pretty much as I expected. The type of jobs automation creates won’t be filled by the people it displaces.
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