#Ranchihakku: super kawaii shokunin ranchi borogu (with bonus non-lunch content)

[Skipper44]

The only reason it was a bad idea was that the carriers were out to sea.  Even then, how else to devastate the Pacific fleet with almost zero losses?

War with America was the bad idea. The pearl harbor attack was the best way to kick it off and was ridiculously successful.

most articles find a way to mention that admiral yamamoto, the architect of the attack, was completely against war with America and predicted total defeat and disaster. But he got told to make it happen, so he did his best.

I guess I need to learn (remember) how Japan even became aggressive in the first place, how their alliance with Germany came to be.  If war with the US was inevitable it was a good idea.

The book Flyboys by James Bradley is excellent at giving a pretty good description of how insular the Japanese culture was.  There is an actual event that some believe was the cause of Japan's militarization but I don't want to spoil it if you interested in reading the book. 

Yamamoto had been to the US and seen the vast resources of the US and knew beating the US was next to impossible but the "brain trust" of Japan was a dangerous combo of ignorance, arrogance and desperation in charge of a general population with unquestioning loyalty and duty as its #1 trait.

[Kat Kid]

The only reason it was a bad idea was that the carriers were out to sea.  Even then, how else to devastate the Pacific fleet with almost zero losses?

War with America was the bad idea. The pearl harbor attack was the best way to kick it off and was ridiculously successful.

most articles find a way to mention that admiral yamamoto, the architect of the attack, was completely against war with America and predicted total defeat and disaster. But he got told to make it happen, so he did his best.

I guess I need to learn (remember) how Japan even became aggressive in the first place, how their alliance with Germany came to be.  If war with the US was inevitable it was a good idea.

The Japanese had some very strange ideas about race and culture that made them a "fit" with the Germans in their own way.  The book I want to read is the history of this philosophy and symbolism and how North Korea adopted their ideology and adapted it to Korea.

[Emo EMAW]

Might the Japs have been able to achieve a stalemate if it weren't for the bomb? 

[Kat Kid]

Might the Japs have been able to achieve a stalemate if it weren't for the bomb?

Well they "conditionally" surrendered any way, so yes.  I don't think it would've been in their interest to continue in a prolonged fight in the Pacific, but there probably would've been more concessions about keeping territory in China and the US would not have as many navy bases in the Pacific islands and Hawaii might have been much less like a tourist destination and more like a major naval outpost.

[sys]

Might the Japs have been able to achieve a stalemate if it weren't for the bomb?

Well they "conditionally" surrendered any way, so yes.  I don't think it would've been in their interest to continue in a prolonged fight in the Pacific, but there probably would've been more concessions about keeping territory in China and the US would not have as many navy bases in the Pacific islands and Hawaii might have been much less like a tourist destination and more like a major naval outpost.

they wouldn't have had much negotiating leverage.  if the us would have been reluctant to finish them with conventional forces, the soviet union would have been happy to step in.

[Kat Kid]

Might the Japs have been able to achieve a stalemate if it weren't for the bomb?

Well they "conditionally" surrendered any way, so yes.  I don't think it would've been in their interest to continue in a prolonged fight in the Pacific, but there probably would've been more concessions about keeping territory in China and the US would not have as many navy bases in the Pacific islands and Hawaii might have been much less like a tourist destination and more like a major naval outpost.

they wouldn't have had much negotiating leverage.  if the us would have been reluctant to finish them with conventional forces, the soviet union would have been happy to step in.

I doubt the USSR would've worked that hard to establish a front on the other side of China.  They didn't have the air force or the Navy to threaten Japan.  If we assume they don't develop the bomb before we did or were as free to use it as we did.

[Emo EMAW]

What does the USSR stand to gain by taking over Japan?  Access to bamboo or something?

[star seed 7]

As a semi-related question, are there any noticeable effects on the culture from being on the receiving end of the bombs? I've seen some theories that Japanese sexual fetishes stem from the shame/shock/fallout of those events and ww2 atrocities in general. Same with germans and poop.

[sys]

I doubt the USSR would've worked that hard to establish a front on the other side of China.  They didn't have the air force or the Navy to threaten Japan.  If we assume they don't develop the bomb before we did or were as free to use it as we did.

by then japan's air force and navy were already pretty much finished.

[Emo EMAW]

Goddamnit lib

[Skipper44]

another book that somewhat touches on this subject is the Flags of our Father's book and it made the argument that the "island hopping" battles like Iwo Jima showed US decision makers that Japan would never surrender and they might really do the every man, woman and child thing.  And the Japanese pretty much confirmed it by not surrendering after Hiroshima.

[sys]

I doubt the USSR would've worked that hard to establish a front on the other side of China.  They didn't have the air force or the Navy to threaten Japan.

What does the USSR stand to gain by taking over Japan?  Access to bamboo or something?

http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/05/stalin_japan_hiroshima_occupation_hokkaido/

[puniraptor]

Might the Japs have been able to achieve a stalemate if it weren't for the bomb?

No way, they were already militarily defeated. The best hope at the START of the war was a stalemate.

A blockade of the home islands would have starved them into surrender in a year or two.

But an extended siege doesn't demonstrate to the world your new superweapon.

[puniraptor]

As a semi-related question, are there any noticeable effects on the culture from being on the receiving end of the bombs? I've seen some theories that Japanese sexual fetishes stem from the shame/shock/fallout of those events and ww2 atrocities in general. Same with germans and poop.

Probably, but they were into some weird crap long before the bomb.

There's like 12th century woodcarvings of tentacle sex.

[puniraptor]

The only reason it was a bad idea was that the carriers were out to sea.  Even then, how else to devastate the Pacific fleet with almost zero losses?

War with America was the bad idea. The pearl harbor attack was the best way to kick it off and was ridiculously successful.

most articles find a way to mention that admiral yamamoto, the architect of the attack, was completely against war with America and predicted total defeat and disaster. But he got told to make it happen, so he did his best.

I guess I need to learn (remember) how Japan even became aggressive in the first place, how their alliance with Germany came to be.  If war with the US was inevitable it was a good idea.

The book Flyboys by James Bradley is excellent at giving a pretty good description of how insular the Japanese culture was.  There is an actual event that some believe was the cause of Japan's militarization but I don't want to spoil it if you interested in reading the book. 

Imperial Japan aspired to join the big dogs and be a global empire like America, Great Britain, and Germany.

I think the axis pact was meant to act as deterrence to America to let Japan grow their SE Asian empire.

[Tobias]

There's like 12th century woodcarvings of tentacle sex.

[Mrs. Gooch]

There's like 12th century woodcarvings of tentacle sex.

Sounds like the book I read by Octavia Butler.

[sys]

Octavia Butler.

underrated author.

[puniraptor]

More data on the tissue pants:



It actually dispenses tissues from the fly AND comes loaded with tissues

[puniraptor]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/world/what-in-the-world/japan-inemuri-public-sleeping.html?module=WatchingPortal&region=c-column-middle-span-region&pgType=Homepage&action=click&mediaId=thumb_square&state=standard&contentPlacement=2&version=internal&contentCollection=www.nytimes.com&contentId=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F12%2F16%2Fworld%2Fwhat-in-the-world%2Fjapan-inemuri-public-sleeping.html&eventName=Watching-article-click

puni:  Can you tell me if this is a thing at your office and cross post to the hilarious things at work thread?

While common other places, it's not really a thing at our office. I think you would get in trouble for sleeping on the job. However, the Nihonjin snarf their lunch in like 5 minutes and sleep the rest of their lunch break. They all have eye masks and footrests an just kick back in their desk chair. One guy has an alarm clock that wakes everyone at the end of lunch.

When I first started I went to talk to someone during their lunch break about a work thing but later got a talking to from management about how they aren't to be disturbed.

[Mrs. Gooch]

Puni bought the tissue underwear?

[Emo EMAW]

Last night I watched Tora Tora Tora.  It seemed to imply the J Army was operating independently of the larger J govt and because of their insistence to continue operations in China they forced the US into blocking trade and that precipitated the action by the J Navy.

[wetwillie]

Puni this looks really fun


https://twitter.com/upnorthspartan/status/810304104941514752

[Trim]

[Kat Kid]

That is amazing


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