Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)

[Phil Titola]

Taking all this at your word even though the house plan isn't going to be anywhere close to the final plan...and personally I'd say it's not the upper middle class that needs the tax break so they can send Jr to baseball traveling teams...it's the lower side of the middle class that needs the help to you know...buy clothes.

The Senate plan is actually more generous for me. Didn't run it for lower incomes. It sounds to me like you're expecting this reform to be less about cutting taxes and more about redistributing cash to folks who aren't paying much, if any, FIT to begin with. And that's understandable for a liberal, but this is supposed to be a tax cut - not another welfare program. Let's just stop with the "middle class aren't getting a tax cut" hogwash. This is yuuuuuge for most of the middle class.

so it's just a tax cut not redistribution of cash if the higher incomes get the break?  okay.

this conversations would probably go further if you didn't insist on labeling everybody's political party to discount their opinion.

[Dugout DickStone]

How about owners of LLCs in the service field?

The pass-thru taxation is currently under discussion. It vertainly won't be tax free like what was attempted in KS. Question is how it will compare to corporate and personal rates.

I'll just grab my ankles real quick then

[star seed 7]

It's redistribution to the national debt

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Taking all this at your word even though the house plan isn't going to be anywhere close to the final plan...and personally I'd say it's not the upper middle class that needs the tax break so they can send Jr to baseball traveling teams...it's the lower side of the middle class that needs the help to you know...buy clothes.

The Senate plan is actually more generous for me. Didn't run it for lower incomes. It sounds to me like you're expecting this reform to be less about cutting taxes and more about redistributing cash to folks who aren't paying much, if any, FIT to begin with. And that's understandable for a liberal, but this is supposed to be a tax cut - not another welfare program. Let's just stop with the "middle class aren't getting a tax cut" hogwash. This is yuuuuuge for most of the middle class.

so it's just a tax cut not redistribution of cash if the higher incomes get the break?  okay.

this conversations would probably go further if you didn't insist on labeling everybody's political party to discount their opinion.

Yes. I view allowing people to keep more of their own money as different from giving a "refund" to someone who already didn't owe any. But that's just me. I know liberal brains work differently. It's adorable.

[chum1]

https://twitter.com/naomirwolf/status/934849382343684096

[steve dave]

KSU-D, this thing specifically fucks you and (more importantly at least to me) your offspring. I know you're huge into the my team v. your team stuff but this is not a good idea for you personally and (don't get offended) you are by far the least altruistic person on this message board.

[Dugout DickStone]

It Fs me super hard too right?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

KSU-D, this thing specifically fucks you and (more importantly at least to me) your offspring. I know you're huge into the my team v. your team stuff but this is not a good idea for you personally and (don't get offended) you are by far the least altruistic person on this message board.

So I've actually done the math, and I do awesome. Thanks.

[IPA4Me]

It Fs me super hard too right?

Not sure how it ended but the proposed plan favored pass through types.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-tax-bill-could-help-the-self-employed/

[cfbandyman]

KSU-D, this thing specifically fucks you and (more importantly at least to me) your offspring. I know you're huge into the my team v. your team stuff but this is not a good idea for you personally and (don't get offended) you are by far the least altruistic person on this message board.

He would sell the US if he profits off of it, oh wait.

[Dugout DickStone]

I would take that

[gatoveintisiete]

Is this thing going to be law?

[chum1]

They're going to pass the crap out of this bill.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

KSU-D, this thing specifically fucks you and (more importantly at least to me) your offspring. I know you're huge into the my team v. your team stuff but this is not a good idea for you personally and (don't get offended) you are by far the least altruistic person on this message board.

He would sell the US if he profits off of it, oh wait.

Quick question: why are you guys being such a-holes? Just general butthurt, or a more specific envy?

[Phil Titola]

Taking all this at your word even though the house plan isn't going to be anywhere close to the final plan...and personally I'd say it's not the upper middle class that needs the tax break so they can send Jr to baseball traveling teams...it's the lower side of the middle class that needs the help to you know...buy clothes.

The Senate plan is actually more generous for me. Didn't run it for lower incomes. It sounds to me like you're expecting this reform to be less about cutting taxes and more about redistributing cash to folks who aren't paying much, if any, FIT to begin with. And that's understandable for a liberal, but this is supposed to be a tax cut - not another welfare program. Let's just stop with the "middle class aren't getting a tax cut" hogwash. This is yuuuuuge for most of the middle class.

so it's just a tax cut not redistribution of cash if the higher incomes get the break?  okay.

this conversations would probably go further if you didn't insist on labeling everybody's political party to discount their opinion.

Yes. I view allowing people to keep more of their own money as different from giving a "refund" to someone who already didn't owe any. But that's just me. I know liberal brains work differently. It's adorable.

where is anybody wanting people that pay no taxes to pay MORE no taxes?  Don't be a dumb.

[sys]

Maybe keep the estate tax and tweak the corporate rate enough to make that revenue-neutral.

eliminate the estate tax loopholes, get rid of taxes on c corps altogether and tax dividends and cap gains at the same rate as ordinary income.  pretty easy.

[steve dave]

KSU-D, this thing specifically fucks you and (more importantly at least to me) your offspring. I know you're huge into the my team v. your team stuff but this is not a good idea for you personally and (don't get offended) you are by far the least altruistic person on this message board.

He would sell the US if he profits off of it, oh wait.

Quick question: why are you guys being such a-holes? Just general butthurt, or a more specific envy?

I said not to get offended

[puniraptor]

OT THOUGHT EXPERIMENT:

what would k-s-u-w think of this IDENTICAL TAX PLAN if it were proposed by 3rd term president B. Obama and his democrat majority congress?

[Kat Kid]

We max out our childcare reimbursement benefit every year so there goes like $5000.

[Kat Kid]

I mean, could this tax bill be any more specifically designed to hurt middle class-upper middle class families?

[chum1]

https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/936007520665169921

[chum1]

$1.5 trillion NBD

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I mean, could this tax bill be any more specifically designed to hurt middle class-upper middle class families?

Give me a scenario where this hurts them. AGI, number of dependent kids, and current deductions and credits that are changing.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Taking all this at your word even though the house plan isn't going to be anywhere close to the final plan...and personally I'd say it's not the upper middle class that needs the tax break so they can send Jr to baseball traveling teams...it's the lower side of the middle class that needs the help to you know...buy clothes.

The Senate plan is actually more generous for me. Didn't run it for lower incomes.

I re-ran the numbers for the scenarios I gave above using the Senate proposal. The only significant differences between House and Senate for purposes of my scenarios are (1) Senate provides a slightly larger CTC of $2,000, and (2) Senate's tax brackets are less progressive than the House.

For every scenario (100k AGI, 80k AGI, and 60k AGI, 3 kids versus 1 kid), the Senate tax cut is smaller by about 1/3. This is because, even though the Senate provides a larger CTC, the brackets are less progressive. By contrast, the Senate plan provides a more generous cut at higher AGIs.

Bracket comparisons for House and Senate are here: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/how-the-senate-and-house-tax-brackets-compare.html This is the only part of my math I didn't show but it's not hard to calculate.

[Phil Titola]

Whatcha going to with all your extra money? Go hire an extra gardener? The poors need your trickle down you know.