Author Topic: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance  (Read 720 times)

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Offline Spracne

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2021, 08:49:34 PM »
Ultra rich don't have too much income, as already noted. In order to implement the "wealth tax" being discussed ITT, it would take a radical departure from centuries of property law related to trusts. Could be dicey. Or could maybe be as simple as amending the definition of "income" under the IRS code. Never really studied it. Personally, I don't believe Congress will ever close such a door without opening a window.

Offline sys

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2021, 09:57:07 PM »
Ultra rich don't have too much income, as already noted.

he specifically said he wanted to increase taxes on their income, which is why i suggested increasing taxes on their income.
"a lot of political rhetoric is picking a slice of "elites" and positioning yourselves against them."

Offline catastrophe

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Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2021, 10:10:46 PM »
Ultra rich don't have too much income, as already noted.

he specifically said he wanted to increase taxes on their income, which is why i suggested increasing taxes on their income.
You misread. I said they should pay a much larger proportion of their income in taxes than any other American. And even then I should have said percentage, because I have no issue with the tax being a multiple of what they actually make in “income.”

Offline sys

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2021, 10:19:15 PM »
I have no issue with the tax being a multiple of what they actually make in “income.”

huh.
"a lot of political rhetoric is picking a slice of "elites" and positioning yourselves against them."

Offline catastrophe

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Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2021, 12:32:46 AM »
You are still fixated on the concept of traditional income tax when I keep saying that’s not what I’m talking about when I say “wealth tax.”

Mr. Moneybags makes $500k a year in taxable income but has $1 billion in other investments. I have no issues with a yearly tax of $1 million+ even though that would be more than 200% (two times) his income.

Offline sys

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2021, 01:31:36 AM »
income is not equal to taxable income.  since this whole exercise revolves around massaging tax policy in one way or another, it doesn't make much sense to me to reference taxable income as a constant when much of the discussion of necessity will involve changing how different types of income are treated.
"a lot of political rhetoric is picking a slice of "elites" and positioning yourselves against them."

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2021, 09:37:32 AM »
Ok well that explains it if your confusion stems from the fact that you’re assuming “income” has no particular meaning in this context. You seemed to understand when responding to the point that the mega rich don’t have much income.

Offline memphis

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2021, 09:43:58 AM »
Ultra rich don't have too much income, as already noted. In order to implement the "wealth tax" being discussed ITT, it would take a radical departure from centuries of property law related to trusts. Could be dicey. Or could maybe be as simple as amending the definition of "income" under the IRS code. Never really studied it. Personally, I don't believe Congress will ever close such a door without opening a window.

I haven't dug into it, but curious how stepped up basis and trusts interact when speaking towards capital gains and if and when they are taxed. Obvi step up in basis has different implications for assets that don't split up very well (physical property ect. vs ones that seems easier stocks ect.)

Offline sys

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2021, 03:25:37 PM »
Ok well that explains it if your confusion stems from the fact that you’re assuming “income” has no particular meaning in this context. You seemed to understand when responding to the point that the mega rich don’t have much income.

yeah, after i posted, i decided i didn't express myself well and was too critical of your post when i was doing the same thing.  there are a lot of terms involved that have very precise meanings with respect to u.s. taxation and also have more general meanings in regular speech or are related to terminology used more generally and unless one is pretty pedantic is carefully crafting a post it's pretty likely that other posters will not understand exactly what you are trying to communicate.
"a lot of political rhetoric is picking a slice of "elites" and positioning yourselves against them."

Offline Spracne

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2021, 08:35:54 PM »
Ok well that explains it if your confusion stems from the fact that you’re assuming “income” has no particular meaning in this context. You seemed to understand when responding to the point that the mega rich don’t have much income.

yeah, after i posted, i decided i didn't express myself well and was too critical of your post when i was doing the same thing.  there are a lot of terms involved that have very precise meanings with respect to u.s. taxation and also have more general meanings in regular speech or are related to terminology used more generally and unless one is pretty pedantic is carefully crafting a post it's pretty likely that other posters will not understand exactly what you are trying to communicate.
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Online steve dave

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Re: Soros & Buffet, All Hat No Cattle, Kings of Tax Avoidance
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2021, 06:03:25 PM »
Hasn't Yglesias been all over the stepped up basis around this topic (heirs selling stocks ect and what gains they are tax responsible for if the previous person basically never sold but took out loans as income based on their value)?

not that i've noticed.

just most recent yglesias mention I've seen so OT