Author Topic: #thetruth  (Read 6169 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online ChiCat

  • Chawbacon
  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 14459
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2016, 11:38:08 AM »
With this schedule, how on earth could you be convinced of forward momentum without an NCAA bid? 

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 35203
  • "Tacky" -Kietz
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2016, 11:42:53 AM »
With this schedule, how on earth could you be convinced of forward momentum without an NCAA bid? 

The "you" is the key.  And Corbin McGuire is up to the task.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 26471
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2016, 12:22:36 PM »
I think it will be very difficult for oscar to keep his job if we don't make the tournament.

The scenario you then laid out doesn't seem difficult at all, especially when Currie can influence the narrative on the momentum/attendance concepts, and to date, has shown he wants to inflate them positively. 

If we don't make the tournament but have considerable forward momentum then he stays and deserves to do so. The CBI or CIT isn't good enough. We'll need to see a couple of big wins and more importantly big crowds at Bramlage. I don't think Currie will have any tolerance for thousands.of empties in February.

It'd be awkward if he were to cite lack of progress and down attendance when nobody's been a bigger proponent of kstatembb success in those fields than himself.  However, he could shut down an NIT berth and then cite lack of being in a "major" tournament as the dealbreaker.

I didn't know people actually take these marketing talking points seriously, I thought you guys were gEing this entire time. Do you really think he or any other AD are going to give you true insight as to their evaluation when discussing programs publicly?

K-State Men's Basketball- "Come out to see the guy I gave one more year to in hopes that he makes my decision more tolerable. Call 1-800-221-CATS"

K-State Football- "Contact the Ahearn Fund today to renew your donation. The amount of cash this program is generating is the only thing that makes dealing with this intractable fossil tolerable."

K-State Volleyball- "Buy tickets to Saturday's matchup with Texas Tech for $3 with your football ticket because we need to squeeze every dime out of this better than average program we can. Sure we'll never allocate resources to make this program any better than it is now, but you don't care and neither do we. Did we mention like the whole team is once again academic all conference?"

K-State baseball- "Buy your season tickets today to see boring college baseball with substandard facilities...BEER!!!"

K-State women's basketball- "COME WATCH JEFF MITTIE, HE'S GOOD I HIRED HIM! PLEASSSSEEEE COME WATCH, WE  CAN'T LET HIM LEAVE, I HIRED HIM GUYS!"

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 26471
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2016, 12:23:23 PM »
With this schedule, how on earth could you be convinced of forward momentum without an NCAA bid?

I said very difficult

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29394
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2016, 12:27:44 PM »
I think it will be very difficult for oscar to keep his job if we don't make the tournament. This conversation becomes difficult to have on gE because 95% of the posters on here have lost all objectivity on this subject. If we don't make the tournament but have considerable forward momentum then he stays and deserves to do so. The CBI or CIT isn't good enough. We'll need to see a couple of big wins and more importantly big crowds at Bramlage. I don't think Currie will have any tolerance for thousands.of empties in February.
Good rational post here.
I have a difficult time participating in most of the men's basketball threads because of your second statement.  I want to discuss things separating what I think from what I feel.  I am not a Weber fan, but I can discuss his positives as well as his negatives.

Yep.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3409
  • Square
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2016, 12:53:20 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

I think from an AD standpoint you could fire oscar even if we make the tournament or not. An Ad could make the argument that with the currently leadership there are issues selling program from multiple standpoints, recruiting and marketing.

oscar could also not make the tournament, be around 30th in kenpom and I would also say it could be very logical not to fire him. That would show two years of improvement with a young roster, gaining 20+ spots in kenpom each year. Could Currie find a better coach than that?

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 26471
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2016, 01:04:35 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

This is certifiably insane. Just for my own edification does anyone else reading this thread think like this? You realize using this logic we would still have Tom Asbury coaching here, right?

Offline Dr Rick Daris

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 22626
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2016, 01:08:44 PM »
yes it is the logic of a mad man. it's mixed-nutz though so

Online libstradamus

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 49027
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2016, 01:20:09 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

This is certifiably insane. Just for my own edification does anyone else reading this thread think like this? You realize using this logic we would still have Tom Asbury coaching here, right?

I get what he's saying and in theory it sounds good to me but doesn't have real world application
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Mixed-Nutz

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3409
  • Square
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2016, 01:22:44 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

This is certifiably insane. Just for my own edification does anyone else reading this thread think like this? You realize using this logic we would still have Tom Asbury coaching here, right?


He was never over 500 in conference play. Would not have been that hard to find some with significantly more potential than him. With this logic might have seen Dana for a longer time. But that ended weirdly and him leaving.

Btw, Wolly ended up with a higher conference winning percentage than Tom.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 22626
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2016, 01:30:38 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

This is certifiably insane. Just for my own edification does anyone else reading this thread think like this? You realize using this logic we would still have Tom Asbury coaching here, right?


He was never over 500 in conference play. Would not have been that hard to find some with significantly more potential than him. With this logic might have seen Dana for a longer time. But that ended weirdly and him leaving.

Btw, Wolly ended up with a higher conference winning percentage than Tom.

dana never finished over .500 either, idiot.

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 35203
  • "Tacky" -Kietz
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2016, 01:44:40 PM »
I think it will be very difficult for oscar to keep his job if we don't make the tournament.

The scenario you then laid out doesn't seem difficult at all, especially when Currie can influence the narrative on the momentum/attendance concepts, and to date, has shown he wants to inflate them positively. 

If we don't make the tournament but have considerable forward momentum then he stays and deserves to do so. The CBI or CIT isn't good enough. We'll need to see a couple of big wins and more importantly big crowds at Bramlage. I don't think Currie will have any tolerance for thousands.of empties in February.

It'd be awkward if he were to cite lack of progress and down attendance when nobody's been a bigger proponent of kstatembb success in those fields than himself.  However, he could shut down an NIT berth and then cite lack of being in a "major" tournament as the dealbreaker.

I didn't know people actually take these marketing talking points seriously, I thought you guys were gEing this entire time. Do you really think he or any other AD are going to give you true insight as to their evaluation when discussing programs publicly?

The team can very easily accomplish more wins, an NIT bid, "big" wins at home, high attendance figures and indicators of progress.  The first 2-3 can be done in reality, the latter 2-3 can be done by continuing the M.O. of the department.  My point is that you started by saying it'd be very difficult for oscar to keep his job if he missed the tournament (I'm sure you meant NCAA), but then laid out a very simple and probable scenario in which he would, and in which I agree he'd keep the job.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 26471
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2016, 01:46:37 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

This is certifiably insane. Just for my own edification does anyone else reading this thread think like this? You realize using this logic we would still have Tom Asbury coaching here, right?


He was never over 500 in conference play. Would not have been that hard to find some with significantly more potential than him. With this logic might have seen Dana for a longer time. But that ended weirdly and him leaving.

Btw, Wolly ended up with a higher conference winning percentage than Tom.

Your two posts here represent two different philosophies. In your first post you said a coach should never be fire for his performance but it should be about the next guy. Then in the second post you talked about Asbury never finishing above .500 in conference, isn't that a performance measure? Also Asbury was an accomplished coach, there was no reason at the time, our athletic department was truly a barren wasteland, to think we were going to find someone as accomplished as Asbury. Guess what happened, we didn't find someone as accomplished as Asbury either, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have canned him.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 26471
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2016, 01:53:03 PM »
I think it will be very difficult for oscar to keep his job if we don't make the tournament.

The scenario you then laid out doesn't seem difficult at all, especially when Currie can influence the narrative on the momentum/attendance concepts, and to date, has shown he wants to inflate them positively. 

If we don't make the tournament but have considerable forward momentum then he stays and deserves to do so. The CBI or CIT isn't good enough. We'll need to see a couple of big wins and more importantly big crowds at Bramlage. I don't think Currie will have any tolerance for thousands.of empties in February.

It'd be awkward if he were to cite lack of progress and down attendance when nobody's been a bigger proponent of kstatembb success in those fields than himself.  However, he could shut down an NIT berth and then cite lack of being in a "major" tournament as the dealbreaker.

I didn't know people actually take these marketing talking points seriously, I thought you guys were gEing this entire time. Do you really think he or any other AD are going to give you true insight as to their evaluation when discussing programs publicly?

The team can very easily accomplish more wins, an NIT bid, "big" wins at home, high attendance figures and indicators of progress.  The first 2-3 can be done in reality, the latter 2-3 can be done by continuing the M.O. of the department.  My point is that you started by saying it'd be very difficult for oscar to keep his job if he missed the tournament (I'm sure you meant NCAA), but then laid out a very simple and probable scenario in which he would, and in which I agree he'd keep the job.

The difference is that if he went 8-10 with wins over KU, OSU, and WVU or Baylor I would give him credit for relevant progress, I'm not sure you would. That's not to say I think he's the long term solution, but I wouldn't mock Currie for keeping him. I also think a season like this does not remove oscar from the hot seat, I don't think he can afford to take a step back or a lateral step until he finishes in the top four with a tournament win. He was able to survive the previous two years because he really didn't have anywhere to go but down. He's now bottomed out and he will not get the luxury of doing this again.

Offline Skipper44

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 7051
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2016, 01:58:03 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

This is certifiably insane. Just for my own edification does anyone else reading this thread think like this? You realize using this logic we would still have Tom Asbury coaching here, right?
I could agree with Mixed Nuts statement if we are talking about a guy like Jaime Dixon or Matt Painter - guys with a track record of success that have had some tough years and are young enough that their best days might be ahead of them.  Not a 60 year old that hasn't won a NCAA game in 5 years.

Offline Dr Rick Daris

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 22626
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2016, 01:58:21 PM »
I'm not trim, but for me personally, I mock currie for hiring him and giving him the job in the first place. so in that sense, every day that goes by in which oscar is still the coach is a day that I will continue to mock currie.

Offline Trim

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 35203
  • "Tacky" -Kietz
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2016, 02:07:35 PM »
The difference is that if he went 8-10 with wins over KU, OSU, and WVU or Baylor I would give him credit for relevant progress, I'm not sure you would. That's not to say I think he's the long term solution, but I wouldn't mock Currie for keeping him. I also think a season like this does not remove oscar from the hot seat, I don't think he can afford to take a step back or a lateral step until he finishes in the top four with a tournament win. He was able to survive the previous two years because he really didn't have anywhere to go but down. He's now bottomed out and he will not get the luxury of doing this again.

It doesn't matter what I give him credit for w/respect to whether he keeps his job.

I don't mock Currie for keeping him.  I mock Currie for hiring him.  Now I want Currie to keep him and live w/him for as long as Currie's at KSU.

Your example of what he could do to keep his job - more Ws, NIT, "progress" - isn't difficult.  Yes, being able to accomplish progress w/that is a result of being so shitty.  I'm in agreement with you other than your very initial premise that it would be difficult for him to keep his job if he didn't make the tournament.

However, I think it'll be difficult for him to lose his job under almost any realistic outcome of this season, and I'm glad.

Offline Chingon

  • Master of the Atom
  • Administrator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 14686
    • View Profile
    • goEMAW.com
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2016, 02:17:06 PM »
I think oscar just needs 6 conference wins to be safe.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3409
  • Square
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2016, 02:50:42 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

This is certifiably insane. Just for my own edification does anyone else reading this thread think like this? You realize using this logic we would still have Tom Asbury coaching here, right?


He was never over 500 in conference play. Would not have been that hard to find some with significantly more potential than him. With this logic might have seen Dana for a longer time. But that ended weirdly and him leaving.

Btw, Wolly ended up with a higher conference winning percentage than Tom.

Your two posts here represent two different philosophies. In your first post you said a coach should never be fire for his performance but it should be about the next guy. Then in the second post you talked about Asbury never finishing above .500 in conference, isn't that a performance measure? Also Asbury was an accomplished coach, there was no reason at the time, our athletic department was truly a barren wasteland, to think we were going to find someone as accomplished as Asbury. Guess what happened, we didn't find someone as accomplished as Asbury either, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have canned him.

Its still always about the next guy. Firing a bad coach to hire another bad coach is just a waste of buyout money. It only hurts the program. Firing and coach and hiring a worse coach is how you get in the position that KU football is in.

If oscar starts to struggle, Currie needs not only understand the coaching market but have relations, tie ins and ect to the next guy. OSU showed last year how you perform a coaching search, from my understanding they were talking to Brad for sometime. Otherwise it is just a waste.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 26471
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2016, 03:11:00 PM »
Only fire oscar once you have a better coach or a coach with significantly better potential lined up. It should never be about firing a guy for performance. Should always be about the next guy. The poor performance only opens the the door for Currie to do his job.

This is certifiably insane. Just for my own edification does anyone else reading this thread think like this? You realize using this logic we would still have Tom Asbury coaching here, right?


He was never over 500 in conference play. Would not have been that hard to find some with significantly more potential than him. With this logic might have seen Dana for a longer time. But that ended weirdly and him leaving.

Btw, Wolly ended up with a higher conference winning percentage than Tom.

Your two posts here represent two different philosophies. In your first post you said a coach should never be fire for his performance but it should be about the next guy. Then in the second post you talked about Asbury never finishing above .500 in conference, isn't that a performance measure? Also Asbury was an accomplished coach, there was no reason at the time, our athletic department was truly a barren wasteland, to think we were going to find someone as accomplished as Asbury. Guess what happened, we didn't find someone as accomplished as Asbury either, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have canned him.

Its still always about the next guy. Firing a bad coach to hire another bad coach is just a waste of buyout money. It only hurts the program. Firing and coach and hiring a worse coach is how you get in the position that KU football is in.

If oscar starts to struggle, Currie needs not only understand the coaching market but have relations, tie ins and ect to the next guy. OSU showed last year how you perform a coaching search, from my understanding they were talking to Brad for sometime. Otherwise it is just a waste.

Mixed-Nutz, no one thinks they are going to hire a bad coach when you have to get a guy. There is no such thing as a sure thing. Two  of the top three winningest programs in college basketball history have missed on "sure things" within their last two hires. You have no idea what you're going to get when you make a hire, that shouldn't stop you from evaluating what you currently have on his or her own merits. Man, you sound like someone hiring a coach for Iowa State football.

Online michigancat

  • Contributor
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 39488
  • change your stupid avatar.
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2016, 03:17:13 PM »
TBH I don't really care if oscar does well and/or is fired or not. :ck:

Offline Dr Rick Daris

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 22626
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2016, 03:20:28 PM »
I think oscar just needs 6 conference wins to be safe.

yep

Offline #LIFE

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1791
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2016, 04:06:33 PM »
Could Currie find a better coach than that?

He couldn't, but an AD that gives a crap about basketball could. A top 25 program shouldn't have to pull a fired oscar Weber out of his hat.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 26471
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2016, 04:53:19 PM »
I think oscar just needs 6 conference wins to be safe.

yep

I'd be willing to bet the both of you you're wrong but the only way there can be a payoff is if we win exactly 6. I already have trim on the hook from football season, either of you want to take me up? If we win six conference games, he's gone baby gone.

Online libstradamus

  • hyperactive on the :lol:
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 49027
  • good dog
    • View Profile
Re: #thetruth
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2016, 05:03:10 PM »
Longbones  :drool:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite