Official 2016 Coaching Carousel (football edition)

[michigancat]

There will be new PJ Flecks and Brad Underwoods every year IMO

[DOD Take 2]

We didn't have an opening and we have a top 20 team returning. I'm not sure where we messed up.

just has that feel to it that the guy will be a superstar and we couldve had him is all im saying ala oscar and brad

I get that, but IMO our basketball situation last year and going after Brad was much different than this year's football and Fleck. I really like Fleck and he's definitely the type of guy I want us to go after when Snyder leaves, but I'm not going to worry about it right now when the football program is in good shape. It helps that we had a pretty good season, but I would never be for forcing Snyder out like I was with oscar either. That would be a BS move IMO.

I would highly doubt PJ Fleck is at Minnesota in 4 years anyway. I'm surprised he took the job to begin with, but I'd guess he's willing to jump to a bigger, better program after a couple of years

[KITNfury]

I appreciate everything Snyder's done but if the time comes when we are better off going forward without him, we should absolutely force him out.  This is certainly not that time but I don't agree with the view that he can do whatever he wants with the program.

But you can't ever really know you're better off forcing out your current coach and going w/ someone new.  Granted,  if Snyder is winning 3 games per year,  it would be a different argument.  There are so few non-risky hires out there and we're not a school that will get those guys.

[MakeItRain]

Yeah, I mean Bobby Bowden got fired.

[MakeItRain]

There will be new PJ Flecks and Brad Underwoods every year IMO

There isn't much of a comparison between PJ Fleck and Brad Underwood. For starters PJ Fleck has more experience being a CEO and he's like 15-20 years younger. Also when you hire Fleck you're hiring a brand for your program. Brad is a dude who had two good years at a low major and who went here. PJ completely rebuilt that program. He may not win at Minnesota but PJ Fleck was definitely a different coaching candidate than pretty much any other coach we've ever seen in football or basketball.

[michigancat]

There will be new PJ Flecks and Brad Underwoods every year IMO

There isn't much of a comparison between PJ Fleck and Brad Underwood. For starters PJ Fleck has more experience being a CEO and he's like 15-20 years younger. Also when you hire Fleck you're hiring a brand for your program. Brad is a dude who had two good years at a low major and who went here. PJ completely rebuilt that program. He may not win at Minnesota but PJ Fleck was definitely a different coaching candidate than pretty much any other coach we've ever seen in football or basketball.

I pretty much agree - the main similarity I see is that folks ITT seem think they are once-in-a-lifetime candidates for KSU. While both are unique, it isn't like they were our only shots at greatness. That's all I was saying.

[pissclams]

quality candidates will always be there for us.  the question is, will the ksu cats hire the right ones.

[TheHamburglar]

There will be new PJ Flecks and Brad Underwoods every year IMO

There isn't much of a comparison between PJ Fleck and Brad Underwood. For starters PJ Fleck has more experience being a CEO and he's like 15-20 years younger. Also when you hire Fleck you're hiring a brand for your program. Brad is a dude who had two good years at a low major and who went here. PJ completely rebuilt that program. He may not win at Minnesota but PJ Fleck was definitely a different coaching candidate than pretty much any other coach we've ever seen in football or basketball.

I'm interested to see how PJ cultivates a new brand at Minnesota.  WMU owns the trademark to "Row The Boat". 

As I'm typing this, I wonder if they'll strike a deal with Minnesota for it.  I'm guessing the did it more for merchandising and it's a greatly diminished value to WMU now.

[ChiComCat]

I appreciate everything Snyder's done but if the time comes when we are better off going forward without him, we should absolutely force him out.  This is certainly not that time but I don't agree with the view that he can do whatever he wants with the program.

But you can't ever really know you're better off forcing out your current coach and going w/ someone new.  Granted,  if Snyder is winning 3 games per year,  it would be a different argument.  There are so few non-risky hires out there and we're not a school that will get those guys.

Yea, Snyder is doing a great job now and forcing him out for Fleck is laughable.  I'm sad Fleck got hired by Minnesota because he could've been a good option if we're looking next year.  He's not one in a million and may not be my first choice, but he would be a quality coach to have in our candidate pool.

There won't be Underwood candidates every year but that is more due to his K-State ties than his coaching ability.  There will be plenty of Flecks.  The difference for me is that we should've been in a market for a basketball coach but we have no reason to be in the market for a football coach.

[Pete]

John Currie will decide what's best for us. 

[MakeItRain]

I appreciate everything Snyder's done but if the time comes when we are better off going forward without him, we should absolutely force him out.  This is certainly not that time but I don't agree with the view that he can do whatever he wants with the program.

But you can't ever really know you're better off forcing out your current coach and going w/ someone new.  Granted,  if Snyder is winning 3 games per year,  it would be a different argument.  There are so few non-risky hires out there and we're not a school that will get those guys.

Yea, Snyder is doing a great job now and forcing him out for Fleck is laughable.  I'm sad Fleck got hired by Minnesota because he could've been a good option if we're looking next year.  He's not one in a million and may not be my first choice, but he would be a quality coach to have in our candidate pool.

There won't be Underwood candidates every year but that is more due to his K-State ties than his coaching ability.  There will be plenty of Flecks.  The difference for me is that we should've been in a market for a basketball coach but we have no reason to be in the market for a football coach.

I'm reading this and my takeaway is that you're saying that Brad Underwood is a unique entity but PJ Fleck isn't. I'd that what you're saying?

[kso_FAN]

I think he was just saying Underwood is unique because of his K-State ties. Both are quality candidates, but neither is can't miss. I'd say Fleck's age and accomplishments make him a better candidate to be can't miss though.

[ChiComCat]

What FAN said.  Brad is unique to K-State, to every other CBB team he is just the current overachieving mid-major coach. 

Comparing BB coaches to FB is tough for me because FB is infinitely more important to get right.

[MakeItRain]

What FAN said.  Brad is unique to K-State, to every other CBB team he is just the current overachieving mid-major coach. 

All that matters to me, I don't care where any coaching candidate went to school, it's why I'm lukewarm at best with Venables. He hasn't been a serious candidate anywhere after being a successful coordinator for 18 seasons, why do we want him here?

[yoga-like_abana]

because we do.. ok

It just feels like he's been saving himself for us 

[MakeItRain]

Oh okay.

How much more experienced Ron Prince than Venables in 2004?

[kso_FAN]

Oh okay.

How much more experienced Ron Prince than Venables in 2004?

He had been a coordinator of an average offense for 3 years and only been coaching at a P5 school for 5.

Venables has been coordinator or co-coordinator for 18 years for 2 major programs competing for league and national titles.

I don't think they are comparable. I do agree its weird that Venables has never seriously been pursued by anyone.

[ChiComCat]

I thought when he was at OU he was in the mix for a few jobs.  Of course there maybe a reason why nobody actually hired him.

[MakeItRain]

Oh okay.

How much more experienced Ron Prince than Venables in 2004?

He had been a coordinator of an average offense for 3 years and only been coaching at a P5 school for 5.

Venables has been coordinator or co-coordinator for 18 years for 2 major programs competing for league and national titles.

I don't think they are comparable. I do agree its weird that Venables has never seriously been pursued by anyone.

No, literally in 2004, not today. Venables had the better resume even then.

[kso_FAN]

No, literally in 2004, not today. Venables had the better resume even then.

Oh, got it. And yeah, by quite a bit. Ron really just had a binder. A really nice one.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Last night the ESPN ticker said Minny was looking at Les Miles.

Not that we want Fleck, but I'm pretty confident we could hire a HC away from rough ridin' Minnesota if we wanted to, you rubes.

[MakeItRain]

Last night the ESPN ticker said Minny was looking at Les Miles.

Not that we want Fleck, but I'm pretty confident we could hire a HC away from rough ridin' Minnesota if we wanted to, you rubes.

Yeah, if he was making $2 million a year.

[ChiComCat]

I think we're enough better that available coaches would pick us over Minnesota but not enough better that a coach would leave Minnesota for us.

[catastrophe]

Oh okay.

How much more experienced Ron Prince than Venables in 2004?

He had been a coordinator of an average offense for 3 years and only been coaching at a P5 school for 5.

Venables has been coordinator or co-coordinator for 18 years for 2 major programs competing for league and national titles.

I don't think they are comparable. I do agree its weird that Venables has never seriously been pursued by anyone.

I have always assumed that Venables has been "seriously pursued" in the same way Snyder has been.  There is no question other programs have reached out, but I think he just has made it so clear he is not interested that it never goes far enough to even be a rumor.  It could even be that Venables' agent keeps coming forward to him with calls from schools that are interested and he just doesn't call them back.

[KITNfury]

I think we're enough better that available coaches would pick us over Minnesota but not enough better that a coach would leave Minnesota for us.

You're right.  But for more reason than you listed.  The only way (well not counting the Currie brucing it up) we would hire a Minnesota coach is if he were having good success.  And if a coach there had the ball rolling,  why would he risk leaving to another,  comparable job? Probably wouldn't unless you threw tons of money at him and even then maybe not.