Author Topic: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)  (Read 137829 times)

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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #425 on: November 17, 2017, 01:39:50 PM »
I don't care about the deficit, but this tax cut will inevitably lead to major cuts to entitlements.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #426 on: November 17, 2017, 01:46:40 PM »
KK, I saw a piece by an MIT PhD student that talked about the tuition assistance and stuff you were talking about earlier. I didn't really understand it when you were explaining it but he laid it out much more plainly. Now that I understand the issue, wow, what is the point of such an absolutely devastating move? So ridiculous
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline chum1

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #427 on: November 17, 2017, 01:48:24 PM »
I don't care about the deficit, but this tax cut will inevitably lead to major cuts to entitlements.

If Republicans can't get their crap together enough to cut Obamacare, which they hate with a fiery passion, hopefully they won't be able to for Medicare or Social Security benefits either.

Offline chum1

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #428 on: November 17, 2017, 01:51:04 PM »
KK, I saw a piece by an MIT PhD student that talked about the tuition assistance and stuff you were talking about earlier. I didn't really understand it when you were explaining it but he laid it out much more plainly. Now that I understand the issue, wow, what is the point of such an absolutely devastating move? So ridiculous

Quote
If you care about lowering tax rates on savings and investment, you do not insert a random excise tax on the earnings of big university endowments. But if you care about sticking it to coastal elite universities that are full of liberals, that provision makes sense. So does treating tuition waivers for PhD students as taxable income. This will hurt the economy dramatically in the long run by undermining human capital developments and creating a less educated workforce. It might even cost lives by impeding biomedical research. But it’s a good way to own the libs.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/17/16667068/republican-tax-plan-gop-mess

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #429 on: November 17, 2017, 01:51:23 PM »
KK, I saw a piece by an MIT PhD student that talked about the tuition assistance and stuff you were talking about earlier. I didn't really understand it when you were explaining it but he laid it out much more plainly. Now that I understand the issue, wow, what is the point of such an absolutely devastating move? So ridiculous

it owns the libs.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #430 on: November 17, 2017, 02:02:48 PM »
I'm a fiscal conservative and registered republican. I want taxes cut. I want spending cut. I want the deficit reduced. I don't like this plan because it doesn't do any of those things.

Except the first thing. It cuts taxes for the vast majority of people and businesses. And if you're saying you can't support tax cuts unless it's packaged in a bill that cuts spending, you're essentially saying you don't support tax cuts. Take what we can get, and elect more conservatives to office if you want any chance of cutting spending.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #431 on: November 17, 2017, 02:05:22 PM »
I don't care about the deficit, but this tax cut will inevitably lead to major cuts to entitlements.

If Republicans can't get their crap together enough to cut Obamacare, which they hate with a fiery passion, hopefully they won't be able to for Medicare or Social Security benefits either.

:lol: Hopefully? Does anyone here seriously think the GOP can or will even attempt to cut SS or Medicare? Don't get me wrong, they need to be "cut" by which I mean reformed to stay solvent, but that's a pipe dream.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline chum1

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #432 on: November 17, 2017, 02:14:56 PM »
I don't care about the deficit, but this tax cut will inevitably lead to major cuts to entitlements.

If Republicans can't get their crap together enough to cut Obamacare, which they hate with a fiery passion, hopefully they won't be able to for Medicare or Social Security benefits either.

:lol: Hopefully? Does anyone here seriously think the GOP can or will even attempt to cut SS or Medicare? Don't get me wrong, they need to be "cut" by which I mean reformed to stay solvent, but that's a pipe dream.

Yes, this is what is being discussed by your party. FYI.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #433 on: November 17, 2017, 02:16:11 PM »
I'm a fiscal conservative and registered republican. I want taxes cut. I want spending cut. I want the deficit reduced. I don't like this plan because it doesn't do any of those things.

Except the first thing. It cuts taxes for the vast majority of people and businesses . And if you're saying you can't support tax cuts unless it's packaged in a bill that cuts spending, you're essentially saying you don't support tax cuts. Take what we can get, and elect more conservatives to office if you want any chance of cutting spending.

Temporarily.

Also, as of 2015 the latest estimates had between 40-50% of American households paying no federal income tax already. https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2015/10/06/new-estimates-of-how-many-households-pay-no-federal-income-tax/#76fe738561cb

So I don't know what you mean by cutting taxes for the "vast majority of people."

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #434 on: November 17, 2017, 02:22:57 PM »
I'm a fiscal conservative and registered republican. I want taxes cut. I want spending cut. I want the deficit reduced. I don't like this plan because it doesn't do any of those things.

Except the first thing. It cuts taxes for the vast majority of people and businesses . And if you're saying you can't support tax cuts unless it's packaged in a bill that cuts spending, you're essentially saying you don't support tax cuts. Take what we can get, and elect more conservatives to office if you want any chance of cutting spending.

Temporarily.

Also, as of 2015 the latest estimates had between 40-50% of American households paying no federal income tax already. https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2015/10/06/new-estimates-of-how-many-households-pay-no-federal-income-tax/#76fe738561cb

So I don't know what you mean by cutting taxes for the "vast majority of people."

Oh sorry - I thought it was obvious I was talking about people who actually pay FIT already. Because why would you expect people who don't to get a tax cut? This is that liberal/conservative brain thing I was talking about.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Institutional Control

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Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #435 on: November 17, 2017, 04:55:01 PM »
How are 50% of people not paying any federal taxes and how can I do that?


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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #436 on: November 17, 2017, 05:06:05 PM »
Make like 35k a year
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Offline Institutional Control

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #437 on: November 17, 2017, 05:43:12 PM »
Make like 35k a year
I don’t want to brag but that would be a pay cut.


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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #438 on: November 17, 2017, 05:46:58 PM »
no one said that there aren't tradeoffs
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Offline Tobias

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #439 on: November 17, 2017, 09:31:26 PM »
free iphones and hi def flat screens tho

Offline puniraptor

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #440 on: November 17, 2017, 09:59:48 PM »
How are 50% of people not paying any federal taxes and how can I do that?


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50% of taxpayers or 50% of all living things including children, retirees, disabled, etc?

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #441 on: November 18, 2017, 07:02:53 AM »
How are 50% of people not paying any federal taxes and how can I do that?

50% of taxpayers or 50% of all living things including children, retirees, disabled, etc?

"Tax units" aka "households". A tax unit excludes those that are dependents of other tax units, so it's basically everyone who could file a return either individually or jointly. There were an estimated 171.3 million tax units in 2015, the last major study conducted by the Tax Policy Center on the subject.

 An estimated 77.5 million units, or a little over 45%, paid zero or negative FIT in 2015.

You can see all their data in one easy chart here. It is very interesting. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/model-estimates/tax-units-zero-or-negative-income-tax/tax-units-zero-or-negative-income-tax

According to similar studies, the top 1% of income earners pay nearly 50% of all income tax revenue, and the top 20% of income earners pay almost 90% of all income tax revenue.

So our income tax model is extremely "progressive," meaning tax rates increase as income increases, rather than everyone just paying the same rate.

This is balanced out ever so slightly by payroll tax - aka FICA - which funds SS and MC and is a somewhat "regressive" tax, meaning the rate actually goes down at higher incomes. This is because FICA only applies to dollars earned under a certain threshold - around $120k.

Even if you factor in FIT and FICA, there are still 27% of tax units that don't owe those taxes on net.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 07:14:32 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline renocat

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #442 on: November 21, 2017, 07:51:37 AM »
Trump says I am going to get an $1800 tax cut.  $150 a month.  Big whoop deal.  Liar.  He said $4,000.  Liar.  I had my issuance premiums for our family's health insurance increase by $300 per month.  So with Congress and the Great Dealmaker shoving their hands up their butt to avoid hard plowing, I am worse off than if Obama was still in office.  We made a mistake not electing Cruz or Rubio.  Why? Stupid people who don't know issues.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #443 on: November 21, 2017, 09:02:38 AM »
I'm a fiscal conservative and registered republican. I want taxes cut. I want spending cut. I want the deficit reduced. I don't like this plan because it doesn't do any of those things.

Except the first thing. It cuts taxes for the vast majority of people and businesses . And if you're saying you can't support tax cuts unless it's packaged in a bill that cuts spending, you're essentially saying you don't support tax cuts. Take what we can get, and elect more conservatives to office if you want any chance of cutting spending.

Temporarily.

Also, as of 2015 the latest estimates had between 40-50% of American households paying no federal income tax already. https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2015/10/06/new-estimates-of-how-many-households-pay-no-federal-income-tax/#76fe738561cb

So I don't know what you mean by cutting taxes for the "vast majority of people."

Oh sorry - I thought it was obvious I was talking about people who actually pay FIT already. Because why would you expect people who don't to get a tax cut? This is that liberal/conservative brain thing I was talking about.

Call it obvious or not, but it’s directly relevant to your point. The vast majority of Americans do not need tax relief, and those that do are just an afterthought in this bill. Tax relief is just a lame talking point for Republicans to push through a (as sys called it) deficit funded stimulus package. That’s why sd is correct that this bill really doesn’t check any boxes for (non-MAGA) fiscal conservatives.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #444 on: November 21, 2017, 09:33:39 AM »
Meh, it's amazing how liberals are trying to paint broad tax reductions as a bad thing, but pretty much every argument boils down to the same old class warfare. Stoke resentment because somebody's getting a bigger cut, or because somebody's taxes will go up. The vast majority of people who pay FIT will see a reduction, not to mention a possible slight wage increase and likely boost in their college and retirement accounts.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #445 on: November 21, 2017, 09:59:38 AM »
A tax cut isn't needed tho  :th_twocents:
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Offline star seed 7

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #446 on: November 21, 2017, 10:00:44 AM »
Also the corporate tax cut is so lol
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Offline chum1

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #447 on: November 21, 2017, 10:05:53 AM »
This is normal tax reform in the same way that Trump is a normal president.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #448 on: November 21, 2017, 10:58:54 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Taxes (GOP 2017 edition)
« Reply #449 on: November 21, 2017, 11:24:53 AM »
The commentary ITT provides all the evidence I need to know that people who don't pay taxes not only shouldn't be allowed to decide what others pay in taces, but also why people who don't pay taxes should not be allowed to vote.  You have non-stakeholders voting to take money from one class amd give it to themselves.
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