Cath-O-Lics!

[Pete]

I will say the Catholics do a damn good coaching search when the time comes.  Would like to see smoke signals utilized in KSU AD going forward.

That would be amazing. Everyone camped out on the front lawn of Anderson Hall…each day at 6 PM (an homage to our heritage as a founding member of the Big 6) smoke will be released from the spire indicating the status. White signals that we are still awaiting Eddie Fogler’s recommendation.  Black signals Turnkey consulting is still working on it.  Purple smoke means we have either met with the candidate in an airport hotel or they have accepted the offer.

[cfbandyman]

Papal infallibility seems to be as flexible as cardinals allow it to be. So, if Francis loads it up with like minded fellas, then there we go, right?

Not really, no.

Well, should be no reason for concern then. Whew!

The "Cardinal packing" stuff doesn't really bother me, though I don't know much about it.  If he just wants to gear it towards emphasizing more attention to the poor across the Earth, no problem with me at all.

I suspect that is indeed most of it. Again, he seems like a genuinely great guy.

I do think Pope Francis is a good guy. I’ve said it before, but it’s pretty interesting if you compare the Pharisees’ reactions to Jesus’s teaching in the New Testament vs. “traditional” Catholics and Pope Francis.

People get addicted to rules and authority. People can really struggle with a message based on love and respect over rules and judgment.

I couldn’t agree more!

Yeah, what cat said is pretty much my limited view on the now mostly outside look of why traditional Catholics don't like him. He's definitely trying to in general "modernize" the church to be less preachy, and more service-y (like, doing service to others not the mass part). I do think it's more the "correct" take (though like DQ, and for me, the only thin I really like is the traditionally service, it can be boring, but like, it is how you glorify God, it's top notch) cause the church has been becoming old, decrepit, and with the scandals it has been needing someone to give it a reboot a bit.

Old catholics are nothing but haters of change, so to have Francis come around really makes them very uncomfortable, cause they have to battle this "what they've always known" with the new directions from the head guy.

FWIW every congregation is made of true believers, those who pay as much lip service to be in the good graces of the true believers, and the heathens, who the first two groups loathe but the second one quietly knows they aren't any better than.

[DQ12]

(though like DQ, and for me, the only thin I really like is the traditionally service, it can be boring, but like, it is how you glorify God, it's top notch)

My view is that, what we believe happens during the Mass deserves to have a mystical/reverent feel to it.  The ritual/incense/latin elements are warranted, given the significance of the context, imo.  To quote the Legend, that's not something to be taken lightly.
 The jokey-jokes and acoustic guitars and general informality just feels inappropriate and out of place to me.  That said, if that stuff gets some people to the place they need to be in to receive communion, then hey, whatever floats their boat. 

It's stylistic, but the ritual does it for me and others, and I think it's pretty easy to see why people are protective of it.

[Cartierfor3]

I like that DLew, well said.

Although not a cath, one of the things I really appreciate about the faith is the local nature of it. Prots and especially evangelicals often choose a church for reasons that aren't necessarily bad but are more individualistic (I love the preacher, the church has people my age, the church has a great kids ministry etc.). Caths choose their parish based on what's in my neighborhood. This approach leads to people living near whom they worship with. I like that a lot. 

[DQ12]

I like that DLew, well said.

Although not a cath, one of the things I really appreciate about the faith is the local nature of it. Prots and especially evangelicals often choose a church for reasons that aren't necessarily bad but are more individualistic (I love the preacher, the church has people my age, the church has a great kids ministry etc.). Caths choose their parish based on what's in my neighborhood. This approach leads to people living near whom they worship with. I like that a lot.

Yeah, although I will say that the church I attend isn't the closest one to me (or the next closest), though it's still only about a 7 minute drive.  I just looked it up, there are 5 Catholic churches within 2.5 miles of my house.   

[mocat]

pete, the current pope is jesuit. i am not catholic but when i was in 8th grade on a tour of rockhurst, a jesuit priest was trying to explain what jesuits were relative to mainline catholics. the one thing i remember is they said "a jesuit priest will never become pope". it's basically if bernie sanders became president

[Sandstone Outcropping]

(though like DQ, and for me, the only thin I really like is the traditionally service, it can be boring, but like, it is how you glorify God, it's top notch)

My view is that, what we believe happens during the Mass deserves to have a mystical/reverent feel to it.  The ritual/incense/latin elements are warranted, given the significance of the context, imo.  To quote the Legend, that's not something to be taken lightly.
 The jokey-jokes and acoustic guitars and general informality just feels inappropriate and out of place to me.  That said, if that stuff gets some people to the place they need to be in to receive communion, then hey, whatever floats their boat. 

It's stylistic, but the ritual does it for me and others, and I think it's pretty easy to see why people are protective of it.

I'm kind of jealous of the way Catholic people can go to any Catholic mass or funeral or wedding and know exactly what to expect. The strain of protestantism that I come from tries to avoid being "ritualistic" to the point that sometimes you never quite sure what you are going to get in a wedding or church service. Also, a lot of Protestant services are overly focused on the sermon rather than the other communal elements of the service. Unless someone is an incredibly good communicator, they should probably only speak for 20 - 25 minutes.

[Pete]

pete, the current pope is jesuit. i am not catholic but when i was in 8th grade on a tour of rockhurst, a jesuit priest was trying to explain what jesuits were relative to mainline catholics. the one thing i remember is they said "a jesuit priest will never become pope". it's basically if bernie sanders became president

He’s kinda a hybrid, since he chose Francis as his name.  The St. Francis prayer is one of my favorites.

[Cartierfor3]

Now its already been well documented ITT I'm pro-catholic.

However.


I don't like the thing they do where the wedding is at 1 and reception is at 6 because of afternoon mass.

[cfbandyman]

(though like DQ, and for me, the only thin I really like is the traditionally service, it can be boring, but like, it is how you glorify God, it's top notch)

My view is that, what we believe happens during the Mass deserves to have a mystical/reverent feel to it.  The ritual/incense/latin elements are warranted, given the significance of the context, imo.  To quote the Legend, that's not something to be taken lightly.
 The jokey-jokes and acoustic guitars and general informality just feels inappropriate and out of place to me.  That said, if that stuff gets some people to the place they need to be in to receive communion, then hey, whatever floats their boat. 

It's stylistic, but the ritual does it for me and others, and I think it's pretty easy to see why people are protective of it.

It honestly took me a long time to be more comfortable with the more sing-songy and open ways others do it, because of how mass is structured, it felt so short of actually properly doing it. But agree with you, I think different strokes for different folks is important, we all are after all trying to figure it out, no one is 100% right, and it's all fairly open to interpretation. If anything having gone to catholic mass, baptist, presbytarian, methodist, and lutheran services the thing that always strikes me is what is being said is almost always the same, but how it's utilized rests almost exclusively in the pastor/priest/preacher. Even one catholic church to the next depending on what that priest's hobby horse is can change the general tenor and demeanor of the church they lead.

I think as long as people who do go to church, regardless of their denomination follow the following guidelines everyone is better:

1) You're imperfect, as is the priest/pastor/preacher, and therefore your judgement, and theirs should be seen from the lens of an imperfect person, it is ok to disagree with them and even challenge them, as long as you're respectful.

2) Be wary of churches that value treasure above time and talent

3) Truly find out why you believe in what your congregation is making you believe, Jesus wants you to be part of his flock but I don't think he wants you to actually be a sheep.

4) Have perspective, infighting over doctrine regardless of religion has basically been going on since the beginning of time, there is no grand unified theory and no "right" was to do things, and if Jesus didn't talk about it then it's some dude just freestyling to try and make it seem like he did (Paul).

5) Take and apply those same principles to all aspects of your life, other religions and other people who aren't religious go through basically the same thing morally, mentally, and spiritually.