Author Topic: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread  (Read 430887 times)

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Offline Spracne

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12500 on: December 01, 2020, 07:29:42 PM »


Nate Silver with some interesting data about Thanksgiving travel/gatherings. I kind of struggled to read the graphs with a quick glance, but I think it's saying that there weren't that many people who saw people outside of their tight circle that normally wouldn't.

journalists/elites!

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12501 on: December 01, 2020, 07:32:12 PM »


Nate Silver with some interesting data about Thanksgiving travel/gatherings. I kind of struggled to read the graphs with a quick glance, but I think it's saying that there weren't that many people who saw people outside of their tight circle that normally wouldn't.

yeah that's interesting. I think what makes it tricky is that many people are likely to interact with different people - for example I know people I work with who hang out with a small group of friends in SF but flew home to Minnesota to be with their family. So like they would have hung out with someone every weekend it's just for Thanksgiving it was with their family in a different region. You were probably also be more likely to have larger groups which is sort of captured with the hosting/traveling separation.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12502 on: December 01, 2020, 08:09:57 PM »
who wants to see a copy of the petition!?

 :adios:

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12503 on: December 01, 2020, 08:14:56 PM »
Quote
The sports bar is owned by Steve Stegall, who became a well known figure in 2018 when his wife was abruptly deported back to Mexico by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents.

Neither Stegall nor his lawyer could be reached on Tuesday afternoon.

Stegall told KCMO-AM’s conservative talk radio host Pete Mundo on Tuesday that he had hoped to get more bars involved in the lawsuit, but none ultimately agreed. He said Kansas City bars are particularly struggling with a 10 p.m. curfew, as bars over in Johnson County are allowed to remain open until midnight. Jackson, Clay and Platte counties in Missouri and Wyandotte County in Kansas also have 10 p.m. curfews.

If nothing else, he would like to see more flexibility from City Hall. He noted that this Sunday’s 10 p.m. closure would mean patrons would have to leave before the end of the Kansas City Chiefs game against the Denver Broncos.

“We’re trying to get our hours extended because this 10 p.m. is really screwing everybody in Missouri,” he said. “Everybody’s going to Kansas. It’s killing everybody. I’ve talked to multiple bar owners. And it’s killing everybody.”

:lol:

Are people traveling to Kansas at 10pm to drink or earlier so they can keep drinking past 10 and then go back to Missouri?

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12504 on: December 01, 2020, 08:17:10 PM »

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12505 on: December 01, 2020, 11:26:41 PM »
that silver data is pretty encouraging.  i'm not sure it captures the nature of the interaction with other people, but even so, it's a lot better than i'd have guessed.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12506 on: December 02, 2020, 12:10:00 AM »
Quote
The sports bar is owned by Steve Stegall, who became a well known figure in 2018 when his wife was abruptly deported back to Mexico by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents.

Neither Stegall nor his lawyer could be reached on Tuesday afternoon.

Stegall told KCMO-AM’s conservative talk radio host Pete Mundo on Tuesday that he had hoped to get more bars involved in the lawsuit, but none ultimately agreed. He said Kansas City bars are particularly struggling with a 10 p.m. curfew, as bars over in Johnson County are allowed to remain open until midnight. Jackson, Clay and Platte counties in Missouri and Wyandotte County in Kansas also have 10 p.m. curfews.

If nothing else, he would like to see more flexibility from City Hall. He noted that this Sunday’s 10 p.m. closure would mean patrons would have to leave before the end of the Kansas City Chiefs game against the Denver Broncos.

“We’re trying to get our hours extended because this 10 p.m. is really screwing everybody in Missouri,” he said. “Everybody’s going to Kansas. It’s killing everybody. I’ve talked to multiple bar owners. And it’s killing everybody.”

:lol:

Are people traveling to Kansas at 10pm to drink or earlier so they can keep drinking past 10 and then go back to Missouri?


Kietzman is going to go off on, black lib Q.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12507 on: December 02, 2020, 09:27:41 AM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Following your logic they shouldn’t have to close at 3 am either bc it’s arbitrary
3 am is arbitrary, but at least businesses understood that and had that expectation. 

In other words, they don't "lose 40% of their revenue" (and need to fire staff, etc.) by closing at 3 am.

Who determined it's a marginal benefit?
If you're open from 11am-10pm under certain circumstances, I just don't see why also being open from 10pm-3am under those same circumstances would present any additional significant risk.  If the rules are being followed/enforced, what's the difference? 


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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12508 on: December 02, 2020, 09:33:27 AM »
I don't think that I'm going too far out on a limb to say the rules are harder to enforce and aren't being followed consistently after 10pm

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12509 on: December 02, 2020, 09:58:38 AM »
even if the "rules" are followed people will be talking louder and more often from being drunk and not eating and therefore more likely to spread. I think dlew has been diagnosed with a good ol' case of willful ignorance

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12510 on: December 02, 2020, 10:06:04 AM »
Who is the idiot that predicted it would fade from the news?  It is literally everywhere

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12511 on: December 02, 2020, 10:06:29 AM »
I'm sure this has been talked about but I still find it odd when someone is walking there dog in a quiet neighborhood with a mask on. Personal preference I get that just find it a little quirky, especially when it was hot as balls out during the summer.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12512 on: December 02, 2020, 10:14:44 AM »
I'm sure this has been talked about but I still find it odd when someone is walking there dog in a quiet neighborhood with a mask on. Personal preference I get that just find it a little quirky, especially when it was hot as balls out during the summer.

I think masks outside are very silly but wear one anyway to make people I pass on the street feel more comfortable. I don't think that's particularly odd.

If there's no one around I might take it off depending on what I'm doing and how long I'll be doing it away from other people but I'll always have one with me.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12513 on: December 02, 2020, 10:19:02 AM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Following your logic they shouldn’t have to close at 3 am either bc it’s arbitrary
3 am is arbitrary, but at least businesses understood that and had that expectation. 

In other words, they don't "lose 40% of their revenue" (and need to fire staff, etc.) by closing at 3 am.

Who determined it's a marginal benefit?
If you're open from 11am-10pm under certain circumstances, I just don't see why also being open from 10pm-3am under those same circumstances would present any additional significant risk.  If the rules are being followed/enforced, what's the difference?

So you don't remember Aggieville bars being different from 11a-10p and 10-2am? 

It sucks bars are losing revenue.  Many industries and people are with these restrictions.   

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12514 on: December 02, 2020, 10:24:17 AM »
I'm sure this has been talked about but I still find it odd when someone is walking there dog in a quiet neighborhood with a mask on. Personal preference I get that just find it a little quirky, especially when it was hot as balls out during the summer.

I think masks outside are very silly but wear one anyway to make people I pass on the street feel more comfortable. I don't think that's particularly odd.

If there's no one around I might take it off depending on what I'm doing and how long I'll be doing it away from other people but I'll always have one with me.
Yep thats all understandable imo. I routinely see a gal that is probably in her early 50s walking her dog by herself with absolutely no one around wearing one just puzzles me a bit. The other day I was jogging around my block and didn't mean to come up on her but she beelined away from me as quick as she could. Think people are just very scared of each other right now.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12515 on: December 02, 2020, 10:25:44 AM »
the argument of "why do anything if you can't do everything?" is pretty lol

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12516 on: December 02, 2020, 10:29:11 AM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Following your logic they shouldn’t have to close at 3 am either bc it’s arbitrary
3 am is arbitrary, but at least businesses understood that and had that expectation. 

In other words, they don't "lose 40% of their revenue" (and need to fire staff, etc.) by closing at 3 am.

Who determined it's a marginal benefit?
If you're open from 11am-10pm under certain circumstances, I just don't see why also being open from 10pm-3am under those same circumstances would present any additional significant risk.  If the rules are being followed/enforced, what's the difference?

So you don't remember Aggieville bars being different from 11a-10p and 10-2am? 

It sucks bars are losing revenue.  Many industries and people are with these restrictions.
Wear masks, make people sit at tables, limit capacity.  Aggieville 10-2 am would look different regardless.

even if the "rules" are followed people will be talking louder and more often from being drunk and not eating and therefore more likely to spread. I think dlew has been diagnosed with a good ol' case of willful ignorance
People talk louder when they're not eating? 

Listen, I'm not saying it's safe to drink at bars, I'm saying the idea that "it becomes significantly less safe for people to drink at bars after 10 pm" doesn't make sense to me.  If we say it's permissibly safe for 60 people to eat/drink in a bar all day long with the understanding that staff is required to enforce the rules, it doesn't follow to me that night time makes that significantly more dangerous.

If we're trusting bars/restaurants to enforce the rules on busy NFL sunday afternoons, then why not Friday at midnight?


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12517 on: December 02, 2020, 10:31:56 AM »
the argument of "why do anything if you can't do everything?" is pretty lol
Because if what you're doing appears arbitrary and hurts people, it needs to be defended with something better than "people talk louder when they're drunk and not eating."

Also, we can "do everything."  If we want to shut down bars/restaurants, we can do that.  But letting them stay 60% open seems like the worst of both worlds.

The cost benefit just doesn't make sense to me.


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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12518 on: December 02, 2020, 10:38:17 AM »
Huh.  That seems pretty arbitrary so long as the other measures are being taken.  I can understand why bars/restaurants are throwing fits about that.

I pretty much agree but I think indoor dining should be shut down altogether and the bars and restaurants and their employees should be given money. This absolves the city/any other jurisdiction from having to provide any sort of support to the businesses but also lets them act like they're doing something.

I don't know what other tools KC has at their disposal until there's a vaccine.
Yeah that's at least consistent.  I don't see how the cost benefit calculus works out if we're letting people eat and drink indoors all day long but then shut things down at night.  The Blue Line (KC hockey bar) filed a lawsuit today in which they said that 40 percent of their business comes between 10 pm and 3 am.  Seems like a big price to pay for only a marginal benefit public health-wise.

Following your logic they shouldn’t have to close at 3 am either bc it’s arbitrary
3 am is arbitrary, but at least businesses understood that and had that expectation. 

In other words, they don't "lose 40% of their revenue" (and need to fire staff, etc.) by closing at 3 am.

Who determined it's a marginal benefit?
If you're open from 11am-10pm under certain circumstances, I just don't see why also being open from 10pm-3am under those same circumstances would present any additional significant risk.  If the rules are being followed/enforced, what's the difference?

So you don't remember Aggieville bars being different from 11a-10p and 10-2am? 

It sucks bars are losing revenue.  Many industries and people are with these restrictions.
Wear masks, make people sit at tables, limit capacity.  Aggieville 10-2 am would look different regardless.

even if the "rules" are followed people will be talking louder and more often from being drunk and not eating and therefore more likely to spread. I think dlew has been diagnosed with a good ol' case of willful ignorance
People talk louder when they're not eating? 

Listen, I'm not saying it's safe to drink at bars, I'm saying the idea that "it becomes significantly less safe for people to drink at bars after 10 pm" doesn't make sense to me.  If we say it's permissibly safe for 60 people to eat/drink in a bar all day long with the understanding that staff is required to enforce the rules, it doesn't follow to me that night time makes that significantly more dangerous.

If we're trusting bars/restaurants to enforce the rules on busy NFL sunday afternoons, then why not Friday at midnight?
Think the after 10pm crowd tends to become a little more inebriated and less likely to stay within the confines of their group is why they do it.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12519 on: December 02, 2020, 10:50:14 AM »
I received a photo from an acquaintance on Saturday night just before 10pm. Brewtop Pub in Overland Park was pretty much packed to the gills and not a mask in site. 
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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12520 on: December 02, 2020, 10:51:08 AM »
You're working under the assumption that a bar/restaurant and their staff enforce the rules equally well in the afternoon as they do at night.  This is an absolutely wild assumption to me.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12521 on: December 02, 2020, 10:54:59 AM »
even if the "rules" are followed people will be talking louder and more often from being drunk and not eating and therefore more likely to spread. I think dlew has been diagnosed with a good ol' case of willful ignorance
People talk louder when they're not eating? 

no but they'll probably talk more often

I received a photo from an acquaintance on Saturday night just before 10pm. Brewtop Pub in Overland Park was pretty much packed to the gills and not a mask in site. 

crazy that people aren't wearing masks at the place that exists to put stuff in your face


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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12522 on: December 02, 2020, 11:33:33 AM »
You're working under the assumption that a bar/restaurant and their staff enforce the rules equally well in the afternoon as they do at night.  This is an absolutely wild assumption to me.
Yeah I guess if they can't/won't enforce it, they'd face a penalty, just like they would in the daytime.  It just seems nuts to me that the city is placing this hardship on the restaurant owners/employees. 

Maybe that's just where we're at, but crap that seems pretty unfair.  I don't blame bar owners for trying to seek some recourse before their business dies or they're forced to layoff swaths of their employees.


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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12523 on: December 02, 2020, 11:45:37 AM »
So if someone knows how to use casenet you can get all the info for the webex TRO hearing next week....you know just in case.

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Re: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread
« Reply #12524 on: December 02, 2020, 11:47:34 AM »
Bars should be closed except for take out.

The federal government should be bailing out the owners and employees.