Author Topic: CoronaBro Meltdown/SARS-Covid-19 Spitballing Thread  (Read 1499052 times)

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3825 on: April 10, 2020, 10:30:06 PM »
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/scott-gottlieb-coronavirus-would-have-been-far-more-deadly-than-spanish-flu-if-it-appeared-in-1918/

Well, except for the BL4 Lab Doing Bat Research in China, this is a great point.   (Also the French weren't helping build BL4 Labs in China back then either)


Offline catastrophe

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3826 on: April 10, 2020, 10:40:14 PM »
This sounds promising or for some, enraging. 



https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1248424461163872260?s=20


https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ABSTRACT-v-2-GB.pdf

Far be it from me to piss in anyone's cheerios, but the physicians in charge of that "study" didn't include a control group of patients who didn't receive the HCQ-AZ treatment and track their outcomes. You might as well throw all that data in the garbage because if you don't perform the proper control experiments, you can't draw any conclusions as to how significant the data is.

Trey, thanks for the Captain Obvious talking point.

Then why didn't you point it out? Or, due to poor experimental design, were you also in the category of people who found it "enraging"?
If true, the study would still be important to show no significant health risks to the treatment (obviously depending on how they selected their subjects).

Also you can compare the death rate vs average for COVID-19 or even average for the local area. Won’t accurately tell you the efficacy but it will indicate whether it’s making a difference at all.

You would need to look at the outcomes of patients that only fit within the criteria that you selected for with the treatment group, but even then these two groups are offset by time, which means that there's a high probability that the quality of care for each group is significantly different AND also, the virus might have mutated over time from the non-treatment group to the treatment group. There's just too many variables to reasonably draw any conclusions.
Again, haven’t read the study but I doubt it’s intended to reach conclusions. It’s more of a proof of concept. Assuming the abstract is accurate I definitely think it warrants a larger scale clinical trial.

Offline sys

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3827 on: April 10, 2020, 10:51:47 PM »
Again, haven’t read the study but I doubt it’s intended to reach conclusions. It’s more of a proof of concept. Assuming the abstract is accurate I definitely think it warrants a larger scale clinical trial.

there are real trials being conducted currently (although, iirc a couple were shut down due to side effects).
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline sys

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3828 on: April 10, 2020, 10:55:09 PM »
At the very least, I think we can all agree we aren't doing enough

yeah, and i've already seen a few anecdotes here and there that the small business loan program, which sounded great although too small in both scale and scope, is woefully inadequate and proceeding very slowly.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3829 on: April 10, 2020, 10:59:53 PM »
Check back with your POS Nancy Pelosi in May Sys Whack-A-Doo


Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3830 on: April 10, 2020, 11:41:04 PM »
#1love Dax

Offline michigancat

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3831 on: April 11, 2020, 12:18:51 AM »
Pelosi did a terrible job with the stimulus.

Offline sys

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3832 on: April 11, 2020, 12:35:03 AM »
this thread on problems and potential problems in nursing homes, prisons, etc is disturbing.  probably not the worst item mentioned, but the mention of lack of supplies in the VA stood out to me.  if the "federal" stockpile of medical supplies is not being distributed to the states, who the eff is federal if not the VA?

https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1248774501392941056
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline sys

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3833 on: April 11, 2020, 12:47:22 AM »
i guess the good news is that we should be able to rapidly continue ramping up the number of tests performed as these problems are resolved.

https://twitter.com/ChelseaClinton/status/1248630553789771776
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline sys

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3834 on: April 11, 2020, 01:00:56 AM »
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1248698754556923904

there's a specific vein in my neck that start bulge whenever someone wonders why an antibiotic isn't effective against a virus


as bad as they sound live, his comments always make even less sense in written transcripts.

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1248811186432413707
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline treysolid

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Offline steve dave

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3836 on: April 11, 2020, 08:52:15 AM »
incredible self own quoting an anti-vaxxer

https://twitter.com/AlexMarlow/status/1248722861222768640

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3837 on: April 11, 2020, 09:18:41 AM »
This is this guys second account.  He supposedly calls it a parody account to try and hide it from the CCPBots who supposedly got his last “parody” account shut down.   He posts some dubious stuff.  But he’s posted a ton of video of huge industrial fires in China lately.   He’s a researcher at the Univ of Chicago.

The story is that if a company is going to fail they torch it and the state collects the money from itself because supposedly all the insurance is backed by the state.   But for the “owners” it’s like career and wealth suicide and shame.  It’s all a bit cryptic. 

https://twitter.com/phdparody/status/1248964969854636032?s=21

Offline star seed 7

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Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline michigancat

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3839 on: April 11, 2020, 11:16:46 AM »
This is just unreal

Quote
Firms partnering on the Airbridge flights tell NPR that under their agreement with the White House and FEMA, roughly half the medical equipment in those deliveries is theirs to sell however they like. The other half will be shipped to COVID-19 hotspots but not necessarily to the worst-hit hospitals. Once again, supplies go to existing customers.

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1249004874064449536

Offline Bqqkie Pimp

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3840 on: April 11, 2020, 11:21:56 AM »
Dr. @treysolid  Since you claim to be the most knowledgable about all of this, true or false?

Quote
COVID-19 attacks a blood cell's ability to carry oxygen, similar effect to Carbon Monoxide or Malaria. As such, ventilator can't fix that.

Hydroxychloroquine blocks the virus from being able to disrupt the FE2+ and FE3+ oxygen bonding cycle.


I'll hang up and listen off air. 
bears are fast...

Offline Bqqkie Pimp

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3841 on: April 11, 2020, 12:17:25 PM »
Ok... who the eff kidnapped Bill Maher?!?!?   :sdeek:

https://twitter.com/billmaher/status/1248814741893476352?s=20
bears are fast...

Offline michigancat

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3842 on: April 11, 2020, 12:29:11 PM »
cracks me up when people discover Bill Maher isn't a liberal every couple of years

Offline Bqqkie Pimp

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3843 on: April 11, 2020, 12:30:15 PM »
Dr. @treysolid  Since you claim to be the most knowledgable about all of this, true or false?

Quote
COVID-19 attacks a blood cell's ability to carry oxygen, similar effect to Carbon Monoxide or Malaria. As such, ventilator can't fix that.

Hydroxychloroquine blocks the virus from being able to disrupt the FE2+ and FE3+ oxygen bonding cycle.


I'll hang up and listen off air.

https://threader.app/thread/1247341092921458690

Quote
You want freaky?
Covid messes with the Fe2+ / Fe3+ oxygen cycle
Cov Fe Fe
Covfefe

Just saying.

Yep....  The first part came straight from the article linked here: https://archive.is/ONUmi  that I'd posted before and Rage called it a "virus".   I saw the second tweet about #covfefe as well...  interesting theory, but VERY far-fetched iyam; there's just way too many moving parts for that to be believable.
bears are fast...

Offline treysolid

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3844 on: April 11, 2020, 12:32:58 PM »
Dr. @treysolid  Since you claim to be the most knowledgable about all of this, true or false?

Quote
COVID-19 attacks a blood cell's ability to carry oxygen, similar effect to Carbon Monoxide or Malaria. As such, ventilator can't fix that.

Hydroxychloroquine blocks the virus from being able to disrupt the FE2+ and FE3+ oxygen bonding cycle.


I'll hang up and listen off air.

I presume that what you're referring to is this ChemRxiv paper here:

https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173

The first thing I noticed about that paper is that the main author is a member of the computer science and engineering department at their school, and indeed, there was no "wet work" done for this paper. Instead, they did a bunch of in silico docking models to see how the viral proteins might bind to porphyrins like heme. So...this all took place in a computer model, NOT in real life.

Second scroll all the way down and look at the version notes: (my comments in bold)

Quote
1. Viral protein infects hemoglobin by the immune hemolysis of red blood cells (what this means is that their explanation for how the viral proteins can interact with hemoglobin is that the red blood cell MUST BREAK OPEN FIRST. We know that covid-19 gains entry to cells by binding to the ACE2 receptor, but I couldn't find any evidence that ACE2 is expressed on the surface of RBCs at any significant level, link below to human protein atlas. So I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit, because if a significant portion of your RBCs are lysing, you've got WAY bigger problems than a viral infection)
2 This article is for academic discussion only, without experimental prove. we hope that qualified laboratories can do experimental verification (There you go, no experimental proof)
3.  Since the ability of chloroquine to inhibit structural proteins is not particularly obvious, the therapeutic effect on different people may be different. Due to the side effects and allergic reactions of drugs such as chloroquine, please consult a qualified doctor for treatment details, and do not take the medicine yourself.

https://www.proteinatlas.org/ENSG00000130234-ACE2/blood

The respiratory distress produced by the coronavirus isn't caused by disruption of hemoglobins ability to carry oxygen, it's caused because of the inflammatory immune response to the tissues affected by the disease (primarily the lungs, when oxygen is loaded into RBCs in the first place) and there might also be some effects due to pathway misregulation around ACE2, which is involved in vasodilation (the ability of blood vessels to dilate and move blood to tissues that need to be oxygenated).

Tl:dr the premise for this paper is mumped
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 12:40:33 PM by treysolid »

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3845 on: April 11, 2020, 01:55:51 PM »
cracks me up when people discover Bill Maher isn't a liberal every couple of years

Ya know for an old Boomer he has some good crap to say.  But ya it's true he is bias like a left wing MEGA.  :ROFL: 
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline treysolid

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3846 on: April 11, 2020, 02:39:31 PM »
@michigancat, how does this compare to your wife's experience currently?

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-10/california-coronavirus-slowed-hospitals-empty-new-york?utm_source=digg

i personally think newsom has done a really good job - i think that initially tailoring the state response to mimic the response of SF/Santa Clara was a really good move and if he's smart, he'll adjust the state response to bias more towards LA county now.

Offline Bqqkie Pimp

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3847 on: April 11, 2020, 02:46:34 PM »
Dr. @treysolid  Since you claim to be the most knowledgable about all of this, true or false?

Quote
COVID-19 attacks a blood cell's ability to carry oxygen, similar effect to Carbon Monoxide or Malaria. As such, ventilator can't fix that.

Hydroxychloroquine blocks the virus from being able to disrupt the FE2+ and FE3+ oxygen bonding cycle.


I'll hang up and listen off air.

I presume that what you're referring to is this ChemRxiv paper here:

https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173

The first thing I noticed about that paper is that the main author is a member of the computer science and engineering department at their school, and indeed, there was no "wet work" done for this paper. Instead, they did a bunch of in silico docking models to see how the viral proteins might bind to porphyrins like heme. So...this all took place in a computer model, NOT in real life.

Second scroll all the way down and look at the version notes: (my comments in bold)

Quote
1. Viral protein infects hemoglobin by the immune hemolysis of red blood cells (what this means is that their explanation for how the viral proteins can interact with hemoglobin is that the red blood cell MUST BREAK OPEN FIRST. We know that covid-19 gains entry to cells by binding to the ACE2 receptor, but I couldn't find any evidence that ACE2 is expressed on the surface of RBCs at any significant level, link below to human protein atlas. So I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit, because if a significant portion of your RBCs are lysing, you've got WAY bigger problems than a viral infection)
2 This article is for academic discussion only, without experimental prove. we hope that qualified laboratories can do experimental verification (There you go, no experimental proof)
3.  Since the ability of chloroquine to inhibit structural proteins is not particularly obvious, the therapeutic effect on different people may be different. Due to the side effects and allergic reactions of drugs such as chloroquine, please consult a qualified doctor for treatment details, and do not take the medicine yourself.

https://www.proteinatlas.org/ENSG00000130234-ACE2/blood

The respiratory distress produced by the coronavirus isn't caused by disruption of hemoglobins ability to carry oxygen, it's caused because of the inflammatory immune response to the tissues affected by the disease (primarily the lungs, when oxygen is loaded into RBCs in the first place) and there might also be some effects due to pathway misregulation around ACE2, which is involved in vasodilation (the ability of blood vessels to dilate and move blood to tissues that need to be oxygenated).

Tl:dr the premise for this paper is mumped

Thanks, treysolid....  I'm not trying to argue with you.  I'm really just trying to understand how more people can be spared their lives that contract this crap.

Even if anecdotal, it seems that there is A LOT of info coming out from docs on the frontlines saying that in many cases ventilators (when used) were causing more harm than good and that many were finding positive results with hydrocloroquine and zinc treatments. 

If the side effect of NOT trying those medications is death, then if I were faced with the choice of waiting for "proper studies and proper trials", I'd happily be a volunteer. 
bears are fast...

Offline treysolid

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3848 on: April 11, 2020, 02:48:37 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-10/two-thirds-of-severe-covid-19-improved-on-gilead-s-remdesivir?srnd=premium

Another case of trying to look at the efficacy of a drug without a negative control group  :bang:  :bang:
But, the real clinical trial data that is currently being gathered should be very illuminating

Offline michigancat

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Re: Thanks China (and Canada) . . . Topic: CoronaVirus!
« Reply #3849 on: April 11, 2020, 02:53:54 PM »
@michigancat, how does this compare to your wife's experience currently?

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-04-10/california-coronavirus-slowed-hospitals-empty-new-york?utm_source=digg

i personally think newsom has done a really good job - i think that initially tailoring the state response to mimic the response of SF/Santa Clara was a really good move and if he's smart, he'll adjust the state response to bias more towards LA county now.

They're definitely more stable than they expected to be. Right around the time shelter in place started, they were converting existing units to negative pressure ICU's which really helped. There's also no visitors allowed unless they know a patient is about to die, then they'll only let one person in which makes the whole place quieter. PPE is still pretty lean, all the hospitals are having doctors and nurses put N95's in Tupperware or plastic bags between patients to reuse them.

And yeah I think Newsom's done a decent job. The shelter in place definitely helped.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 03:02:52 PM by michigancat »