Author Topic: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running  (Read 48315 times)

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #75 on: June 13, 2017, 02:27:51 PM »
Wouldn't voter fraud in theory balance itself out with an equal proportion of each side tallying illegal votes? I mean certainly you don't believe that 100% of voter fraud exists only on on side right?

Actually that is exactly what they think
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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #76 on: June 13, 2017, 02:36:16 PM »
Wouldn't voter fraud in theory balance itself out with an equal proportion of each side tallying illegal votes? I mean certainly you don't believe that 100% of voter fraud exists only on on side right?

Actually that is exactly what they think

Pretty much.
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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #77 on: June 13, 2017, 02:51:29 PM »
Yes. YEEEEESSSSSS! :woot:

A few facts you might not know about Kobach:
1. He's smarter than every one of you dumbasses.
2. He makes liberals heads explode for being upset about things like "illegal" immigration and voter "fraud."
3. He's going to be our next governor and the Kansas liberals are gonna meltdown harder than when Trump won.

Kobach said, “I think the president-elect is absolutely correct when he says the number of illegal votes cast exceeds the popular vote margin … ”

"Since the Legislature granted him the authority to prosecute voter fraud two years ago, he has convicted nine people — only one of whom wasn’t a citizen."

http://cjonline.com/opinion/editorials/2017-06-10/editorial-kris-kobach-doesn-t-belong-cedar-crest

Tell you what - I'll concede it is highly unlikely that the number of illegal votes exceeded the popular vote margin, and you should go ahead and concede that the number of illegal voting prosecutions and convictions is in no way indicative of the amount of illegal voting that's actually going on. The thing about "fraud" is that it is done in secret and most of it goes undetected. And "illegal" voting encompasses way more than voting by illegal immigrants. Let's all use some common sense here. Illegal voting disenfranchises everyone who casts their vote legally, and it's something we ought to care about.

Highly unlikely?  :lol:

I should concede, "that the number of illegal voting prosecutions and convictions is in no way indicative of the amount of illegal voting that's actually going on." Why?

Kobach has made this the focus of his career. What does he have to show for it?

In terms of voter fraud for aliens. One person.

In overall terms of voter fraud. Nine convictions.

See my point above I added about tax fraud. Try to use some common sense. We don't really know how much voter fraud there is because it fraud, but whether it is a lot or a little it is something we should work to prevent. That shouldn't be a controversial point at all, but for liberals it is because it threatens to depress their "base." Telling.
It's really not fiscally conservative to devote a ton of resources to fixing a problem that may not exist to any meaningful degree.

It really doesn't require that much resources to require voter registration and ID, or occasionally prosecute cases of fraud as a deterrent. And that resources it does require are worth it to avoid disenfranchising all of us. Ballot integrity is essential to our republic. There are few things more important.
Right but there are plenty of things "essential to our republic."  Spending millions of dollars to tilt at these voter-fraud windmills is the definition of government waste.


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Offline bucket

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #78 on: June 13, 2017, 03:00:55 PM »
But Kobach is against government waste

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #79 on: June 13, 2017, 03:23:38 PM »
Yes. YEEEEESSSSSS! :woot:

A few facts you might not know about Kobach:
1. He's smarter than every one of you dumbasses.
2. He makes liberals heads explode for being upset about things like "illegal" immigration and voter "fraud."
3. He's going to be our next governor and the Kansas liberals are gonna meltdown harder than when Drumpf won.

Kobach said, “I think the president-elect is absolutely correct when he says the number of illegal votes cast exceeds the popular vote margin … ”

"Since the Legislature granted him the authority to prosecute voter fraud two years ago, he has convicted nine people — only one of whom wasn’t a citizen."

http://cjonline.com/opinion/editorials/2017-06-10/editorial-kris-kobach-doesn-t-belong-cedar-crest

Tell you what - I'll concede it is highly unlikely that the number of illegal votes exceeded the popular vote margin, and you should go ahead and concede that the number of illegal voting prosecutions and convictions is in no way indicative of the amount of illegal voting that's actually going on. The thing about "fraud" is that it is done in secret and most of it goes undetected. And "illegal" voting encompasses way more than voting by illegal immigrants. Let's all use some common sense here. Illegal voting disenfranchises everyone who casts their vote legally, and it's something we ought to care about.

Highly unlikely?  :lol:

I should concede, "that the number of illegal voting prosecutions and convictions is in no way indicative of the amount of illegal voting that's actually going on." Why?

Kobach has made this the focus of his career. What does he have to show for it?

In terms of voter fraud for aliens. One person.

In overall terms of voter fraud. Nine convictions.

See my point above I added about tax fraud. Try to use some common sense. We don't really know how much voter fraud there is because it fraud, but whether it is a lot or a little it is something we should work to prevent. That shouldn't be a controversial point at all, but for liberals it is because it threatens to depress their "base." Telling.
It's really not fiscally conservative to devote a ton of resources to fixing a problem that may not exist to any meaningful degree.

It really doesn't require that much resources to require voter registration and ID, or occasionally prosecute cases of fraud as a deterrent. And that resources it does require are worth it to avoid disenfranchising all of us. Ballot integrity is essential to our republic. There are few things more important.
Right but there are plenty of things "essential to our republic."  Spending millions of dollars to tilt at these voter-fraud windmills is the definition of government waste.

But, that's money ksu wants to spend money on. That's different than spending that money on potential moochers of the system.
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2017, 11:19:29 AM »
Interesting equivalency here. Requiring people to register and present ID is the same cost and merit as spending gobs on welfare....

It's sometimes hard to tell if liberals are really this foolish or just trollin.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2017, 11:23:20 AM »
Interesting equivalency here. Requiring people to register and present ID is the same cost and merit as spending gobs on welfare....

It's sometimes hard to tell if liberals are really this foolish or just trollin.
If it's a problem, then yeah, we should fix it.

What did his witch hunt find though?  9 people or so?  That's government waste, man.  If you can't put your red pennant down for a second and call a spade a spade, then you may be a republican (or at least a RINO), but you're not a conservative. 

This pet project voter fraud stuff is poser crap.


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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2017, 11:31:11 AM »
Interesting equivalency here. Requiring people to register and present ID is the same cost and merit as spending gobs on welfare....

It's sometimes hard to tell if liberals are really this foolish or just trollin.
If it's a problem, then yeah, we should fix it.

What did his witch hunt find though?  9 people or so?  That's government waste, man.  If you can't put your red pennant down for a second and call a spade a spade, then you may be a republican (or at least a RINO), but you're not a conservative. 

This pet project voter fraud stuff is poser crap.

This
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2017, 11:36:04 AM »
Interesting equivalency here. Requiring people to register and present ID is the same cost and merit as spending gobs on welfare....

It's sometimes hard to tell if liberals are really this foolish or just trollin.
If it's a problem, then yeah, we should fix it.

What did his witch hunt find though?  9 people or so?  That's government waste, man.  If you can't put your red pennant down for a second and call a spade a spade, then you may be a republican (or at least a RINO), but you're not a conservative. 

This pet project voter fraud stuff is poser crap.

Again, the nature of fraud is that it is concealed and not easy to identify. It is, for example, almost impossible to detect people voting on behalf of other registered voters except through dumb luck. So citing the low number of prosecutions as proof this isn't a problem is extremely silly.

Second, prosecutions serve as a deterrent to other people committing fraud.

Finally, it costs almost nothing to employ reasonable common sense safeguards like requiring photo ID. We've spent far more money litigating these issues with the liberal groups determined to protect their perceived advantage in allowing people to vote without ID or looser registration requirements.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 11:47:20 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2017, 11:44:01 AM »
Interesting equivalency here. Requiring people to register and present ID is the same cost and merit as spending gobs on welfare....

It's sometimes hard to tell if liberals are really this foolish or just trollin.
If it's a problem, then yeah, we should fix it.

What did his witch hunt find though?  9 people or so?  That's government waste, man.  If you can't put your red pennant down for a second and call a spade a spade, then you may be a republican (or at least a RINO), but you're not a conservative. 

This pet project voter fraud stuff is poser crap.

Again, the nature of fraud is that it is concealed and not easy to identify. It is, for example, almost impossible to detect people voting on behalf of other registered voters except through dumb luck. So citing the low number of prosecutions as proof this isn't a problem is extremely silly.

Second, prosecutions serve as a deterrent to other people committing fraud.

Finally, it costs almost nothing to employ reasonable common sense safeguards like requiring photo ID. We've spent far more money litigating these issues with the liberal groups determined to protect their voting base.
but we both know it's a bogus argument to say "listen we need to spend money on this problem, but we don't know if it's a problem because we can't know, but we're gonna spend money on it anyway."  isn't that pretty much what the argument against spending money on climate change? 

I understand that prosecution has a deterrent rationale.  but how many people are we deterring here?  if this is a problem worth solving, then I would expect someone as smart as kobach, after years of being on this case, to have some evidence that this is a real problem.  how much money/time/investigation is TOO much before we say "eh, maybe this isn't that big of a deal.  maybe our resources would be better spent elsewhere."  I think we passed that point some time ago. 

at some point, this becomes government waste.


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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #85 on: June 14, 2017, 11:45:32 AM »
I was wondering how that double down was going to be. Vagueness, no citing of costs. Also, don't we require ID's already in KS? I dont remember voting and not needing an ID. What problem are we trying to solve? Of yeah, throwing money into a hole. Unless you make it to where it is free for all to get a photo ID card issued from the state, which gasp costs money, to everyone once they turn 18 and to all who are older, than anything else is a boondoggle where ksu and his kin will chase ghosts.
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2017, 11:50:30 AM »
Interesting equivalency here. Requiring people to register and present ID is the same cost and merit as spending gobs on welfare....

It's sometimes hard to tell if liberals are really this foolish or just trollin.
If it's a problem, then yeah, we should fix it.

What did his witch hunt find though?  9 people or so?  That's government waste, man.  If you can't put your red pennant down for a second and call a spade a spade, then you may be a republican (or at least a RINO), but you're not a conservative. 

This pet project voter fraud stuff is poser crap.

Again, the nature of fraud is that it is concealed and not easy to identify. It is, for example, almost impossible to detect people voting on behalf of other registered voters except through dumb luck. So citing the low number of prosecutions as proof this isn't a problem is extremely silly.

Second, prosecutions serve as a deterrent to other people committing fraud.

Finally, it costs almost nothing to employ reasonable common sense safeguards like requiring photo ID. We've spent far more money litigating these issues with the liberal groups determined to protect their voting base.
but we both know it's a bogus argument to say "listen we need to spend money on this problem, but we don't know if it's a problem because we can't know, but we're gonna spend money on it anyway."  isn't that pretty much what the argument against spending money on climate change? 

I understand that prosecution has a deterrent rationale.  but how many people are we deterring here?  if this is a problem worth solving, then I would expect someone as smart as kobach, after years of being on this case, to have some evidence that this is a real problem.  how much money/time/investigation is TOO much before we say "eh, maybe this isn't that big of a deal.  maybe our resources would be better spent elsewhere."  I think we passed that point some time ago. 

at some point, this becomes government waste.

You are parsing my three arguments, when they have to be taken together. The low cost must be taken into account when assessing the value of the actions. And we DO know it is a problem, not just in KS but nationwide. We just don't know for certain how big a problem it is. But common sense tells us that due to the nature of fraud, it is a bigger problem than the number of prosecutions.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2017, 11:57:13 AM »
Sorry for addressing your arguments one at a time.

You say we do know that this is a problem.  How?  Do you have a link?  Are we relying on "common sense" (really, a "hunch") to think that this must be a problem?  Is it Kobach's (or others') paltry number of prosecutions? 

I mean, it looks like he's fixing rounding errors.  He's embarrassing himself and the party with this stuff.


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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2017, 11:58:41 AM »
We do know it is a problem? Sources please
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2017, 12:03:57 PM »
Start here I guess, though a google search would give you plenty more information. http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/13/voter-fraud-real-heres-proof/

If you want to argue that voter fraud isn't significant enough to take the simple and inexpensive step of requiring voters to present a photo ID, we're just gonna have to disagree. If you think voter fraud is nonexistent then you are delusional.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #90 on: June 14, 2017, 12:26:11 PM »
Start here I guess, though a google search would give you plenty more information. http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/13/voter-fraud-real-heres-proof/

If you want to argue that voter fraud isn't significant enough to take the simple and inexpensive step of requiring voters to present a photo ID, we're just gonna have to disagree. If you think voter fraud is nonexistent then you are delusional.
Nobody is saying that instances of voter fraud don't exist.  We're saying that even after this investigation there's no evidence that it's significant enough to devote much attention to.  Your linked article doesn't provide any evidence that it's a real problem.  If it provides anything, it's that voter fraud might be a problem.

Kobach's been after this voter fraud stuff for what, 3 or 4 years now?  And we still don't have an answer as to whether or not this is a problem.  At some point, his time is up. 


"You want to stand next to someone and not be able to hear them, walk your ass into Manhattan, Kansas." - [REDACTED]

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #91 on: June 14, 2017, 12:31:19 PM »
LOL that Kobach actually gives a crap about voter fraud.

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #92 on: June 14, 2017, 12:35:42 PM »
Start here I guess, though a google search would give you plenty more information. http://thefederalist.com/2016/10/13/voter-fraud-real-heres-proof/

If you want to argue that voter fraud isn't significant enough to take the simple and inexpensive step of requiring voters to present a photo ID, we're just gonna have to disagree. If you think voter fraud is nonexistent then you are delusional.
Nobody is saying that instances of voter fraud don't exist.  We're saying that even after this investigation there's no evidence that it's significant enough to devote much attention to.  Your linked article doesn't provide any evidence that it's a real problem.  If it provides anything, it's that voter fraud might be a problem.

Kobach's been after this voter fraud stuff for what, 3 or 4 years now?  And we still don't have an answer as to whether or not this is a problem.  At some point, his time is up.

So now we're down to the meaning of "much attention." Requiring voters to show a photo ID and occasionally prosecuting someone to deter fraud doesn't seem like too much attention. Seems like common sense.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #93 on: June 14, 2017, 12:38:27 PM »
LOL that Kobach actually gives a crap about voter fraud.

Thanks for bringing this back around. Kobach only cares about one thing, and that is a pure white America.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #94 on: June 14, 2017, 12:46:34 PM »
LOL that Kobach actually gives a crap about voter fraud.

Thanks for bringing this back around. Kobach only cares about one thing, and that is a pure white America.

he cares about winning the office he is running for.  I could literally win any office in Kansas with about 15 minutes thought.

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #95 on: June 14, 2017, 12:53:23 PM »
I was wondering how that double down was going to be. Vagueness, no citing of costs. Also, don't we require ID's already in KS? I dont remember voting and not needing an ID. What problem are we trying to solve? Of yeah, throwing money into a hole. Unless you make it to where it is free for all to get a photo ID card issued from the state, which gasp costs money, to everyone once they turn 18 and to all who are older, than anything else is a boondoggle where ksu and his kin will chase ghosts.

We didn't require ID before Kobach.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #96 on: June 24, 2017, 12:35:20 PM »
Was Trump right? Another study says "probably."

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/did-votes-by-noncitizens-cost-trump-the-2016-popular-vote-sure-looks-that-way/

I don't know how many non-citizens are voting, but my hunch is it's enough to require common sense measures like providing proof of citizenship to register.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #97 on: June 24, 2017, 12:49:46 PM »
Just popped into this thread for the first time in a month or so, and my word is dlew ever dunking on K-S-U-Dubz :lol:
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #98 on: June 24, 2017, 12:50:51 PM »

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Re: Kobach our next goofenor? Please no. He's running
« Reply #99 on: June 24, 2017, 12:56:02 PM »
Get em!