K-State vs A&M in Pyramid Scheme Bowl

[DQ12]

I hate bowl tie ins.  I'm so sick of playing in the Texas Bowl....

Preach, brother!

We've only played in the texas bowl once and it was a decade ago.

[BIG APPLE CAT]

I hate bowl tie ins.  I'm so sick of playing in the Texas Bowl....

Preach, brother!

We've only played in the texas bowl once and it was a decade ago.

That's only like one season in ku years

[catastrophe]

If it's up to him he's going to play. In a situation like this it shouldn't be up to the player though, imo.

Why not? He's an adult who is apparently healthy enough to play. I'm not aware of any chance of aggravating the injury with any long term consequences.

He's an adult? So you think these players have full control over the decisions they make in the program? They can't make the decision when to wear hats but the coaches allow them to make the decision when to have medical procedures? You don't know the injury so you can't possibly know the risk of exaggerating the injury. I know what he had been asked to do has been altered which means hee should probably get it taken care if instead of playing in an exhibition. If the coaches told him they think it's in his best interest to get the procedure now instead of January, he'd do it now.

Yes, he's an adult.  I'm not exactly sure what your hat reference is regarding, but even 30-40 year old NFL players are restricted as to what they can and cannot wear on game day (even after games to an extent).  Obviously I'm assuming the coaches and training staff gave him all the information and relative risks as they understood them.  If they did that, I have no problem letting Ertz decide whether he's going to play.

[420seriouscat69]

I hate bowl tie ins.  I'm so sick of playing in the Texas Bowl....

Preach, brother!

We've only played in the texas bowl once and it was a decade ago.

I had a long discussion about bowl tie ins in the bowl projections thread. I would just like them to rotate them more often. I'm not singling out the Texas bowl. Just wanna see some new landscape.

[meow meow]

Houston <<<< El Paso

[Mikeyis4dcats]

I hate bowl tie ins.  I'm so sick of playing in the Texas Bowl....

Preach, brother!

We've only played in the texas bowl once and it was a decade ago.

and that's how much I hated it!

[MakeItRain]

If it's up to him he's going to play. In a situation like this it shouldn't be up to the player though, imo.

Why not? He's an adult who is apparently healthy enough to play. I'm not aware of any chance of aggravating the injury with any long term consequences.

He's an adult? So you think these players have full control over the decisions they make in the program? They can't make the decision when to wear hats but the coaches allow them to make the decision when to have medical procedures? You don't know the injury so you can't possibly know the risk of exaggerating the injury. I know what he had been asked to do has been altered which means hee should probably get it taken care if instead of playing in an exhibition. If the coaches told him they think it's in his best interest to get the procedure now instead of January, he'd do it now.

Yes, he's an adult.  I'm not exactly sure what your hat reference is regarding, but even 30-40 year old NFL players are restricted as to what they can and cannot wear on game day (even after games to an extent).  Obviously I'm assuming the coaches and training staff gave him all the information and relative risks as they understood them.  If they did that, I have no problem letting Ertz decide whether he's going to play.

The reference is that coaches dictate trivial things to players all of the time because they perceive these thing being good for the program, coach, or the player. They can't force him to have any surgery but they can tell him that they think getting the surgery without playing again is in his best interest and they will not play him in an exhibition game until he is healed. Doing something like that is not in the best interest of the coaches do they aren't likely to do it. Not all coaches act in their best interests only but most do. When coaches stand in these kids' living room I don't think putting off medical procedures is on the speech given to parents.

[Shooter Jones]

Hats have been banned from Vanier since the "all hat, no cattle" debacle of '08. Everyone knows that.

[kso_FAN]

The reference is that coaches dictate trivial things to players all of the time because they perceive these thing being good for the program, coach, or the player. They can't force him to have any surgery but they can tell him that they think getting the surgery without playing again is in his best interest and they will not play him in an exhibition game until he is healed. Doing something like that is not in the best interest of the coaches do they aren't likely to do it. Not all coaches act in their best interests only but most do. When coaches stand in these kids' living room I don't think putting off medical procedures is on the speech given to parents.

Many players will/would refuse this. If there is any option to play, they will play. I am positive the coaches, doctors, and training staff lay out all the ramifications of injuries, surgeries, and when those can/should take place. It is in the best interest of the coaching staff for players to be available as soon as possible and not risk long term health. Yes, at times there may be some coercion from the coaches that players should play if they are able, but I assure you that comes back just as much from players to coaches if/when a coach suggests a player possibly should sit out a game.

[MakeItRain]

The reference is that coaches dictate trivial things to players all of the time because they perceive these thing being good for the program, coach, or the player. They can't force him to have any surgery but they can tell him that they think getting the surgery without playing again is in his best interest and they will not play him in an exhibition game until he is healed. Doing something like that is not in the best interest of the coaches do they aren't likely to do it. Not all coaches act in their best interests only but most do. When coaches stand in these kids' living room I don't think putting off medical procedures is on the speech given to parents.

Many players will/would refuse this. If there is any option to play, they will play. I am positive the coaches, doctors, and training staff lay out all the ramifications of injuries, surgeries, and when those can/should take place. It is in the best interest of the coaching staff for players to be available as soon as possible and not risk long term health. Yes, at times there may be some coercion from the coaches that players should play if they are able, but I assure you that comes back just as much from players to coaches if/when a coach suggests a player possibly should sit out a game.

I don't doubt that at all but you know how football coaches take helmets away from concussed players when the player thinks they are okay to play? Or when the coaches wouldn't allow McCrane to play when he begged and begged when Patterson missed that XP against OSU? They should do that here with Sisco. I know he wants to be there for his guys but his future is much more important, take his helmet.

[MakeItRain]

And were not just talking about one more game but another month of practice reps for the game, it isn't necessary.

[DQ12]

do we know if ertz actually needs surgery or are we just playing message board MD over here?

[kso_FAN]

do we know if ertz actually needs surgery or are we just playing message board MD over here?

No. Nor do we know the severity, it could be a minor scope.

I don't think its a rotator cuff, which I agree would require quick surgery. I think if the injury was severe enough he wouldn't have played. And I don't just think it's K-State QBs that suffer injuries, play through the season, and have surgery after the bowl game. If there is some shoulder epidemic, then I agree that like concussions, helmets should be taken, but I don't believe that is the case here. Also, others probably have similar shoulder injuries, but no one cares when its not the quarterback.

[MakeItRain]

do we know if ertz actually needs surgery or are we just playing message board MD over here?

Pretty much what _FAN said, as I said previously he's going to need anything from a scope to something potentially as invasive as a reconstruction. This is sourced, I'm not guessing.

If there is some shoulder epidemic, then I agree that like concussions, helmets should be taken, but I don't believe that is the case here. Also, others probably have similar shoulder injuries, but no one cares when its not the quarterback.

I don't know about other people but if anyone has this nature of injury and it is a bone, tendon, ligament, muscle that is high use they should get it fixed. I may have not made this clear but I'm okay with players playing through injury during the season, if the player wants to. However this issue is unique to college football, the season is over and I don't think a bowl game is worth any potential furtherance of medical issues. He wouldn't play with this through spring football, it makes no since to do it for bowl practice and a game.

[Gooch]

do we know if ertz actually needs surgery or are we just playing message board MD over here?

He is a K-State QB in year 2 under Snyder. He needs shoulder surgery.

[kso_FAN]

I don't know about other people but if anyone has this nature of injury and it is a bone, tendon, ligament, muscle that is high use they should get it fixed. I may have not made this clear but I'm okay with players playing through injury during the season, if the player wants to. However this issue is unique to college football, the season is over and I don't think a bowl game is worth any potential furtherance of medical issues. He wouldn't play with this through spring football, it makes no since to do it for bowl practice and a game.

That's a good point. I'm hopeful that the ability to be back to nearly 100% by spring practice has been discussed and that Ertz has a high likelyhood of that happening.

[Katpappy]

I do think coaches will let players play regardless of their health.  Remember Ell and Grant Gregory.  Both could not play after college due to shoulder injuries.

[Yard Dog]

If it's up to him he's going to play. In a situation like this it shouldn't be up to the player though, imo.

Why not? He's an adult who is apparently healthy enough to play. I'm not aware of any chance of aggravating the injury with any long term consequences.

He's an adult? So you think these players have full control over the decisions they make in the program? They can't make the decision when to wear hats but the coaches allow them to make the decision when to have medical procedures? You don't know the injury so you can't possibly know the risk of exaggerating the injury. I know what he had been asked to do has been altered which means hee should probably get it taken care if instead of playing in an exhibition. If the coaches told him they think it's in his best interest to get the procedure now instead of January, he'd do it now.

From a more big picture perspective, winning this bowl game could put him and the team in a better position for success. It would benefit recruiting, national perception, and team confidence. If Ertz doesn't play, we don't win. That simple.