Author Topic: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science  (Read 10297 times)

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Offline ednksu

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Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« on: April 12, 2016, 04:20:18 PM »
Yes it does have a lot to do with climate change, but it's important theme is the rejection of shared facts.  If we can't even agree on facts, than how can you enter into a policy debate about those facts.

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/04/12/473850478/politics-and-the-fracturing-of-shared-reality

You don't need me to tell you how unusual this primary season has been. Every day, more news sites offer more commentary seeking to explain how American politics reached its current, seemly surreal state.

But here at 13.7, our goal is to offer commentary on places where science and culture intersect. From that perspective, one key aspect of this season's political upheaval can be traced back a decade or more. That aspect is "reality," or at least the part we're all supposed to agree on.

Over the past five years, I've written many times about the rising tide of science denial in this country and the dangers it poses. As last year's spread of measles at Disneyland demonstrated, denying real facts has consequences in the real world. Viruses don't care whom you vote for or what Facebook groups you join. And the facts about viruses — the "what-should-we-do-now" kinds of facts — are best revealed through science. That is why, as a nation, we give it value.

When the methods of science are pursued as intended, what is returned is public knowledge. This knowledge, composed of facts and an understanding of their limits, are critical for a functioning democracy. The founders of the American experiment in self-government understood the urgency of public knowledge. It's why they held science in such high regard. It was, for them, the principle means of establishing the background needed for our public life, a background composed of a shared reality.

Unfortunately, over the past 10 years, we have seen the viability of public knowledge eroding in the public sphere for all the wrong reasons. More than anything else, the pressure driving this erosion can be summed up in two words: climate change.

Before we go any further, it is crucial to note that the Republican Party was, for decades, a champion of the U.S. scientific effort. Republican presidents created NASA, NOAA and the EPA. These lawmakers understood how science served as the engine of national security, stability and economic vitality.

Then came climate change.

On this issue, the Republicans did not start out uniformly denying global warming was a problem. For a time, there was consideration over proper responses from all players. But over the past 16 years, one half of the American political establishment came to be aligned with what can only be called denialist positions. Time and time again, the nation's premier scientific organizations (NASA, NOAA the AAAS) issued unequivocal statements about climate change and the threat it posed. Even the military weighed in, as it understands the destabilizing global threat climate change poses. And yet, over and over again, Congressional leaders have rejected the authority of these sources.

It can be argued that the denial of climate change is simply part of a longer trend in turning away from science. For example, the battle of evolution and creationism has a long history in this country. And, in many ways, the forces seeking to cast doubt on climate science took a page from the playbook of creationism in their choice of tactics. But the debate over evolution has never had the scope or the reach of what has happened with climate. In particular, we have never seen the kind of wholesale political attack on a science (particularly a physical science) that has come with the climate debate.

In the decades that followed World War II, politicians understood the ways in which science contributed to the national good. There was an implicit agreement that science should be left to determine its results, and the role of policymakers was to absorb those results within their own policy debates.

But that agreement was broken with climate science. An entire field of research whose results have dizzying implications has been rejected as a whole. The work of thousands of researchers spanning decades is claimed to be wrong or, worse yet, a hoax. And, unlike the debate over evolution, the claim is made at the highest levels and seems to span the whole of a political party. This is something new in our history.

Our ability to deal with climate change has clearly been adversely affected by this rejection of scientific endeavor. But facing into the winds of this strange primary season, we can see how this denial yielded other consequences, too.

If the point of science is to provide us with a method for establishing public knowledge, then its rejection is also the rejection that such public knowledge is possible. If we hold science in esteem because it represents a best practice for establishing shared facts that hold regardless of ethic, religious or political background, then denying science means denying the possibility of such facts. It implies there can be no means for establishing facts about the world and no reason to award authority to mechanisms that deliver those facts.

This wholesale rejection of a shared reality was always the great danger lying in organized, politicized climate science denial. After all, why stop with climate science? Once you get started down this road, who or what determines that it's gone too far?

When the current president was elected, a new variety of conspiracy theory emerged called birtherism. It held that the president was not a U.S. citizen, as demanded by the Constitution, and was therefore holding power illegally. The release of the president's long-form birth certificate did not end the theory. In 2011, a CNN poll "showed that roughly 25 percent of Americans — including over four in 10 Republicans — believe Obama was definitely or probably not born in the United States."

The birther movement certainly can be seen as just another conspiracy theory living in the same fog-shrouded realm as Kennedy assassination plots and claims that the moon landing was a hoax. But the current political season shows us something more. In it we can see how much the landscape of shared reality has been fractured.

American politics has, of course, always had its conspiracy theories and its fringes on the left and the right. And it was always the role of good leadership to act as the adult in the room and maintain the sanctity of our shared realities. John McCain embodied this role when he famously corrected a voter claiming Obama was an Arab.

But as of today, the front-runner in the Republican primary is a man who repeatedly fanned the birther fire. In past elections, it would have been unthinkable for a candidate who held views so at odds with the shared reality of public documents and their veracity to be taken seriously.

Not this time around, however.

For many people in both parties, to find ourselves in this situation seems incredible and more than a little unreal. But that is the point. As a scientist, I've been watching with dismay how reality, as delivered by science at least, has fared in politics. To me, the slide into the gray zone where all facts about the world are up for grabs is the logical consequence of organized science denial.

Without doubt, politics will always be about more than facts. The advocacy for different policy choices can have as much resonance with personal values as it can with numbers established through science or other mechanisms. There can — and should — be vigorous debate about how our values shape public policy from immigration to economics.

But that debate has to be couched within a landscape whose contours are shared as public knowledge. The active, organized denial of climate change science opened the doors to a very public retreat from the principle that a shared public reality could be the basis for our debates. For a nation whose greatness has so often been synonymous with its scientific and technological prowess, that retreat is something we must now take very seriously.


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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2016, 04:47:20 PM »
In the vast majority of the so called climate change debate, the warmest alarmists have now almost exclusively laid all real or perceived negative climate issues at the alter of AGW. 

This is just more minutia being tossed out there by what is now an industry that quite clearly wants to have none of its so called findings, "science" and dire proclamations questioned by anyone.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2016, 07:07:08 PM »
REPUBLICANS WILL FEEL SORRY WHEN NEW YORK CITY IS COMPLETELY UNDERWATER IN 50 YEARS

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2016, 08:55:06 PM »
Nothing you or I do can impact climate change even a tiny bit. Best just not to worry about it.

Offline Gooch

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2016, 11:03:45 AM »
REPUBLICANS WILL FEEL SORRY WHEN NEW YORK CITY IS COMPLETELY UNDERWATER IN 50 YEARS
Nope, they have a great track record with cities below sea level. See New Orleans.

Offline _33

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2016, 02:56:39 PM »
My favorite part was when he compared saying Obama is an Arab to questioning the science on climate change.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2016, 04:13:18 PM »
New Orleans and Louisiana at the time, controlled by . . .  Democrats.   One of whom is now in prison.




Offline ednksu

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2016, 05:53:28 PM »
My favorite part was when he compared saying Obama is an Arab to questioning the science on climate change.
It's a valid point in the grand theme of "I have these ideas, anything counter is invalid."  I mean these fucktards a booing their own candidate when he speaks the truth.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

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Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2016, 06:29:03 PM »
All of which has nothing to do with nothing.   WhackADoodle tosses strawmen like bails of hay.


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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2016, 09:41:26 PM »
My favorite part was when he compared saying Obama is an Arab to questioning the science on climate change.
It's a valid point in the grand theme of "I have these ideas, anything counter is invalid."  I mean these fucktards a booing their own candidate when he speaks the truth.

hmmmm, alrighty.

Offline ednksu

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2016, 05:47:44 AM »
All of which has nothing to do with nothing.   WhackADoodle tosses strawmen like bails of hay.
you keep saying these things and I'm not sure you know what they mean.
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Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2016, 08:01:31 AM »
New Orleans and Louisiana at the time, controlled by . . .  Democrats.   One of whom is now in prison.

Lol
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2016, 08:03:03 AM »
:lol

Offline Ptolemy

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2016, 08:46:51 AM »
In reply to the first post in this thread...

A Moral Evaluation Of The Obama Administration's Energy Policies

Alex Epstein

The energy industry is the industry that powers every other industry. To the extent energy is affordable, plentiful and reliable, human beings thrive. To the extent energy is unaffordable, scarce or unreliable, human beings suffer.

And yet in this election year, the candidates, especially the Republican candidates, have barely discussed energy. Thus, I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss my moral evaluation of this administration’s energy policies.

When we evaluate energy policies, such as President Obama’s efforts to forcibly restrict fossil fuel use and mandate solar and wind energy, it is always worth asking: Has this been tried before? And what happened when it was?

The answer is much, much milder versions of the President’s energy policy have been tried in Europe—and resulted in skyrocketing energy prices every time.

Take Germany. Over the last decade, Germany pursued the popular ideal of running on unreliable energy from solar and wind. But since unreliable energy can’t be relied upon, it has to be propped up by reliable energy–mostly fossil fuels–making the solar panels and wind turbines an unnecessary and enormous cost to the system. As a result, the average German pays 3-4 times more for electricity than the average American. It’s so bad that Germans have had to add a new term to the language: “energy poverty.”

The United States should learn from the failed German experiment; instead, our President is doubling down on it many times over. And, just as ominously, he is leading global initiatives that call for even the poorest countries to be forced to use unreliables instead of reliables. This, in a world where 3 billion people have almost no access to energy and over one billion people have no electricity.

How could this possibly be moral?

The alleged justification is that fossil fuels cause climate change and should therefore be eliminated. But this does not follow. As with anything in life, with fossil fuel’s impacts we need to look at the big picture, carefully weighing both the benefits and the costs.

And to do that, we need to clearly define what we mean by “climate change.” Because while nearly everyone agrees that more CO2 in the atmosphere causes some climate change, it makes all the difference in the world whether that change is a mild, manageable warming or a runaway, catastrophic warming.

Which is it? If we look at what has been scientifically demonstrated vs. what has been speculated, the climate impact of CO2 is mild and manageable. In the last 80 years, we have increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere from .03% to .04%, and the warming has been barely more than the natural warming that occurred in the 80 years before that, when there were virtually no CO2 emissions. From a geological perspective, both CO2 levels and temperatures are very low; there is no perfect amount of CO2 or average temperature, although higher CO2 levels do create more plant growth and higher temperatures lower mortality rates.

To be sure, many prominent scientists and organizations predict catastrophe–but this is wild speculation and nothing new. Indeed, many of today’s thought leaders have been falsely predicting catastrophe for decades. Thirty years ago, NASA climate leader James Hansen predicted that temperatures would rise by 2-4 degrees between 2000 and 2010; instead, depending on which temperature data set you consult, they rose only slightly or not at all.

Thirty years ago, President Obama’s top science advisor, John Holdren, predicted that by now we’d be approaching a billion CO2-related deaths from famine. Instead, famine has plummeted as have climate-related deaths across the board. According to data from the International Disaster Database, deaths from climate-related causes such as extreme heat, extreme cold, storms, drought and floods have decreased at a rate of 50% since the 1980s and 98% since major CO2 emissions began 80 years ago.

How is it possible that we’re safer than ever from climate?

Because while fossil fuel use has only a mild warming impact it has an enormous protecting impact. Nature doesn’t give us a stable, safe climate that we make dangerous. It gives us an ever-changing, dangerous climate that we need to make safe. And the driver behind sturdy buildings, affordable heating and air-conditioning, drought relief, and everything else that keeps us safe from climate is cheap, plentiful, reliable energy, overwhelmingly from fossil fuels.

Thus, the President’s anti-fossil fuel policies would ruin billions of lives economically and environmentally–depriving people of energy and therefore making them more vulnerable to nature’s ever-present climate danger.

Policies that cause massive, unnecessary human suffering, including increased climate vulnerability, are immoral.

A moral energy policy is one that liberates all the energy technologies, including fossil fuels, nuclear, and large-scale hydro, and lets them compete to the utmost to provide the most affordable, reliable energy for the most people.

A moral energy policy is an energy freedom policy.

Alex Epstein is founder of the Center for Industrial Progress and author of The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2016, 09:24:09 AM »
 :lol:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline ednksu

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2016, 09:37:01 AM »
JFC all of these people are trapped in a 1980s view of climate change. 
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Offline _33

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2016, 12:27:58 PM »
My favorite part was when he compared saying Obama is an Arab to questioning the science on climate change.
It's a valid point in the grand theme of "I have these ideas, anything counter is invalid."  I mean these fucktards a booing their own candidate when he speaks the truth.

I mean you could have compared them to the anti-vaxxers but I guess that probably doesn't quite make the point you were wanting to make.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2016, 09:21:17 PM »
It's so sad that whackadoodle is such a parrot.  Along with so many others.  It wouldn't surprise me to learn  whackadoodle signed the petition to ban water.

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2016, 10:17:48 AM »
Watching non-scientists try to pretend to be as smart as scientists has to be my favorite part
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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2016, 01:07:57 PM »
I like how there isn't a scientific study or scientist cited in Edna's article. These are the same delusional weirdos spreading all the anti-shazbot! nonsense.

I bet people would take climate warming man made seriously if any of these "scientific" theories ever came to fruition.

Maybe they should get back into the science of electro-shocking the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) out of each other.
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Offline ednksu

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2016, 07:01:01 PM »
My favorite part was when he compared saying Obama is an Arab to questioning the science on climate change.
It's a valid point in the grand theme of "I have these ideas, anything counter is invalid."  I mean these fucktards a booing their own candidate when he speaks the truth.

I mean you could have compared them to the anti-vaxxers but I guess that probably doesn't quite make the point you were wanting to make.
The fact that you totally miss my point is validation enough that I'm right.
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

Quote from: Kim Carnes
Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

Offline ednksu

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2016, 07:15:55 PM »
I like how there isn't a scientific study or scientist cited in Edna's article. These are the same delusional weirdos spreading all the anti-shazbot! nonsense.

I bet people would take climate warming man made seriously if any of these "scientific" theories ever came to fruition.

Maybe they should get back into the science of electro-shocking the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) out of each other.

:laugh1:
You know that the link has links to all the real studies reference right? 

And how many things do you want  scientists to be right about before you give up the oil funded pseudoscience ghost?


http://www.ted.com/talks/james_balog_time_lapse_proof_of_extreme_ice_loss?language=en
https://nsidc.org/cryosphere/sotc/iceshelves.html
Quote from: OregonHawk
KU is right on par with Notre Dame ... when it comes to adding additional conference revenue

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Beer pro tip: never drink anything other than BL, coors, pbr, maybe a few others that I'm forgetting

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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2016, 07:26:39 PM »
Scared of the weather.

Scared of a 70 year old routine practice.

Whackadoodle
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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2016, 07:27:53 PM »
Paranoid about "big oil"

What a Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)
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Re: Interesting piece on the rejection of shared science
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2016, 07:29:13 PM »
 :lol:

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