LHC Bill Snyder saved Kansas State University

[kso_FAN]

My God, what in the helll has this place become?!  Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets?  This is just pathetic.

I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.

I pretty much agree. If you're an "8 win program" your going to have 10 win and 6 win seasons. And we have those.

So basically 2.0 then.

[michigancat]

My God, what in the helll has this place become?!  Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets?  This is just pathetic.

I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.

I pretty much agree. If you're an "8 win program" your going to have 10 win and 6 win seasons. And we have those.

So basically 2.0 then.

Yeah

[LickNeckey]

My God, what in the helll has this place become?!  Yay for 7-5/8-4 seasons. Do you seriously think that we wouldn't be much better with the talent OU gets?  This is just pathetic.

I'm not 100% sure what you're trying you say here, but I'm perfectly happy being an 8 win program. There are a lot more Iowa States, Texas Techs, and Pitts of the college football world than K-States, Texas A&MS, and Utahs.

Typical KSU loser mentality.  Happy with 8-4 and a bunch of 2-3 star recruits.  We have good facilities and Manhattan is a real nice place and we get 50,000 fans to come to our games!  No reason we shouldn't be signing 4-5 star players and expecting to play for the NC every year.  It's your loser mentality that keeps this program down.

 

[ChiComCat]

You couldn't find 5 people on this board who are "ok with the current status of the program" so i have no idea what you are talking about.   I enjoy discussing ways we can improve (usually with the other 3-4 reasonable people in this place).  I blasted our play calling most of the year.  The recruiting argument gets settled at the end of every year when we routinely have more than our share of players recognized for postseason accolades.  That argument is old, tired and absurd.  It should go away.

When we've been at our best (over 9 wins), it's usually been because of some elite level talent in the system.  Nobody legitimately expects us to recruit against elite schools but I'd like to see us recruit in top 45 pretty consistently.

[Shooter Jones]

Going by star ratings, what is the recruiting ceiling for K-State? How many 4-5 star players and what recruiting class ranking should we be shooting for? I'm interested in what people think recruiting at K-State should look like.

I don't really want to get into a stars/hearts argument. But more often than not, stars are accurate with 4*'s and almost always with 5*'s. You need to identify the most talented 3 stars which I think this staff does, 4's and 5's are already identified.

In saying that, since the planned/built Vanier 2.0 started, K-State has averaged around 70th-ish ranked recruiting classes (currently 81st with this class), with basically 1 4* each year. I bring that up because I think that facility moved us up to the middle of P5 in facilities at minimum, and I think we've been middle of P5 in success winning recently (but haven't been crazy successful in the lifetime of these recruits), regional airport, etc. I believe the recruiting disadvantages talking point is crap now.

So in a world where not all 3*'s are created equal, I think that means K-State could/should have top 40-50 (hell, a year with a couple more surprise 4*'s, top 25-30!) ranked classes every year. What that means as far as numbers of 4*/5* guys, I don't know, but there is absolutely no reason K-State can't be around the bottom part of the middle of P5's every year and higher with others. Anything below 65th nationally is absolutely unacceptable.

FWIW, I think Venzy can bring in top 30-40 classes every year.

[cfbandyman]

You couldn't find 5 people on this board who are "ok with the current status of the program" so i have no idea what you are talking about.   I enjoy discussing ways we can improve (usually with the other 3-4 reasonable people in this place).  I blasted our play calling most of the year.  The recruiting argument gets settled at the end of every year when we routinely have more than our share of players recognized for postseason accolades.  That argument is old, tired and absurd.  It should go away.

I am not thrilled with it, but if we can keep turning in 8-4 seasons, those 9, 10, 11 wins seasons come around a lot more. I'd rather prove we can be solid consistent winners, than try and reach for something we are not yet. Most schools make that mistake and end up hiring a mistake and it restarts the clock on them.

i especially want this want Bill is gone, nothing will change the perception of this program more than having not LHC Bill Snyder be the one turning in 8-4 seasons. It'll show everyone we aren't sliding into obscurity, and then you can hire a more risk/reward type coach that could make us elite for like 5 seasons before being hired away to Bama/Clemson/etc

We also get rather decent talent, er just need to get a few more, we're not hauling in top 30s like ever.

[Whisker Biscuit]

Going by star ratings, what is the recruiting ceiling for K-State? How many 4-5 star players and what recruiting class ranking should we be shooting for? I'm interested in what people think recruiting at K-State should look like.

I don't really want to get into a stars/hearts argument. But more often than not, stars are accurate with 4*'s and almost always with 5*'s. You need to identify the most talented 3 stars which I think this staff does, 4's and 5's are already identified.

In saying that, since the planned/built Vanier 2.0 started, K-State has averaged around 70th-ish ranked recruiting classes (currently 81st with this class), with basically 1 4* each year. I bring that up because I think that facility moved us up to the middle of P5 in facilities at minimum, and I think we've been middle of P5 in success winning recently (but haven't been crazy successful in the lifetime of these recruits), regional airport, etc. I believe the recruiting disadvantages talking point is crap now.

So in a world where not all 3*'s are created equal, I think that means K-State could/should have top 40-50 (hell, a year with a couple more surprise 4*'s, top 25-30!) ranked classes every year. What that means as far as numbers of 4*/5* guys, I don't know, but there is absolutely no reason K-State can't be around the bottom part of the middle of P5's every year and higher with others. Anything below 65th nationally is absolutely unacceptable.

FWIW, I think Venzy can bring in top 30-40 classes every year.

Facilities!   

[Joker]

Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...

Most interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision.  A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411a

“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.html

The majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”

http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/

[Whisker Biscuit]

Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...

Most interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision.  A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411a

“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.html

The majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”

http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/

Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit:  CHECK!

[sonofdaxjones]

Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...

Most interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision.  A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411a

“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.html

The majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”

http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/

Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit:  CHECK!

   Pro Tip:  Most recruits have more than one reason for picking a school.

[Whisker Biscuit]

Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...

Most interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision.  A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411a

“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.html

The majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”

http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/

Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit:  CHECK!

   Pro Tip:  Most recruits have more than one reason for picking a school.

WHAT??!???!?????!!!????   You mean like proximity to their home/family?  I don't get it.  Makes no sense why Texas, FSU, Bama, Ohio State, etc. would have any factors that might lead to better recruiting.  WE ARE KSTATE!!  WE HAVE NICE FACILITIES!!  WE SHOULD SIGN 4 AND 5 STAR TALENT!!  5 PLAYERS ON THE ALL BIG 12 TEAM IS NOT ENOUGH!!  I DEMAND MORE TALENT!! I WANT TO WIN THE STAR WARS!!! (timely pun

[sonofdaxjones]

Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...

Most interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision.  A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411a

“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.html

The majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”

http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/

Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit:  CHECK!

   Pro Tip:  Most recruits have more than one reason for picking a school.

WHAT??!???!?????!!!????   You mean like proximity to their home/family?  I don't get it.  Makes no sense why Texas, FSU, Bama, Ohio State, etc. would have any factors that might lead to better recruiting.  WE ARE KSTATE!!  WE HAVE NICE FACILITIES!!  WE SHOULD SIGN 4 AND 5 STAR TALENT!!  5 PLAYERS ON THE ALL BIG 12 TEAM IS NOT ENOUGH!!  I DEMAND MORE TALENT!! I WANT TO WIN THE STAR WARS!!! (timely pun

So again, we underachieved, then?

.592 winning percentage over 3 seasons , so I guess the lazy ass recruiting is working.

[purplehaze]

Keep poking fun at those absurd facilities, Whisker...

Most interesting about the study's findings, however, is the important role that a campus' facilities play to a recruit's decision.  A recruit's opinion of a team's playing facilities ranked as the fourth most important factor, while campus living facilities and team facilities ranked sixth and eighth, respectively.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliciajessop/2012/12/14/the-surprising-factors-driving-college-football-recruits-decision/#54b350e8411a

“This is going to help us out tremendously,” Braet said. “With the new facility and what all we have now, it should help us in recruiting a great deal. It has put us now where we should be, with our facilities matching the way our team plays. I really think this is going to take us to the next level.”

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article31125119.html

The majority of them are going to ask about your facilities,” Levine said. “Families want to know what kind of venues they’ll be sitting in watching their child play for four or five years. The young men we recruit naturally wanna to see the locker room, see the stadium, see the field.”

http://thedailycougar.com/2014/11/19/campus-facilities-impact-recruiting/

Fourth (and Eighth) most important factor to a recruit:  CHECK!

   Pro Tip:  Most recruits have more than one reason for picking a school.

WHAT??!???!?????!!!????   You mean like proximity to their home/family?  I don't get it.  Makes no sense why Texas, FSU, Bama, Ohio State, etc. would have any factors that might lead to better recruiting.  WE ARE KSTATE!!  WE HAVE NICE FACILITIES!!  WE SHOULD SIGN 4 AND 5 STAR TALENT!!  5 PLAYERS ON THE ALL BIG 12 TEAM IS NOT ENOUGH!!  I DEMAND MORE TALENT!! I WANT TO WIN THE STAR WARS!!! (timely pun

So again, we underachieved, then?

.592 winning percentage over 3 seasons , so I guess the lazy ass recruiting is working.

Bill's overall winning % is .655 so really not that far off, .631 in pt 2, .666 in pt 1. Ya we are not doing as well as we should, especially this year, but we are by no means doing awful. I don't think talent is the main reason we lost close games the last 2 years, our team talent is comparable to 2011, play-calling and game management have been "worse" in comparison to our talent imo.

[michigancat]

I think Bill's 93 record on for 1.0 is a better comparison for 1.0 vs. 2.0. I will not do the math on this.

[pissclams]

klein makes the 11 vs 17 comparo probably not a good one to make

[CHONGS]

I think Bill's 93 record on for 1.0 is a better comparison for 1.0 vs. 2.0. I will not do the math on this.

Against P5 competition:
Bill 1.0 -> 58.5%
Bill 1.0 (1993-2005) -> 66.7%
Bill 2.0 -> 57.0%

[michigancat]

I think Bill's 93 record on for 1.0 is a better comparison for 1.0 vs. 2.0. I will not do the math on this.

Against P5 competition:
Bill 1.0 -> 58.5%
Bill 1.0 (1993-2005) -> 66.7%
Bill 2.0 -> 57.0%

yeah still surprisingly close. just like 1 win/year

[Steffy08]

I think Bill's 93 record on for 1.0 is a better comparison for 1.0 vs. 2.0. I will not do the math on this.

Against P5 competition:
Bill 1.0 -> 58.5%
Bill 1.0 (1993-2005) -> 66.7%
Bill 2.0 -> 57.0%

We generally had better assistant coaches in 1.0, and we were ahead of the curve in seeing the value of JUCO players.

[CHONGS]

There is a big difference between 1.0 and 2.0 however when it comes to dominating opponents.



Plotted here is the cumulative point differential. 

[CHONGS]

Another view:

(avg margin of victory over P5 team)

Finally:

(win % against P5 teams)

[Whisker Biscuit]

We certainly stumbled in a few games this year...games we certainly should have won.  You can attribute it to whatever you want, but the lazy thing is to say talent.  The fact of the matter is that we had more talent than normal, we just underperformed at some crucial times that cost us games.  Honestly though we'd still be having this stupid "recruiting" and "bill needs to retire" conversation had we won 2 and probably even 3 more games this year.  And that's what irritates me.  We had a good year, not a great year and we were competitive in all but one game. 

[everyone shut up]

Jesus, no one would be bitching if we won 10 games this season.

[Whisker Biscuit]

Jesus, no one would be bitching if we won 10 games this season.

That's funny.  I assume you mean until signing day?

[Joker]

We certainly stumbled in a few games this year...games we certainly should have won.  You can attribute it to whatever you want, but the lazy thing is to say talent.  The fact of the matter is that we had more talent than normal, we just underperformed at some crucial times that cost us games.  Honestly though we'd still be having this stupid "recruiting" and "bill needs to retire" conversation had we won 2 and probably even 3 more games this year.  And that's what irritates me.  We had a good year, not a great year and we were competitive in all but one game.

This whole "recruiting" conversation stemmed from you having an issue with the statement that Brent Venables is a better recruiter than Sean Snyder.

Good grief, man.

[ChiComCat]

I got a question for Whisker: If it’s not recruiting and you’re convinced Snyder is on par with Saban and Meyer, why aren’t we winning more games?