Author Topic: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats  (Read 535166 times)

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Online MakeItRain

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6925 on: March 24, 2020, 07:55:39 PM »
the only people that seem pissed at Bernie being in are people that already hated Bernie and they don’t seem to have any good reason for him to get out and one really obvious reason they don’t want him in the race so I’m convinced Bernie should definitely stay in.

Seems that way

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6926 on: March 24, 2020, 07:58:14 PM »
I've said a couple times that I think there's the potential for Bernie to start integrating progressives into the party more by dropping out and trying to rally around Biden, as much as it would suck now. But I think it's a good long-term play for progressive causes.

I think the best way to do this is to stay in and keep forcing him to move left. If Bernie turtles now there's no incentive for Biden to take a position on anything. He needs to be forced to express platforms as much as possible, I don't know how there's any accountability otherwise.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6927 on: March 24, 2020, 11:07:49 PM »
why in the world would biden feel it necessary to move to the left merely because sanders refuses to suspend his campaign?
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6928 on: March 25, 2020, 02:26:25 AM »
why in the world would biden feel it necessary to move to the left merely because sanders refuses to suspend his campaign?

Who in the world suggested that? Moving left is the only way that Biden will attract Sanders supporters. Rusty suggested that the best way to do that is for Bernie to quit and the party to coalesce. That didn't happen four years ago and it sure won't happen now. The best way to get those supporters is for Bernie to stay in and drag Joe's ass left.

I do think that health care and our current situation leaves establishment a bit exposed.  Whether it would have made any difference or not with this crisis, progressives can and should shine a light on the failures of this current health care system.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6929 on: March 25, 2020, 03:13:23 AM »
yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me.  if biden's team thinks they need to move to the left to pick up voters they'll do so regardless of what sanders does.  and if they think he needs to stay where he is or move to the right they'll be equally unconcerned with what sanders does.  they have no reason to care about the primary whatsoever anymore.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6930 on: March 26, 2020, 09:14:59 PM »
there is a subset of sanders supporters that is as incapable of perceiving and accepting reality as are the hardcore maga.

https://twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1243191905523040258
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6931 on: March 26, 2020, 10:15:13 PM »
why in the world would biden feel it necessary to move to the left merely because sanders refuses to suspend his campaign?

Who in the world suggested that? Moving left is the only way that Biden will attract Sanders supporters. Rusty suggested that the best way to do that is for Bernie to quit and the party to coalesce. That didn't happen four years ago and it sure won't happen now. The best way to get those supporters is for Bernie to stay in and drag Joe's ass left.

I do think that health care and our current situation leaves establishment a bit exposed.  Whether it would have made any difference or not with this crisis, progressives can and should shine a light on the failures of this current health care system.
FWIW I don't think Bernie dropping out is about bringing in Sanders voters, it's more about showing the party establishment that progressives aren't out to destroy the party and sets progressives up for more long term influence and success from within the party.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6932 on: March 26, 2020, 11:53:26 PM »
why in the world would biden feel it necessary to move to the left merely because sanders refuses to suspend his campaign?

Who in the world suggested that? Moving left is the only way that Biden will attract Sanders supporters. Rusty suggested that the best way to do that is for Bernie to quit and the party to coalesce. That didn't happen four years ago and it sure won't happen now. The best way to get those supporters is for Bernie to stay in and drag Joe's ass left.

I do think that health care and our current situation leaves establishment a bit exposed.  Whether it would have made any difference or not with this crisis, progressives can and should shine a light on the failures of this current health care system.
FWIW I don't think Bernie dropping out is about bringing in Sanders voters, it's more about showing the party establishment that progressives aren't out to destroy the party and sets progressives up for more long term influence and success from within the party.

I agree with this but the establishment isn't behaving that way, they are acting like Bernie is an insurgent who wants to destroy the party. Frankly they are treating the progressives in the house the same way. Just like in '16, when Biden gets his ass kicked, there will be a healthy amount of establishment dems that will blame Bernie instead of their shitty candidate.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6933 on: March 26, 2020, 11:56:15 PM »
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6934 on: March 26, 2020, 11:58:31 PM »
why in the world would biden feel it necessary to move to the left merely because sanders refuses to suspend his campaign?

Who in the world suggested that? Moving left is the only way that Biden will attract Sanders supporters. Rusty suggested that the best way to do that is for Bernie to quit and the party to coalesce. That didn't happen four years ago and it sure won't happen now. The best way to get those supporters is for Bernie to stay in and drag Joe's ass left.

I do think that health care and our current situation leaves establishment a bit exposed.  Whether it would have made any difference or not with this crisis, progressives can and should shine a light on the failures of this current health care system.
FWIW I don't think Bernie dropping out is about bringing in Sanders voters, it's more about showing the party establishment that progressives aren't out to destroy the party and sets progressives up for more long term influence and success from within the party.

I agree with this but the establishment isn't behaving that way, they are acting like Bernie is an insurgent who wants to destroy the party. Frankly they are treating the progressives in the house the same way. Just like in '16, when Biden gets his ass kicked, there will be a healthy amount of establishment dems that will blame Bernie instead of their shitty candidate.

yeah and throwing his weight behind Biden, or at the very least against Trump, would force them to stop acting like he (and his followers) want to destroy the party and will pretty much absolve progressives of blame after Biden loses. I think this would do a better job opening doors for future national-level progressives than keeping this going and hoping Biden dies by June.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6935 on: March 26, 2020, 11:59:15 PM »

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6936 on: March 27, 2020, 12:01:16 AM »
they are acting like Bernie is an insurgent who wants to destroy the party.

https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1231021453270769664

yeah this was a really dumb moment for Bernie. He could erase most of the ill will from things like this that by going all in with Biden/against Trump.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6937 on: March 27, 2020, 12:14:24 AM »
they are acting like Bernie is an insurgent who wants to destroy the party.

https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1231021453270769664

yeah this was a really dumb moment for Bernie. He could erase most of the ill will from things like this that by going all in with Biden/against Trump.

What are you asking here? They aren't philosophically close. The issue that Bernie holds most important they are miles apart on. Most progressives and his supporters feel like neo-liberalism is a poor alternative to conservatism, some feel even worse about it. Bernie and the progressives have absolutely nothing to gain by simply going in for Biden against trump. Why? That would render everything he's done useless. It isn't like we don't have history of this playing out already, he's not stupid. He moved aside for Hillary and did more events for her than she did for Obama, it got him and the progressives absolutely nothing. The platform didn't move left at the convention, no progressives got house or senate seats in '16, and the establishment democrats still blame him for Hillary losing.

I get the fear of another four years of Trump, that's what this song and dance is all about. Acting as if he has anything to gain by moving aside is dishonest. The Democrats made this bed, it isn't his job to clean it up for them, especially given he's an independent. Quid pro quo.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6938 on: March 27, 2020, 12:17:18 AM »
What do you think that means?

he's outlining both the democratic establishment (whatever the eff that means) and the republican establishment (same) as his enemies.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6939 on: March 27, 2020, 12:21:36 AM »
What do you think that means?

he's outlining both the democratic establishment (whatever the eff that means) and the republican establishment (same) as his enemies.

You don't know what the democratic establishment means and why he's been at odds with them for 30 years? You should spend some time reading his website.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6940 on: March 27, 2020, 12:22:57 AM »
i try to avoid infecting my brain with populism.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6941 on: March 27, 2020, 12:25:31 AM »
so is the thing about Biden allegedly finger raping some lady nbd?
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6942 on: March 27, 2020, 12:25:56 AM »
they are acting like Bernie is an insurgent who wants to destroy the party.

https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1231021453270769664

yeah this was a really dumb moment for Bernie. He could erase most of the ill will from things like this that by going all in with Biden/against Trump.

What are you asking here? They aren't philosophically close. The issue that Bernie holds most important they are miles apart on. Most progressives and his supporters feel like neo-liberalism is a poor alternative to conservatism, some feel even worse about it. Bernie and the progressives have absolutely nothing to gain by simply going in for Biden against trump. Why? That would render everything he's done useless. It isn't like we don't have history of this playing out already, he's not stupid. He moved aside for Hillary and did more events for her than she did for Obama, it got him and the progressives absolutely nothing. The platform didn't move left at the convention, no progressives got house or senate seats in '16, and the establishment democrats still blame him for Hillary losing.

I get the fear of another four years of Trump, that's what this song and dance is all about. Acting as if he has anything to gain by moving aside is dishonest. The Democrats made this bed, it isn't his job to clean it up for them, especially given he's an independent. Quid pro quo.

I honestly don't disagree with anything you're saying (other than I think the party HAS shifted to the left since 2016). But while there isn't much to gain politically in 2020 by dropping out, he can do 2024 and beyond progressive candidates a lot of harm if he's constantly attacking the presumptive nominee during a pandemic and give progressives this outsider/election ruiner label. So even if he gains nothing by dropping out, he at least hopefully makes life easier for the next progressive generation.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6943 on: March 27, 2020, 12:28:17 AM »
so is the thing about Biden allegedly finger raping some lady nbd?

What?

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6944 on: March 27, 2020, 12:38:44 AM »
so is the thing about Biden allegedly finger raping some lady nbd?

What?

Edit: Reade said that Biden also told her something after the alleged assault that she initially didn’t want to share because “it’s the thing that stays in my head over and over.” But after some pressing from Halper, Reade decided to share:
 
“He took his finger. He just like pointed at me and said you’re nothing to me.”
It’s hard to find any articles on it that aren’t from questionable publications. Katie Halper did the interview with her.

Here’s a video from The Rising (which I like).

[youtube] https://youtu.be/P4A0SM3wOSw[/youtube]

Here is the full interview
https://soundcloud.com/katie-halper/joe-bidens-accuser-finally-tells-her-full-story
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 12:51:10 AM by nicname »
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6945 on: March 27, 2020, 12:39:41 AM »
i try to avoid infecting my brain with populism.

Yeah, you are clearly incentivized by the status quo maintaining its grip on our economy and society, and that's fine. I don't know why you're acting as if the current state of the democratic party and progressivism are anything close to the same thing. Nothings more dishonest than moderates running around acting like progressives because you are acutely aware that the party of the civil rights act is dead, and you know the stigma that lies with that. Y'all have Americans voting against their own interests, wear that as a well paid for badge of honor.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6946 on: March 27, 2020, 12:51:40 AM »
they are acting like Bernie is an insurgent who wants to destroy the party.

https://twitter.com/berniesanders/status/1231021453270769664

yeah this was a really dumb moment for Bernie. He could erase most of the ill will from things like this that by going all in with Biden/against Trump.

What are you asking here? They aren't philosophically close. The issue that Bernie holds most important they are miles apart on. Most progressives and his supporters feel like neo-liberalism is a poor alternative to conservatism, some feel even worse about it. Bernie and the progressives have absolutely nothing to gain by simply going in for Biden against trump. Why? That would render everything he's done useless. It isn't like we don't have history of this playing out already, he's not stupid. He moved aside for Hillary and did more events for her than she did for Obama, it got him and the progressives absolutely nothing. The platform didn't move left at the convention, no progressives got house or senate seats in '16, and the establishment democrats still blame him for Hillary losing.

I get the fear of another four years of Trump, that's what this song and dance is all about. Acting as if he has anything to gain by moving aside is dishonest. The Democrats made this bed, it isn't his job to clean it up for them, especially given he's an independent. Quid pro quo.

I honestly don't disagree with anything you're saying (other than I think the party HAS shifted to the left since 2016). But while there isn't much to gain politically in 2020 by dropping out, he can do 2024 and beyond progressive candidates a lot of harm if he's constantly attacking the presumptive nominee during a pandemic and give progressives this outsider/election ruiner label. So even if he gains nothing by dropping out, he at least hopefully makes life easier for the next progressive generation.

You're probably correct that the party has moved left but that tree hasn't borne any fruit. There are no progressives other than Warren anywhere close to party leadership and Pelosi has been publicly hostile at times. I think it would be easier for Bernie to step aside and progressives to move with the party of the wounds of '16 weren't so fresh. Also what happened with the moderate candidates and their COLUSION against Bernie and Liz the day before Super Tuesday let them know exactly where they sit with the party. The establishment dems say that they need and want the progressives but every action they have taken, since selecting Tom Perez over Keith Ellison for the party chair, says otherwise.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6947 on: March 27, 2020, 12:55:17 AM »
Also what happened with the moderate candidates and their COLUSION against Bernie and Liz the day before Super Tuesday let them know exactly where they sit with the party.

the voters let them know where they sit with the party.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6948 on: March 27, 2020, 01:01:22 AM »
Yes. That's why we have Mighty Joe Biden.

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Re: 2020 presidential candidate 'crats
« Reply #6949 on: March 27, 2020, 01:06:57 AM »
Also what happened with the moderate candidates and their COLUSION against Bernie and Liz the day before Super Tuesday let them know exactly where they sit with the party.

the voters let them know where they sit with the party.

Nothing to do with the point, but you do you.