Is it fair for Transgenders to compete in sports as who they think they are? No

[BIG APPLE CAT]

that would surprise me quite a bit.

Did you hear about gays accused of being groomers between like 20 and 3 years ago?
Do you ever remember Pride Month getting this much blowback?

Republicans won't stop with anti trans crap, they'll come after gay marriage soon

I mean, adults demanding law that require visual genital inspection of children seem to be pretty damn new also.

Well, girls with penises is pretty new so it actually makes sense for that law to not have been on the books for long.

Define "pretty new".

The entirety of recorded human history isn’t really that long I mean the universe is like 14 billion years old for cryin out loud

[MakeItRain]

that would surprise me quite a bit.

Did you hear about gays accused of being groomers between like 20 and 3 years ago?
Do you ever remember Pride Month getting this much blowback?

Republicans won't stop with anti trans crap, they'll come after gay marriage soon

I mean, adults demanding law that require visual genital inspection of children seem to be pretty damn new also.

Well, girls with penises is pretty new so it actually makes sense for that law to not have been on the books for long.

Define "pretty new".

The entirety of recorded human history isn’t really that long I mean the universe is like 14 billion years old for cryin out loud

You're trying to be cute here but your unintentionally and incorrectly proving his point. "Girls with penises" is not new because it's non-existent. FTM gender affirming surgery isn't performed on minors anywhere in the world. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health does not recommend bottom surgery on anyone under 18 and only allows for top surgery in teens in very specific situations.

We shouldn't crap post when discussing all of the dangerous misinformation about trans people, particularly when they're attempting to illustrate what they call grooming and indoctrination.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

that would surprise me quite a bit.

Did you hear about gays accused of being groomers between like 20 and 3 years ago?
Do you ever remember Pride Month getting this much blowback?

Republicans won't stop with anti trans crap, they'll come after gay marriage soon

I mean, adults demanding law that require visual genital inspection of children seem to be pretty damn new also.

Well, girls with penises is pretty new so it actually makes sense for that law to not have been on the books for long.

Define "pretty new".

The entirety of recorded human history isn’t really that long I mean the universe is like 14 billion years old for cryin out loud

You're trying to be cute here but your unintentionally and incorrectly proving his point. "Girls with penises" is not new because it's non-existent. FTM gender affirming surgery isn't performed on minors anywhere in the world. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health does not recommend bottom surgery on anyone under 18 and only allows for top surgery in teens in very specific situations.

We shouldn't crap post when discussing all of the dangerous misinformation about trans people, particularly when they're attempting to illustrate what they call grooming and indoctrination.

While the term “girls with penises” is reductive at best, I was just making the point that trans people, intersex people, non-binary people, have existed literally as far back as history has been recorded. I have not even bothered to attempt at engaging with Dax - as he talks about parents letting their children be mutilated - bc I know his argument is in such bad faith that there’s really no point. In fact, I suspect he knows that LITERALLY the only time doctors prescribe hormone blockers to pre-pubescent children is when they are diagnosed with precocious puberty, wherein the children in question are not seeking gender affirming care, they’re just getting to puberty way too fast for their age/development. Dax is aware of this fact but it completely devastates his specious argument so he will have no part of it.
Otherwise, fair point. I get frustrated watching dlew and 33 proudly flaunting their ignorance, especially when it’s clear they are callous and indifferent to the struggle that these people are going through. So I guess that’s where I can’t contain my cynicism…I don’t know how to reach the proudly stupid.

[DQ12]

“Proudly flaunting my ignorance”? “Proudly stupid”?

I said I would be surprised if a social trend favoring gay marriage acceptance reversed course.

[Kat Kid]

I don’t mean to be triumphalist by any means, but many republicans tried to make trans and gays and school boards the basis for the mid terms and fell on their face even in a very good environment for them re- Biden’s unpopularity and inflation.

I think Griswold poisons the well significantly for a lot of people that were willing to vote for Bush twice while Rove conspired to put constitutional amendments against gay marriage across the country, but in the context of women’s abortions rights being threatened viscerally, playing these games with people’s lives is taken a bit more seriously.

We cannot overlook the very cynical people that are trying to cause a freak out about books and gays etc. like Chris Rufo, libsoftiktok, et. al. And the threat that they pose. It should be directly confronted. But it hasn’t been a winner and I don’t think it will be.

Most people don’t think shouting down a school board meeting over young adult fiction or calling teachers groomers is respectable adult behavior. So while the stakes are high, it is important to not see these people as a big monster looming. They are in fact small, and pathetic people that have thus far been able to dig a grave for themselves.

When Kansas votes overwhelmingly to maintain a right to abortion and they can’t move things, they will keep trying increasingly undemocratic means to achieve their ends. For moderates and “liberals” these process questions will continue to build the coalition necessary to defeat the fascists, but they will never go away completely.

The left will never build any power approaching these people until there is an affirmative and positive vision put forth and that is the only worry that is real and we should have.

Joe Biden and Donald Trump both represent a spectacle made in the flesh of the rotting American empire, smiling and senile, angry and cornered. We can hold off a bit longer with these lies to comfort ourselves, but waves are coming. How we choose to respond in those times will be the true choice and the waves are not far off.

Starting to make preparations for the real fight would be better than getting too distracted by these weirdos.

[steve dave]

It’s pretty remarkable that the excellent long form post I just read came from the same guy who texts me toilet humor and bofa jokes. KK you are a renaissance man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[michigancat]

Kk, I would argue that the groomer/anti-trans crap would have been way more successful if Roe hadn't been overturned. Banning trans kids from sports or medical care only impacts a few weak people and is way ickier to a lot of folks, while abortion impacts a TON of people.

[Kat Kid]

Kk, I would argue that the groomer/anti-trans crap would have been way more successful if Roe hadn't been overturned. Banning trans kids from sports or medical care only impacts a few weak people and is way ickier to a lot of folks, while abortion impacts a TON of people.

I’m not a woman Rusty. My pronouns are he/him. You can’t just re-post my thesis in your own words and get credit for it.

[sonofdaxjones]

Kk, I would argue that the groomer/anti-trans crap would have been way more successful if Roe hadn't been overturned. Banning trans kids from sports or medical care only impacts a few weak people and is way ickier to a lot of folks, while abortion impacts a TON of people.

Banning in cRusty lunatic world means preventing (for example) biological males from competing against biological women in sports.

On the whole, no one is "banning" these kids from participating in sports, and they are welcome to compete against their biological sex in any sport or competition that they chose to participate in.

[Rage Against the McKee]

that would surprise me quite a bit.

Did you hear about gays accused of being groomers between like 20 and 3 years ago?
Do you ever remember Pride Month getting this much blowback?

Republicans won't stop with anti trans crap, they'll come after gay marriage soon

I mean, adults demanding law that require visual genital inspection of children seem to be pretty damn new also.

Well, girls with penises is pretty new so it actually makes sense for that law to not have been on the books for long.

Define "pretty new".

The entirety of recorded human history isn’t really that long I mean the universe is like 14 billion years old for cryin out loud

You're trying to be cute here but your unintentionally and incorrectly proving his point. "Girls with penises" is not new because it's non-existent. FTM gender affirming surgery isn't performed on minors anywhere in the world. The World Professional Association for Transgender Health does not recommend bottom surgery on anyone under 18 and only allows for top surgery in teens in very specific situations.

We shouldn't crap post when discussing all of the dangerous misinformation about trans people, particularly when they're attempting to illustrate what they call grooming and indoctrination.

I think that "girls with penises" was referring to mtf trans people who haven't had surgery.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

“Proudly flaunting my ignorance”? “Proudly stupid”?

I said I would be surprised if a social trend favoring gay marriage acceptance reversed course.

Would you prefer willfully obtuse? I mean when there is a preponderance of evidence that “thing A” is happening, and you decide to volunteer your opinion that “thing A is not happening, and I would be very surprised if thing A happens” then how would you define that?

Like, sorry dude, this is “smoking is not harmful to your health” magnitude of being on the wrong side of history. Best I can hope for is that at some point in my lifetime, we as a society look back and say “wow, I cannot believe it was socially acceptable to treat a group of people that way, how barbaric” but I’m not especially optimistic that will happen. Lately the trend has been “let’s undo all the progress that’s happened the last 70 years because…reasons. Let’s invent boogie men to stoke fear, because the only reason that a reasonable minded person would support this is if we can convince them there is a looming threat to them/their families. It will also make it a lot easier for the folks who aren’t, ya know, outwardly bigots…it’s a lot easier to sleep at night when you have the mindset of I don’t hate these people bc I’m a bigot I hate them because they are a threat to me”

[DQ12]

“Proudly flaunting my ignorance”? “Proudly stupid”?

I said I would be surprised if a social trend favoring gay marriage acceptance reversed course.

Would you prefer willfully obtuse? I mean when there is a preponderance of evidence that “thing A” is happening, and you decide to volunteer your opinion that “thing A is not happening, and I would be very surprised if thing A happens” then how would you define that?

Like, sorry dude, this is “smoking is not harmful to your health” magnitude of being on the wrong side of history. Best I can hope for is that at some point in my lifetime, we as a society look back and say “wow, I cannot believe it was socially acceptable to treat a group of people that way, how barbaric” but I’m not especially optimistic that will happen. Lately the trend has been “let’s undo all the progress that’s happened the last 70 years because…reasons. Let’s invent boogie men to stoke fear, because the only reason that a reasonable minded person would support this is if we can convince them there is a looming threat to them/their families. It will also make it a lot easier for the folks who aren’t, ya know, outwardly bigots…it’s a lot easier to sleep at night when you have the mindset of I don’t hate these people bc I’m a bigot I hate them because they are a threat to me”

I'm honestly lost.  What was the opinion I volunteered that "thing A is not happening"?  And are you saying I'm on the wrong side of history?  About what?  My tepid prediction about what a pew research poll will look like in a year or two?  Did you mean to quote my post?

You owe me an apology, imo.

[Pete]

Dlew, perhaps they (wrongfully?) deduced that your intention was to play dumb about the obvious increasing dangers to trans folk and their loved ones.

[DQ12]

Dlew, perhaps they (wrongfully?) deduced that your intention was to play dumb about the obvious increasing dangers to trans folk and their loved ones.

We were talking about gay marriage though.

[_33]

Ironic that BAC is talking about people creating 'boogie men' given his unhinged reaction to Dlew's innocuous opinion.

['taterblast]

dlew you monster

[michigancat]

Dlew, perhaps they (wrongfully?) deduced that your intention was to play dumb about the obvious increasing dangers to trans folk and their loved ones.

We were talking about gay marriage though.

I think you are being willfully ignorant about trans rights sentiment being distinct from gay rights sentiment. I'm also picking up vibes of "Republicans wouldn't go after gay marriage!" because you are in favor of gay marriage but also lean to the right. It seems to ignore the growing resentment toward LGBT folks that you yourself shared and said was surprising.

Like I said earlier, I don't think your take is particularly hot though. I definitely don't think you're a monster.

[yoga-like_abana]

You guys (assuming you are guys) have way too many feelings.

[_33]

Dlew, perhaps they (wrongfully?) deduced that your intention was to play dumb about the obvious increasing dangers to trans folk and their loved ones.

We were talking about gay marriage though.

I think you are being willfully ignorant about trans rights sentiment being distinct from gay rights sentiment. I'm also picking up vibes of "Republicans wouldn't go after gay marriage!" because you are in favor of gay marriage but also lean to the right. It seems to ignore the growing resentment toward LGBT folks that you yourself shared and said was surprising.

Like I said earlier, I don't think your take is particularly hot though. I definitely don't think you're a monster.

'picking up on vibes' = I'm going to insert my own interpretation of what you meant here even though you didn't say or imply it.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

“Proudly flaunting my ignorance”? “Proudly stupid”?

I said I would be surprised if a social trend favoring gay marriage acceptance reversed course.

Would you prefer willfully obtuse? I mean when there is a preponderance of evidence that “thing A” is happening, and you decide to volunteer your opinion that “thing A is not happening, and I would be very surprised if thing A happens” then how would you define that?

Like, sorry dude, this is “smoking is not harmful to your health” magnitude of being on the wrong side of history. Best I can hope for is that at some point in my lifetime, we as a society look back and say “wow, I cannot believe it was socially acceptable to treat a group of people that way, how barbaric” but I’m not especially optimistic that will happen. Lately the trend has been “let’s undo all the progress that’s happened the last 70 years because…reasons. Let’s invent boogie men to stoke fear, because the only reason that a reasonable minded person would support this is if we can convince them there is a looming threat to them/their families. It will also make it a lot easier for the folks who aren’t, ya know, outwardly bigots…it’s a lot easier to sleep at night when you have the mindset of I don’t hate these people bc I’m a bigot I hate them because they are a threat to me”

I'm honestly lost.  What was the opinion I volunteered that "thing A is not happening"?  And are you saying I'm on the wrong side of history?  About what?  My tepid prediction about what a pew research poll will look like in a year or two?  Did you mean to quote my post?

You owe me an apology, imo.

Okay, let me try to simplify it. Based on your postings ITT, the vibe I’m getting from you could be boiled down to “you guys are overreacting, the safety/wellbeing/civil rights/etc. of the LGBTQ community are in no more peril today than they were 10 years ago”. That, coupled with the fact that you seem nonplussed at the (in my opinion) vile treatment they are receiving…with a smack of “the reason it doesn’t bother me is because I would prefer they were not around. I’m not saying I would actively take any measures to see that come to fruition, but hey if it happens…that’s fine with me”

If ^all that is not, in fact, your sentiment or at least a good approximation, then yes I do owe you an apology, and I am sorry. I would encourage you in the future to maybe try to be more thoughtful with your word choice because I think for the most part I am pretty good at reading for comprehension and understanding intent, and the above was how I am interpreting what you are saying

[michigancat]

Dlew, perhaps they (wrongfully?) deduced that your intention was to play dumb about the obvious increasing dangers to trans folk and their loved ones.

We were talking about gay marriage though.

I think you are being willfully ignorant about trans rights sentiment being distinct from gay rights sentiment. I'm also picking up vibes of "Republicans wouldn't go after gay marriage!" because you are in favor of gay marriage but also lean to the right. It seems to ignore the growing resentment toward LGBT folks that you yourself shared and said was surprising.

Like I said earlier, I don't think your take is particularly hot though. I definitely don't think you're a monster.

'picking up on vibes' = I'm going to insert my own interpretation of what you meant here even though you didn't say or imply it.

yeah dlew was explicitly trying to understand why people were reacting the they we did and this is an attempt to explain it. I could have the wrong interpretation but we are having a valid dialogue IMO!

[DQ12]

Okay, let me try to simplify it. Based on your postings ITT, the vibe I’m getting from you could be boiled down to “you guys are overreacting, the safety/wellbeing/civil rights/etc. of the LGBTQ community are in no more peril today than they were 10 years ago”. That, coupled with the fact that you seem nonplussed at the (in my opinion) vile treatment they are receiving…with a smack of “the reason it doesn’t bother me is because I would prefer they were not around. I’m not saying I would actively take any measures to see that come to fruition, but hey if it happens…that’s fine with me”

If ^all that is not, in fact, your sentiment or at least a good approximation, then yes I do owe you an apology, and I am sorry. I would encourage you in the future to maybe try to be more thoughtful with your word choice because I think for the most part I am pretty good at reading for comprehension and understanding intent, and the above was how I am interpreting what you are saying

Oh gee, thanks for simplifying it for me.  To be clear, you drew all that from the following exchange?

A bit surprised to see more people opposing trans participation in non-sex-assigned at birth sports compared to 2021.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna88940

The anti-trans campaigns really didn't get going until like 2022 and they have been pretty effective. Plus Lia Thomas won the medal until 2022.

I saw that and thought the question sucked. Not all sports should have the same participation requirements

Also, I expect opposition to gay marriage to start to shift in a similar way as folks like libsoftiktok continue to have larger platforms

that would surprise me quite a bit.

That exchange gave you "the vibe" that "I would prefer [lgbt people] were not around"? I'm a "proudly stupid" bigot on the wrong side of history?

I'll do my best to "be more thoughtful with my word choice," you weirdo.

[Spracne]

The issue, I think, is that it comes across as willful ignorance for a smart person like you to not notice the recent trends in rhetoric, legislation, and even violence directed at the LGBTQ+ community. It's practically impossible to ignore, if you're paying even the slightest attention. They're all freaks, groomers, and pedophiles. And that lie is spoon-fed to conservatives daily from a dizzying matrix of media sources.

[DQ12]

In the future, if a statistic on any lgbt issue surprises me, I'll just keep it to myself. 

[mocat]

I think it's just the phrase choice is ambiguous. "I'd be surprised if..." is very often a euphemism for "there's no effing way that..."