LHC Bill Snyder saved Kansas State University

[Ihaveteeth]

So you're saying they should just hire their D Coordinator to take over as coach and call it a day? Sounds like a lazy way to do it, Miz.

Whose D coordinator?  I don't know who a great hire would be.  At this point, it should probably either be Sean or there needs to be some unambiguous declaration that he won't be in consideration.  I'm not aware of a legacy hire ever working out, but there's been a pretty small sample size.

I've had a front row seat for a few poorly managed coaching hires made amidst stupid circumstances of our own making so I recognize one when I see it.  Venables seems like the best opportunity to land a big fish.  Beyond that, I think he entire candidate pool is going to be a bunch of names that everyone will have to google.  Either way, 8 win seasons on average from whomever is hired should not be considered a disappointment.

[michigancat]

There are literally thousands of football coaches in this country. Kansas State is one of the best 50 programs in all of college football, the thought that any coach couldn't get someone wanting to prove themselves on the highest stage is one of the dumbest taking points that comes from this fan base. It defies common sense but eventually it will come up in every conversation.

You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?

KSU could absolutely get decent assistants but you seem to be acting like the coach wouldn't be a factor.

The coach is a factor for sure, but my pushback is on the notion that Sean wouldn't be able to find anyone, that's silly. Whomever the coach is eventually going to be will have a hodgepodge of guys currently on staff and other guys looking for a change, more money, or to prove themselves. That's the same for us, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc. I picked Washington State at random to check out their coaching staff, that's an average program with an established coach. Their defensive coordinator was the safeties coach at Missouri before Leach hired him. Wisconsin's d coordinator was in the NFL in 2015. David Beatty got Doug Mecham, why? Dude needed a job.

This profession is filled with dudes on the grind ,that none of us have heard of, waiting for their big break, we'll be fine just like every other P5.school.

I'm not arguing any of that, but I don't think every coach I haven't heard of is equal.  I for sure think Sean would be able to find unknown coaches on the grind, but I think he would be worse than most P5 head coaches at finding and hiring the best due to his lack of experience and connections and general unknowns.

[Ihaveteeth]

i mean, we have one of the top defensive coordinators in the country negotiate a line into his current contract essentially begging to be our head coach, but then again, i'm sure every P5 school has suitors like that.

If he wants the job, you'd be crazy to not hire him.  Still, it needs to be done in a way that minimizes the backlash from the pro-Sean camp and 8 win seasons can't be looked at as underachieving.

[Dr Rick Daris]

We just had a West Virginia fan come in here and talk to us like we're Marshall, and pete rolled over like a hapless turtle. What is going on here?

I'm not a WV fan...just started posting from the account that was made in that thread for the heck of it.

I don't believe for a second that you randomly just started posting in that thread. so now you are now a west virginian and a known liar. not a good look. care to argue either?

Not really.  I posted on here years ago but forgot my login (it was something like Saul good EMAW IIRC).  Went down a rabbit hole a while back and was reading through that thread, so there you go.  Really interesting story that I hope was as interesting to read as it was to type... FTR, I'm a Mizzou fan, but KSU is my adopted Big 12 team.
 

in the nicest way possible (and I really mean that), none of what you just said is true. you are a west Virginia alum and that's ok, but I wish you would stop lying about it. anyway welcome back to our message board. I'd love for you to keep posting here.

[DQ12]

i mean, we have one of the top defensive coordinators in the country negotiate a line into his current contract essentially begging to be our head coach, but then again, i'm sure every P5 school has suitors like that.

If he wants the job, you'd be crazy to not hire him.  Still, it needs to be done in a way that minimizes the backlash from the pro-Sean camp and 8 win seasons can't be looked at as underachieving.

Nobody here views 8 win seasons as some horrible thing.  This year, we had higher expectations due to who we had returning, and the same will be true for next year too.  In years like 2015 and 2016, we would've been tickled to win 8 games.

[MakeItRain]

We just had a West Virginia fan come in here and talk to us like we're Marshall, and pete rolled over like a hapless turtle. What is going on here?

I'm not a WV fan...just started posting from the account that was made in that thread for the heck of it.

I don't believe for a second that you randomly just started posting in that thread. so now you are now a west virginian and a known liar. not a good look. care to argue either?

Not really.  I posted on here years ago but forgot my login (it was something like Saul good EMAW IIRC).  Went down a rabbit hole a while back and was reading through that thread, so there you go.  Really interesting story that I hope was as interesting to read as it was to type... FTR, I'm a Mizzou fan, but KSU is my adopted Big 12 team.

I don't think the KSU job is appealing as far as P-5 jobs go at the moment due to several different factors.  Some of those are temporary, and others are permanent.  It has no natural recruiting advantages.  It's in the least attractive P-5 conference.  Following a legend is bad enough to begin with, but this one is getting pushed out by half the fan base after winning 16 or 17 games the past 2 seasons. 

Coaches at similar schools who have that type of success expect raises and job offers from bigger schools.  Combine that with the fact that a sizable portion of the fan base will be against you from the start simply because your last name isn't Snyder, and it makes for a pretty unattractive job.  I don't feel like anything I'm saying here is particularly controversial. 

You may be able to land a coach that goes on to be successful, but you'll have to find someone under the radar...sort of how Snyder recruits.  Even then, finding someone who averages 8 wins a season would be a home run hire.

I don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.

I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.

And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.

Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.

Mizzou, my god

[renocat]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/its-clear-now-more-than-ever-bill-snyder-is-holding-kansas-state-hostage/
Is he?

[MakeItRain]

I want to go back to the fact that I said we were a top 50 job and a Mizzou, MIZZOU, fan said that was too high. On top of that an EMAW cosigned that horseshit. I must be hallucinating.

[MakeItRain]

There are literally thousands of football coaches in this country. Kansas State is one of the best 50 programs in all of college football, the thought that any coach couldn't get someone wanting to prove themselves on the highest stage is one of the dumbest taking points that comes from this fan base. It defies common sense but eventually it will come up in every conversation.

You'd think people here would be cogent enough to remember the unproven but fantastic staff here last time there was a coaching change. How could anyone put together a staff as good as the legendary Ron Prince?

KSU could absolutely get decent assistants but you seem to be acting like the coach wouldn't be a factor.

The coach is a factor for sure, but my pushback is on the notion that Sean wouldn't be able to find anyone, that's silly. Whomever the coach is eventually going to be will have a hodgepodge of guys currently on staff and other guys looking for a change, more money, or to prove themselves. That's the same for us, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Tennessee, etc. I picked Washington State at random to check out their coaching staff, that's an average program with an established coach. Their defensive coordinator was the safeties coach at Missouri before Leach hired him. Wisconsin's d coordinator was in the NFL in 2015. David Beatty got Doug Mecham, why? Dude needed a job.

This profession is filled with dudes on the grind ,that none of us have heard of, waiting for their big break, we'll be fine just like every other P5.school.

I'm not arguing any of that, but I don't think every coach I haven't heard of is equal.  I for sure think Sean would be able to find unknown coaches on the grind, but I think he would be worse than most P5 head coaches at finding and hiring the best due to his lack of experience and connections and general unknowns.

Yeah, you're probably right.

[Ihaveteeth]

I want to go back to the fact that I said we were a top 50 job and a Mizzou, MIZZOU, fan said that was too high. On top of that an EMAW cosigned that horseshit. I must be hallucinating.

Who do you think will be on the short list then?

[manpow5]

I want to go back to the fact that I said we were a top 50 job and a Mizzou, MIZZOU, fan said that was too high. On top of that an EMAW cosigned that horseshit. I must be hallucinating.

Who do you think will be on the short list then?

1. Sean
2. Someone with the last name Snyder
3. Bill's corpse strung up like Weekend at Bernies style

[DQ12]

I want to go back to the fact that I said we were a top 50 job and a Mizzou, MIZZOU, fan said that was too high. On top of that an EMAW cosigned that horseshit. I must be hallucinating.

Who do you think will be on the short list then?

Probably not Memphis' DC.

[Ihaveteeth]

I don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.

I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.

And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.

Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.

Mizzou, my god

Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator.  It was a clown show, and I said as much previously.  It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky.  There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity.  I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.

I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go.  LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title.  Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title.  Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed.  aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago.  Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires.  If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this.  The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves.  I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire.  Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.

Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc.  I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.

[star seed 7]

Missouri is so irrelevant that I honestly don't even know who their coach is and I'm loling pretty hard that apparently they hired memphis' DC lol

[cfbandyman]

I don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.

I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.

And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.

Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.

Mizzou, my god

Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator.  It was a clown show, and I said as much previously.  It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky.  There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity.  I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.

I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go.  LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title.  Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title.  Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed.  aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago.  Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires.  If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this.  The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves.  I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire.  Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.

Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc.  I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.

I don't know why you included these schools. These schools fall in 1 of 2 categories: The "Your 9/10 win seasons aren't good enough for us" (Nubbs w/ Solich and Pelini, tOSU with oscar/Cooper) or went with the wrong guy(s) for a few years and fell flat on our faces (ND and Michigan) and then got right back to being fine. I don't think it's a legend following problems as much as fans get messed up expectations, or they hire literally the wrong guy.

[8manpick]

Is Ihaveteeth the worst development on this board in all of 2017?
 

[Ihaveteeth]

You've convinced me.  KSU should pull a Tennessee, refuse anyone other than a splash hire, and then run him out of town if he fails by only winning 8 games a year.  Do any of you even understand what you're arguing, or are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?

I didn't realize it would be so controversial to suggest that you would be well served to settle the Sean Snyder situation ASAP, hire Venables if possible, and feel pretty good if your next coach averages 8 wins a year.

[DQ12]

You've convinced me.  KSU should pull a Tennessee, refuse anyone other than a splash hire, and then run him out of town if he fails by only winning 8 games a year.  Do any of you even understand what you're arguing, or are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?

I didn't realize it would be so controversial to suggest that you would be well served to settle the Sean Snyder situation ASAP, hire Venables if possible, and feel pretty good if your next coach averages 8 wins a year.

For pete's sake.  You called our HC job the worst in the P5 and didn't expect any pushback?  That's not only untrue, but it's deliberately insulting.

For the record, everyone on earth agrees with the portion in bold.

[WillieWatanabe]

i kinda like this Ihateteeth guy and hope he keeps posting. Don't agree with much he's saying but that's beside the point.

[Ihaveteeth]

You've convinced me.  KSU should pull a Tennessee, refuse anyone other than a splash hire, and then run him out of town if he fails by only winning 8 games a year.  Do any of you even understand what you're arguing, or are you just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing?

I didn't realize it would be so controversial to suggest that you would be well served to settle the Sean Snyder situation ASAP, hire Venables if possible, and feel pretty good if your next coach averages 8 wins a year.

For pete's sake.  You called our HC job the worst in the P5 and didn't expect any pushback?  That's not only untrue, but it's deliberately insulting.

For the record, everyone on earth agrees with the portion in bold.

That's not what I said.  It's not the worst job in P5, but it's currently the least attractive due to the circumstances surrounding the Snyders.  The administration has done a very poor job of handling this if they don't intend to hire Sean.  There are going to be serious hard feelings unless something is done to put the situation to rest ASAP.  The last thing the program needs is to have the Snyder family and their supporters pissed off over the way they were treated on the way out.  As a Mizzou fan, I've watched something similar with Norm Stewart haunt the program for decades.

[Ihaveteeth]

I don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.

I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.

And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.

Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.

Mizzou, my god

Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator.  It was a clown show, and I said as much previously.  It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky.  There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity.  I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.

I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go.  LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title.  Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title.  Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed.  aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago.  Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires.  If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this.  The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves.  I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire.  Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.

Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc.  I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.

I don't know why you included these schools. These schools fall in 1 of 2 categories: The "Your 9/10 win seasons aren't good enough for us" (Nubbs w/ Solich and Pelini, tOSU with oscar/Cooper) or went with the wrong guy(s) for a few years and fell flat on our faces (ND and Michigan) and then got right back to being fine. I don't think it's a legend following problems as much as fans get messed up expectations, or they hire literally the wrong guy.

That's exactly my point.  When you follow a legend and you suck, you get fired...and if you do really well, you still get fired.

[ChiComCat]

The least attractive job in P5 is Kansas and that is not particularly close.  Terrible facilities, very little history of success, and it hardly pays what most D1 coordinators make.

Also, Herman was a great get for UT.  LSU wanted him and he clearly preferred the UT gig.  SEC west hires of Orgeron and Morris in the past couple of years are hardly impressive.  They both could work out but neither are big names.  Of course Jimbo was a good get.  The SEC east coach hires are pretty lol-worthy.  Georgia is looking good, Florida finally made a hire that seems capable, and the next best coach maybe the result of the Tennessee dumpster fire.

Your "following a legend" stats of teams that have won National Championships in the past 20 years and one that thinks it has don't mean a whole lot.  Of course there are some additional challenges, but K-State is hardly Conference Championship or bust.

[DQ12]

Yeah for whatever reason, ihaveteeth think we're thumbing our noses at 8 win seasons.  We're not.

[cat.branchman]

Ron Prince would have been just fine had he not been a swinger.

If he keeps his original staff, Franklin/morris we'd have been fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't forget Scott Frost.

[cfbandyman]

I don't know who we'll eventually hire but I do know that we'll do better than Memphis' defensive coordinator.

I'm not sure what the natural recruiting advantages we don't have but I'm guessing schools outside of California and a couple of southern states have the same disadvantages.

And GTFOOMF with being in the Big 12 as a disadvantage to hiring a good coach. Look at the recent hires in the SEC and the Big 12 and the coaching advantages aren't even close. The second worst job in the Big 12 hired one of the most sought after names on last year's carousel. The SEC only hires within itself or coordinators from the AAC.

Also only a low confidence loser would be afraid to follow LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder, or any other man.

Mizzou, my god

Mizzou hired Mizzou's defensive coordinator.  It was a clown show, and I said as much previously.  It may wind up working out, but if it does then it's because we got lucky.  There was certainly no discernible strategy other than to step on our own dicks at every opportunity.  I wouldn't recommend following that blueprint.

I don't know what you're getting at as far as the SEC hires go.  LSU hired the Oklahoma State coach and won a national title.  Auburn hired the Iowa State head coach and won a national title.  Arkansas hired a coach who had been to three straight Rose Bowls and failed.  aTm just hired the Florida State head coach who had just won a national title a few years ago.  Oklahoma just promoted a coordinator, and Texas has become a revolving door of mid major hires.  If Matt Rhule is your gold standard, I really don't know where you're going with this.  The SEC has made plenty of terrible hires, but there have been plenty of power moves.  I honestly can't think of a Big 12 team ever making a splash hire.  Maybe it's happened and I just don't remember.

Following legends hasn't worked at USC, Nebraska, Florida, Ohio State, Tennessee, Notre Dame, Michigan, etc.  I don't know that coaches will be afraid of it per se, but it's a negative to be sure.

I don't know why you included these schools. These schools fall in 1 of 2 categories: The "Your 9/10 win seasons aren't good enough for us" (Nubbs w/ Solich and Pelini, tOSU with oscar/Cooper) or went with the wrong guy(s) for a few years and fell flat on our faces (ND and Michigan) and then got right back to being fine. I don't think it's a legend following problems as much as fans get messed up expectations, or they hire literally the wrong guy.

That's exactly my point.  When you follow a legend and you suck, you get fired...and if you do really well, you still get fired.

So like, it doesn't matter anyways? You suck you'd be fired regardless of who you follow, and if you are too stupid to not be happy with 9/10 seasons, you clearly don't pay attention to how CFB in the long run works.