Author Topic: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)  (Read 137677 times)

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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #525 on: November 28, 2017, 06:11:47 PM »
I don't want to hijack this into another Obamacare thread, but the sad truth is that because the liberals rammed Obamacare through, and because the GOP is too spineless/corrupt/incompetent to pass repeal and replace legislation, the implosion of Obamacare is going to be a very messy process. Maybe it will lead to single payer. Maybe it will lead to a more free market oriented healthcare system. And maybe that will depend upon the leaders we elect in the next few cycles.

Republicans didn't repeal and replace because it was their baby and they were pissed the democrats did it. How hard is it to understand why they were/are so rough ridin' pissed off. They really don't have anything to replace it with because it was their goddamn plan all along.

Yeah I hear that claim all the time, and even left-leaning Politifact concedes it is mostly bullshit. Feel free to cherry pick if you want, but the plan from 93 was different in multiple aspects and was criticized by many conservatives even then.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 06:33:26 PM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #526 on: November 28, 2017, 06:41:46 PM »
So cliffnotes are taxes gonna be a giant CF


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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #527 on: November 28, 2017, 07:03:59 PM »
So cliffnotes are taxes gonna be a giant CF

Biggest impacts for individuals:
1. Tax brackets will be revised (and maybe consolidated) to result in lower marginal rate for most people.
2. You lose state and local income tax deduction and mortgage interest deduction, but most Kansans will come out ahead because the standard deduction will be doubled. Far fewer people will need to bother itemizing.
3. You lose your personal exemption (a $4050 deduction per person in your household) but that's not a very big hit if it's just you and your wife, and if you got kids it is offset by increasing the child tax credit. Most people come out ahead.
4. No more AMT. If you don't pay AMT, you don't care.
5. Corporate taxes cut, stocks roar, retirement accounts soar.
6. Deficits increase, so congress finally reaches a bipartisan agreement on cutting spending.

5 of those 6 things will happen.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #528 on: November 28, 2017, 07:12:12 PM »
Are they lowering the rate on pass through Llcs in service fields for actual big shots?

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #529 on: November 28, 2017, 07:52:26 PM »
Don't forget skyrocketing insurance premiums
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #530 on: November 28, 2017, 07:59:56 PM »
I heard this tax plan was extremely racist and homophobic. True?
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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #531 on: November 28, 2017, 09:22:13 PM »
Yup
it’s not like I’m tired of WINNING, but dude, let me catch my breath.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #533 on: November 29, 2017, 10:12:16 AM »
I heard this tax plan was extremely racist and homophobic. True?

Sad but true. Also hearing it doesn't cut taxes for people not paying taxes. Evil.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline treysolid

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #534 on: November 29, 2017, 11:05:24 AM »

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #535 on: November 29, 2017, 11:23:13 AM »

Offline cfbandyman

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #536 on: November 29, 2017, 12:01:12 PM »
I don't want to hijack this into another Obamacare thread, but the sad truth is that because the liberals rammed Obamacare through, and because the GOP is too spineless/corrupt/incompetent to pass repeal and replace legislation, the implosion of Obamacare is going to be a very messy process. Maybe it will lead to single payer. Maybe it will lead to a more free market oriented healthcare system. And maybe that will depend upon the leaders we elect in the next few cycles.

Republicans didn't repeal and replace because it was their baby and they were pissed the democrats did it. How hard is it to understand why they were/are so rough ridin' pissed off. They really don't have anything to replace it with because it was their goddamn plan all along.

Yeah I hear that claim all the time, and even left-leaning Politifact concedes it is mostly bullshit. Feel free to cherry pick if you want, but the plan from 93 was different in multiple aspects and was criticized by many conservatives even then.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Part that, and part of what was done with Massachusetts is more the angle I was going for. And even within that it does not concede it as bullshit, just partly. More of "it goes too far" not "oh no it's totally not comparable"

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/20/romneycare-and-obamacare-can-you-tell-difference/

My point mostly stands, the reason they couldn't get it done was that there are/were a significant amount of Republicans who either wanted/endorsed, or were ok with the plan. All attempts have always been scuttled by the hard right, as was even pointed out in your link.

I don't think it's bullshit, it's a largely center right republican plan with a twist, and the pushback has always been from the crazy far right as it was in '93 and is today. The moderate Republicans, which there are plenty, have and continue to be enough to stop and of this repeal and replace nonsense. Cause either they are ok with the plan, or their updates to said plan with like rearranging chairs on the deck of the ship, so why really bother, especially when the updates the far right tries to push are always to very popular parts of the plan (expanded medicare/medicaid), and not the unpopular parks (mandate) or they package it all together and it's too poisonous of a pill to swallow.

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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #537 on: November 29, 2017, 12:26:56 PM »
I don't want to hijack this into another Obamacare thread, but the sad truth is that because the liberals rammed Obamacare through, and because the GOP is too spineless/corrupt/incompetent to pass repeal and replace legislation, the implosion of Obamacare is going to be a very messy process. Maybe it will lead to single payer. Maybe it will lead to a more free market oriented healthcare system. And maybe that will depend upon the leaders we elect in the next few cycles.

Republicans didn't repeal and replace because it was their baby and they were pissed the democrats did it. How hard is it to understand why they were/are so rough ridin' pissed off. They really don't have anything to replace it with because it was their goddamn plan all along.

Yeah I hear that claim all the time, and even left-leaning Politifact concedes it is mostly bullshit. Feel free to cherry pick if you want, but the plan from 93 was different in multiple aspects and was criticized by many conservatives even then.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/nov/15/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/

Part that, and part of what was done with Massachusetts is more the angle I was going for. And even within that it does not concede it as bullshit, just partly. More of "it goes too far" not "oh no it's totally not comparable"

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/20/romneycare-and-obamacare-can-you-tell-difference/

My point mostly stands, the reason they couldn't get it done was that there are/were a significant amount of Republicans who either wanted/endorsed, or were ok with the plan. All attempts have always been scuttled by the hard right, as was even pointed out in your link.

I don't think it's bullshit, it's a largely center right republican plan with a twist, and the pushback has always been from the crazy far right as it was in '93 and is today. The moderate Republicans, which there are plenty, have and continue to be enough to stop and of this repeal and replace nonsense. Cause either they are ok with the plan, or their updates to said plan with like rearranging chairs on the deck of the ship, so why really bother, especially when the updates the far right tries to push are always to very popular parts of the plan (expanded medicare/medicaid), and not the unpopular parks (mandate) or they package it all together and it's too poisonous of a pill to swallow.

There is a big difference between supporting a law and being concerned about electoral blowback of repealing an entitlement. But I'm really not interested in debating this because it is completely irrelevant.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #538 on: November 29, 2017, 12:38:04 PM »
CNBC: Dow soars 255 points to record as Senate gets closer to passing tax reform
The middle class is pumped on this news.

Just be honest who this is for.

I think I've been very honest about who this is for. It is going to benefit most people - some more than others. Generally speaking, the higher your income, the bigger the cut you'll receive. And that seems perfectly appropriate to me, given that I'm getting soaked on taxes and think we could stand to make the tax code a bit less progressive.

You're a liberal. You like a progressive tax code. You'd like it to be more progressive. You're entitled to that opinion. I realize this must all be very aggravating to you, but look for the silver linings. Even liberals have retirement accounts.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #539 on: November 29, 2017, 12:39:08 PM »
CNBC: Dow soars 255 points to record as Senate gets closer to passing tax reform
The middle class is pumped on this news.

Just be honest who this is for.

I think I've been very honest about who this is for. It is going to benefit most people - some more than others. Generally speaking, the higher your income, the bigger the cut you'll receive. And that seems perfectly appropriate to me, given that I'm getting soaked on taxes and think we could stand to make the tax code a bit less progressive.

You're a liberal. You like a progressive tax code. You'd like it to be more progressive. You're entitled to that opinion. I realize this must all be very aggravating to you, but look for the silver linings. Even liberals have retirement accounts.

Why tho? 

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #540 on: November 29, 2017, 12:40:05 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #541 on: November 29, 2017, 12:48:30 PM »
CNBC: Dow soars 255 points to record as Senate gets closer to passing tax reform
The middle class is pumped on this news.

Just be honest who this is for.

I think I've been very honest about who this is for. It is going to benefit most people - some more than others. Generally speaking, the higher your income, the bigger the cut you'll receive. And that seems perfectly appropriate to me, given that I'm getting soaked on taxes and think we could stand to make the tax code a bit less progressive.

You're a liberal. You like a progressive tax code. You'd like it to be more progressive. You're entitled to that opinion. I realize this must all be very aggravating to you, but look for the silver linings. Even liberals have retirement accounts.
Middle class tax cuts are not coming out of this bill according to all data so far. You want the highest paying taxpayers to pay less...fine...but anyone hiding behind this is going to help the coal miner is ridiculous.

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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #543 on: November 29, 2017, 12:56:02 PM »
CNBC: Dow soars 255 points to record as Senate gets closer to passing tax reform
The middle class is pumped on this news.

Just be honest who this is for.

I think I've been very honest about who this is for. It is going to benefit most people - some more than others. Generally speaking, the higher your income, the bigger the cut you'll receive. And that seems perfectly appropriate to me, given that I'm getting soaked on taxes and think we could stand to make the tax code a bit less progressive.

You're a liberal. You like a progressive tax code. You'd like it to be more progressive. You're entitled to that opinion. I realize this must all be very aggravating to you, but look for the silver linings. Even liberals have retirement accounts.

Why tho?

I don't think it's fair to tax people at a higher rate for being smarter and working harder. I like to reward hard work and intelligence - not tax it. This is just a fundamental liberal versus conservative difference of opinion. I don't think liberals are stupid, generally speaking, any more than conservatives. I do think that liberal and conservative brains are wired differently. So much so that liberals don't just disagree with conservatives - they actually can't even recognize conservative viewpoints.

(Liberal) Jonathon Haidt actually wrote a popular book about this subject. The Righteous Mind. He posits that there are five basic foundations of morality, but whereas conservatives tend to weigh the five foundations more equally, liberals operate on a narrower 2-channel spectrum. He has a good TED talk on this subject. Google Haidt TED.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #544 on: November 29, 2017, 12:57:41 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-29/trump-s-tax-promises-undercut-by-ceo-plans-to-reward-investors

of course they will, because that's how markets work.

Who do you think shareholders are?
They aren't the middle class.

Really? So middle class people don't have investments like college savings and retirement accounts? Just how low is your opinion of "the middle class?"
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #545 on: November 29, 2017, 01:07:49 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-29/trump-s-tax-promises-undercut-by-ceo-plans-to-reward-investors

of course they will, because that's how markets work.

Who do you think shareholders are?
They aren't the middle class.

Really? So middle class people don't have investments like college savings and retirement accounts? Just how low is your opinion of "the middle class?"
Different estimates have the share of people with retirement accounts or stocks around 40-50%, so unless you define "middle" differently, about half of the middle class doesn't.
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Offline Phil Titola

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #546 on: November 29, 2017, 01:11:33 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-29/trump-s-tax-promises-undercut-by-ceo-plans-to-reward-investors

of course they will, because that's how markets work.

Who do you think shareholders are?
They aren't the middle class.

Really? So middle class people don't have investments like college savings and retirement accounts? Just how low is your opinion of "the middle class?"
It has nothing to do with opinion. It has to do with reports of the middle class not saving squat for retirement.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #547 on: November 29, 2017, 01:28:15 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-29/trump-s-tax-promises-undercut-by-ceo-plans-to-reward-investors

of course they will, because that's how markets work.

Who do you think shareholders are?
They aren't the middle class.

Really? So middle class people don't have investments like college savings and retirement accounts? Just how low is your opinion of "the middle class?"

so your belief that this tax plan is a benefit to the middle class is based on a predicted bump in equities to benefit accounts they won't touch for decades?

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #548 on: November 29, 2017, 01:31:07 PM »
CNBC: Dow soars 255 points to record as Senate gets closer to passing tax reform
The middle class is pumped on this news.

Just be honest who this is for.

I think I've been very honest about who this is for. It is going to benefit most people - some more than others. Generally speaking, the higher your income, the bigger the cut you'll receive. And that seems perfectly appropriate to me, given that I'm getting soaked on taxes and think we could stand to make the tax code a bit less progressive.

You're a liberal. You like a progressive tax code. You'd like it to be more progressive. You're entitled to that opinion. I realize this must all be very aggravating to you, but look for the silver linings. Even liberals have retirement accounts.

Why tho?

I don't think it's fair to tax people at a higher rate for being smarter and working harder. I like to reward hard work and intelligence - not tax it. This is just a fundamental liberal versus conservative difference of opinion. I don't think liberals are stupid, generally speaking, any more than conservatives. I do think that liberal and conservative brains are wired differently. So much so that liberals don't just disagree with conservatives - they actually can't even recognize conservative viewpoints.

(Liberal) Jonathon Haidt actually wrote a popular book about this subject. The Righteous Mind. He posits that there are five basic foundations of morality, but whereas conservatives tend to weigh the five foundations more equally, liberals operate on a narrower 2-channel spectrum. He has a good TED talk on this subject. Google Haidt TED.

What if the other 3 channels are total bullshit, though?

Offline treysolid

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #549 on: November 29, 2017, 01:32:25 PM »