Author Topic: Disney World (Read 73099 times)

star seed 7 · « **Reply #250 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:15:03 AM »

Now imagine that alligator shot that kid and like 30 other kids.

Emo EMAW · « **Reply #251 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:16:50 AM »

Absolutely Disney is negligent. That's not even debatable.

Mrs. Gooch · « **Reply #252 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:19:03 AM »

Quote from: libliblibliblibliblib on June 17, 2016, 10:15:03 AM

Now imagine that alligator shot that kid and like 30 other kids.

Was it a Muslim alligator or a white alligator?

mocat · « **Reply #253 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:19:25 AM »

Quote from: libliblibliblibliblib on June 17, 2016, 10:15:03 AM

Now imagine that alligator shot that kid and like 30 other kids.

issue each family its own alligator for protection against other alligators

mocat · « **Reply #254 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:20:07 AM »

JUDGE GATOR

Emo EMAW · « **Reply #255 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:20:49 AM »

Quote from: Mrs. Gooch on June 17, 2016, 10:19:03 AM

Quote from: libliblibliblibliblib on June 17, 2016, 10:15:03 AM
Now imagine that alligator shot that kid and like 30 other kids.

Was it a Muslim alligator or a white alligator?

homosexual gator

EMAWican · « **Reply #256 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:25:59 AM »

I can't believe that we have thousand upon thousand of miles of sandy beaches directly on the SCARY OCEAN that don't have signs for sharks.

EMAWican · « **Reply #257 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:30:07 AM »

Disney sure as crap better put up signs for snakes, snappers, alligators, anacondas, scorpions, etc. while they're at it.

Mrs. Gooch · « **Reply #258 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:35:18 AM »

Quote from: EMAWican on June 17, 2016, 10:30:07 AM

Disney sure as crap better put up signs for snakes, snappers, alligators, anacondas, scorpions, etc. while they're at it.

Maybe just one sign for "dangerous animals".

Emo EMAW · « **Reply #259 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:36:15 AM »

Disney (and others) employ lifeguards. Wouldn't it be cheaper just to put up signs that you could drown? Or perhaps they are aware they accept some liability by offering a place and accepting money for access to a place where people could swim and therefore drown?

mocat · « **Reply #260 on:** June 17, 2016, 10:58:11 AM »

i mean in all seriousness, they don't really need to put up any signs NOW, do they?

steve dave · « **Reply #261 on:** June 17, 2016, 11:21:11 AM »

Quote from: EMAWican on June 17, 2016, 10:25:59 AM

I can't believe that we have thousand upon thousand of miles of sandy beaches directly on the SCARY OCEAN that don't have signs for sharks.

yeah, that's the issue. I can see from each side and it's not as clear cut as some are acting. how many millions (billions?) of people have walked on their beaches? and I assume this is the first alligator attack. that's a pretty low hit ratio. you can't risk engineer everything to perfection. and is a florida jury going to set some new precedent that every property owner is now responsible for every wild animal that lives nearby if they don't completely fence them off from the guests? is every rental property, lodge, or resort negligent if one of their visitors is eaten/bitten by a bear/cougar/snake/shark/crocodile/lion/etc. that lives in the area? I know a little bit about disney's risk engineering and they are widely considered to be the best in the business. I think statistics will support that.

Mrs. Gooch · « **Reply #262 on:** June 17, 2016, 11:27:21 AM »

Quote from: steve dave on June 17, 2016, 11:21:11 AM

Quote from: EMAWican on June 17, 2016, 10:25:59 AM
I can't believe that we have thousand upon thousand of miles of sandy beaches directly on the SCARY OCEAN that don't have signs for sharks.

yeah, that's the issue. I can see from each side and it's not as clear cut as some are acting. how many millions (billions?) of people have walked on their beaches? and I assume this is the first alligator attack. that's a pretty low hit ratio. you can't risk engineer everything to perfection. and is a florida jury going to set some new precedent that every property owner is now responsible for every wild animal that lives nearby if they don't completely fence them off from the guests? is every rental property, lodge, or resort negligent if one of their visitors is eaten/bitten by a bear/cougar/snake/shark/crocodile/lion/etc. that lives in the area? I know a little bit about disney's risk engineering and they are widely considered to be the best in the business. I think statistics will support that.

I thought the issue was more that Disney had been told before that the alligators were there and a likely danger....not that an unexpected animal just wandered onto their property and that it is totally surprising that one wandered up there.

ChiComCat · « **Reply #263 on:** June 17, 2016, 11:31:45 AM »

The danger couldn't have been too likely if it happened to one kid out of millions that visit yearly

steve dave · « **Reply #264 on:** June 17, 2016, 11:42:10 AM »

Quote from: Mrs. Gooch on June 17, 2016, 11:27:21 AM

Quote from: steve dave on June 17, 2016, 11:21:11 AM
Quote from: EMAWican on June 17, 2016, 10:25:59 AM
I can't believe that we have thousand upon thousand of miles of sandy beaches directly on the SCARY OCEAN that don't have signs for sharks.

yeah, that's the issue. I can see from each side and it's not as clear cut as some are acting. how many millions (billions?) of people have walked on their beaches? and I assume this is the first alligator attack. that's a pretty low hit ratio. you can't risk engineer everything to perfection. and is a florida jury going to set some new precedent that every property owner is now responsible for every wild animal that lives nearby if they don't completely fence them off from the guests? is every rental property, lodge, or resort negligent if one of their visitors is eaten/bitten by a bear/cougar/snake/shark/crocodile/lion/etc. that lives in the area? I know a little bit about disney's risk engineering and they are widely considered to be the best in the business. I think statistics will support that.

I thought the issue was more that Disney had been told before that the alligators were there and a likely danger....not that an unexpected animal just wandered onto their property and that it is totally surprising that one wandered up there.

well there's more than one single issue. disney will have a massive amount of documentation on what they did to respond to the being "told before that the alligators were there and a likely danger". it's what their response was to the information and if that response was reasonable for what could be expected of them that will determine if they were negligent. a 1:100,000,000 (no idea on the second number but it's huge) chance of a fatal alligator attack occurring on their property based on whatever controls they had in place may be the best that could be expected of them. I'm not arguing that it was at all, just that that is what will be looked at if it were to go to court.

chum1 · « **Reply #265 on:** June 17, 2016, 12:33:24 PM »

I like to think that they weren't negligent, but are liable. Is that a legal possibility? Because sometimes you just have to pay for crap even when it truly isn't your fault.

Pete · « **Reply #266 on:** June 17, 2016, 12:44:16 PM »

Quote from: chum1 on June 17, 2016, 12:33:24 PM

I like to think that they weren't negligent, but are liable. Is that a legal possibility? Because sometimes you just have to pay for crap even when it truly isn't your fault.

I think building a man made beach, and calling the resort a beach club, is sort of risky in alligator infested waters.

Emo EMAW · « **Reply #267 on:** June 17, 2016, 01:13:42 PM »

This is why they have insurance folks.

steve dave · « **Reply #268 on:** June 17, 2016, 01:20:40 PM »

Quote from: Emo EMAW on June 17, 2016, 01:13:42 PM

This is why they have insurance folks.

they actually have two captives

Cartierfor3 · « **Reply #269 on:** June 17, 2016, 01:22:28 PM »

Quote from: steve dave on June 17, 2016, 07:37:45 AM

yeah, the no swimming signs have nothing to do with alligators, just pointing out they are already there. I don't think the amoeba thing is a part of it at all either. they just don't have lifeguards on those beaches. there are alligators all over the resorts. you see them in the water filled areas under bridges, etc. everywhere you go. if you see a big body of water that's not a pool you can look close and find an alligator floating there. I've never seen one close to 7 feet though. usually just a couple feet long. lil sd loves waiting for boats and pointing out turtles and alligators and fish and stuff.

Most of the initial stories mention a lifeguard. If even splashing in a few inches of water was dangerous, shouldn't the lifeguard have warned the parents to stop? He's a disney employee who's job is beach safety so I do think there is some level of disney liability. Its not like a backwoods river. Its a fake beach with a lifeguard. I can understand why the parents had no inkling of danger.

Quote

A lifeguard on duty was unable to help, possibly because he was too far away.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/15/482130882/alligator-grabs-2-year-old-near-disneys-grand-floridian-resort

Mikeyis4dcats · « **Reply #270 on:** June 17, 2016, 01:22:57 PM »

mocat · « **Reply #271 on:** June 17, 2016, 01:23:30 PM »

the lifeguard may have been too far away because he or she may have been lifeguard'ing an actual pool elsewhere

steve dave · « **Reply #272 on:** June 17, 2016, 01:24:09 PM »

Quote from: Cartierfor3 on June 17, 2016, 01:22:28 PM

Quote from: steve dave on June 17, 2016, 07:37:45 AM
yeah, the no swimming signs have nothing to do with alligators, just pointing out they are already there. I don't think the amoeba thing is a part of it at all either. they just don't have lifeguards on those beaches. there are alligators all over the resorts. you see them in the water filled areas under bridges, etc. everywhere you go. if you see a big body of water that's not a pool you can look close and find an alligator floating there. I've never seen one close to 7 feet though. usually just a couple feet long. lil sd loves waiting for boats and pointing out turtles and alligators and fish and stuff.

Most of the initial stories mention a lifeguard. If even splashing in a few inches of water was dangerous, shouldn't the lifeguard have warned the parents to stop? He's a disney employee who's job is beach safety so I do think there is some level of disney liability. Its not like a backwoods river. Its a fake beach with a lifeguard. I can understand why the parents had no inkling of danger.

Quote
A lifeguard on duty was unable to help, possibly because he was too far away.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/06/15/482130882/alligator-grabs-2-year-old-near-disneys-grand-floridian-resort

there is no lifeguard on any of their beaches. the lifeguard was from the pool.

Cartierfor3 · « **Reply #273 on:** June 17, 2016, 01:25:05 PM »

that makes more sense. the picture in my head all week has been some baywatch chair on a beach

Cartierfor3 · « **Reply #274 on:** June 17, 2016, 01:29:36 PM »

I mean, at some level, we have to acknowledge that life is very fragile and there isn't always a person or entity that is the culprit or bad guy. People dying is a part of life. I don't really care either way what happens with the lawsuit or whatever, but the takeaway should be how little of our lives we are actually in control of.