White is the New Black

[michigancat]

Yeah, she should sue them!

[puniraptor]

It's weird and funny because all she had to do was say "I never intended to deceive anyone, my record of advocacy speaks for itself." And it would have been over. Instead she doubled and tripled down and jumped every shark. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

It's weird and funny because all she had to do was say "I never intended to deceive anyone, my record of advocacy speaks for itself." And it would have been over. Instead she doubled and tripled down and jumped every shark.

That would not have saved her - just made it a little less embarrassing.

[Rage Against the McKee]

She should be fired. I mean, regardless of what her race is and how she identifies, she lied about everything repeatedly and her job is advocating the advancement of black people. She can't effectively perform that duty any longer, even if she was effective at it in the past.

[MakeItRain]

It does put the "you are whatever _______ you think you are" crowd in a kinda funny spot though. I'd appreciate a ruling from the ge black caucus - is this any different than pretending to be a woman?

i dunno who you mean by the ge black caucus, but i'd be more interested in seeing the mental gymnastics (i admit, i'm anticipating some, it's possible none would materialize) from any of the posters that think that jenner's actions were brave or heroic.

Not sure who would think that. Maybe Edna?

i think there were a lot in the jenner award thread.  don't remember individual posters, but it seemed to me like majority opinion.

I really shouldn't have opened this thread, that being said...

You really don't know the difference between someone struggling with gender identity their entire life and making a decision in their mid 60's to very publicly live as a different gender than she was identified by for her entire life and someone who just decided to be black for shits and giggles? Dolezal sued Howard University as a freaking adult because she felt she was discriminated against for being white. Then just a few years earlier made false hate crime claims as a "black" person. GMAFB with acting like these two are anything alike, shame on you.

Also you certainly know the difference between brave and heroic right? I hope you're trolling, it would hurt my heart to have to call you stupid.

[MakeItRain]

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

not to jump immediately to the most recent hackneyed news event - but a logical extension of that statement would be that the condition of being transgender is a psychological disease.

Do you seriously not know that people who transition are encouraged to seek psychological help and most doctors in America that perform reassignment surgery won't do it until the patient has had some help?

Maybe you should read a bit more before you keep opening your mouth about this

[MakeItRain]

has it been discussed how mumped up her parents were/are? they're like determined to bring her down.

Yeah, horrible parents

Disagree, actually this is absolutely the best thing that could happen to her. I hope that if one of my daughters are living a crazy ass lie to this extent that if I didn't have the courage to do what needs to be done to save her someone else does. You as a parent can't just sit back and watch this crap happen. Hopefully this forces her to deal with whatever is happening there and she reconciles with her family before her parents pass on.

[MakeItRain]

NAACP: [couched politically correct drivel. . . "respect" . . . noncommittal white wash . . . "privacy" . . .evaluating] and she's fired.

Michigancat: But look,  [couched politically correct drivel. . . "respect" . . . noncommittal white wash . . . "privacy" . . .evaluating]

I don't even know why I'm bothering to address this with you but because I'm bored...

Let's say she was absolutely unceremoniously fired, thrown out on her ass. I mean whether she was or was not is unnecessary to the conversation. She didn't get fired because she's white, she got fired because her job is in the public sector where she has to interact with people and do things like raise money and she very publicly has been outed as, at best, living a lie. The nature of what this incident has become has made it extremely difficult for her to do her job effectively. It's no different that Notre Dame firing George O'Leary. His lie didn't prevent him from knowing how to coach football but them employing a publicly known liar would have done untold damage to Notre Dame and he absolutely would have gotten crushed on the recruiting trail.

By all means continue your predictable buffoonery, ignore the obvious to demonize the NAACP for picking on this poor hapless white woman.

[MakeItRain]

It's weird and funny because all she had to do was say "I never intended to deceive anyone, my record of advocacy speaks for itself." And it would have been over. Instead she doubled and tripled down and jumped every shark.

I heard a woman who Dolezal had worked with that said that she did wonderful things for the community and she would always be grateful for that and she could have done everything she did without lying to everyone she was trying to help. I hope she continues to do the advocacy work after she gets her life straightened out.

[MakeItRain]

The tip off should have been that if she was really black, she would have been the first black that did in fact crack. Holy crap, she's the oldest looking 37 in the history of planet earth. Stay out of the rough ridin' sun lady, she's gonna get skin cancer like yesterday.

This freak's propensity to attempt to steal people's children from them is also extremely problematic and under-reported.

[michigancat]

has it been discussed how mumped up her parents were/are? they're like determined to bring her down.

Yeah, horrible parents

Disagree, actually this is absolutely the best thing that could happen to her. I hope that if one of my daughters are living a crazy ass lie to this extent that if I didn't have the courage to do what needs to be done to save her someone else does. You as a parent can't just sit back and watch this crap happen. Hopefully this forces her to deal with whatever is happening there and she reconciles with her family before her parents pass on.

Well, it seems like they kind of sat back and watched this happen for like 15 years and are now disputing the color of crayons she used as a kid via tmz. Best thing that could have happened to her.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

So many words, so little substance. MIR, might get the least substance per word of any person on the internet.  "Don't you know that [black blah blah my pov] is fact, and that you are a horrible person for saying otherwise [blah blah blah tangential attacks and allusions to social studies]" "Dolezal is a nut, oscar Jenner is totally normal"

GMAFB, do you have any cognitive capabilities? 

[Mrs. Gooch]

Oh, by the way, she's bisexual too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/17/rachel-dolezal-bisexual_n_7606492.html?ir=Black+Voices&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000047

[renocat]

I find it heartening in the mist of tragedy in Charleston how people are coming together around their common faith in Christ.  The president and the National media seek to drive a wedge between races. They and the Al Sharptons of the world foster a culture of victimization.  This girl probably did have a deep seated need to help disadvantaged folk, and thought she had to be black or she could not help.  Somewhere along the line the squirrel in her brain died.  She has hurt the coming together of races.  Many white kids adopt the element of urban minority culture without claiming to be black physically, in spirit yes.   SC is a good example of how all can live together.

[OK_Cat]

SC is a good example of how all can live together.

LOL wut

[Mrs. Gooch]

has it been discussed how mumped up her parents were/are? they're like determined to bring her down.

Her parents aren't necessarily horrible for trying to out her, but they still might be horrible parents - or maybe her brother is a liar.  I can't tell what is true and what isn't.

https://homeschoolersanonymous.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/dolezal3.pdf

They may be a more mumped up version of the Duggars...basically super fundamentalist Christian, abusive child raising techniques, large family (although they adopted to get there)....and a son who allegedly sexually abused a younger sibling.
And supposedly they wouldn't help Rachel out of her abusive marriage. Or maybe the brother is making all of this up to get out of his charges?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

You really don't know the difference between someone struggling with gender identity their entire life and making a decision in their mid 60's to very publicly live as a different gender than she was identified by for her entire life and someone who just decided to be black for shits and giggles? Dolezal sued Howard University as a freaking adult because she felt she was discriminated against for being white. Then just a few years earlier made false hate crime claims as a "black" person. GMAFB with acting like these two are anything alike, shame on you.

Also you certainly know the difference between brave and heroic right? I hope you're trolling, it would hurt my heart to have to call you stupid.

I think you may be deliberately misconstruing facts to try to bolster your POV. Rachel did not just decide to be black "for shits and giggles." She chose to attend historically black Howard University because she is quite clearly a transracial. She was admitted largely because of the folio of traditional African art she submitted with her application. While there, she was discriminated against because she was a black person trapped in a white's body. That's why she sued for discrimination. It would hurt my heart to think you can't understand the pernicious effect of racial and transracial discrimination.

And yes, it appears that Rachel did make up a few hate crimes, but she wouldn't be the first black person to do so. I hardly think that should disqualify her from being black, do you?
http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/03/racist-dorm-door-writing-was-hoax-grand-valley-state-u-police-say/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/08/the_black_st_peters_prep_student_who_received_racist_text_during_his_run_for_student_council_sent_th.html#incart_m-rpt-1
http://wweek.com/portland/article-3799-the_perfect_victim.html
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19980620&slug=2757116
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-04-27/news/0504270153_1_president-greg-waybright-alicia-hardin-american-college-personnel-association
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/nyregion/24columbia.html?_r=0

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

not to jump immediately to the most recent hackneyed news event - but a logical extension of that statement would be that the condition of being transgender is a psychological disease.

Do you seriously not know that people who transition are encouraged to seek psychological help and most doctors in America that perform reassignment surgery won't do it until the patient has had some help?

Maybe you should read a bit more before you keep opening your mouth about this

Ohhhhhh, so now trans-sexual/gender/vestite/racial people are just screwed up in the head? Man, that really hurts my heart to hear such bigotry. You know, until recently, we considered homosexuality a mental disorder, too. I bet you probably think they can just "pray it away" huh? This is the new normal, MIR. Thank goodness younger generations are more accepting than the older, bigotted folks. You'll all die off eventually.

[MakeItRain]

You really don't know the difference between someone struggling with gender identity their entire life and making a decision in their mid 60's to very publicly live as a different gender than she was identified by for her entire life and someone who just decided to be black for shits and giggles? Dolezal sued Howard University as a freaking adult because she felt she was discriminated against for being white. Then just a few years earlier made false hate crime claims as a "black" person. GMAFB with acting like these two are anything alike, shame on you.

Also you certainly know the difference between brave and heroic right? I hope you're trolling, it would hurt my heart to have to call you stupid.

I think you may be deliberately misconstruing facts to try to bolster your POV. Rachel did not just decide to be black "for shits and giggles." She chose to attend historically black Howard University because she is quite clearly a transracial. She was admitted largely because of the folio of traditional African art she submitted with her application. While there, she was discriminated against because she was a black person trapped in a white's body. That's why she sued for discrimination. It would hurt my heart to think you can't understand the pernicious effect of racial and transracial discrimination.

And yes, it appears that Rachel did make up a few hate crimes, but she wouldn't be the first black person to do so. I hardly think that should disqualify her from being black, do you?
http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/03/racist-dorm-door-writing-was-hoax-grand-valley-state-u-police-say/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tawana_Brawley_rape_allegations
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2013/08/the_black_st_peters_prep_student_who_received_racist_text_during_his_run_for_student_council_sent_th.html#incart_m-rpt-1
http://wweek.com/portland/article-3799-the_perfect_victim.html
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19980620&slug=2757116
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-04-27/news/0504270153_1_president-greg-waybright-alicia-hardin-american-college-personnel-association
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/nyregion/24columbia.html?_r=0

Chill KSUW. I'm not sure how you read that as a defense of that woman, I was taking exception to the Caitlin Jenner comparison.

[MakeItRain]

So many words, so little substance. MIR, might get the least substance per word of any person on the internet.  "Don't you know that [black blah blah my pov] is fact, and that you are a horrible person for saying otherwise [blah blah blah tangential attacks and allusions to social studies]" "Dolezal is a nut, oscar Jenner is totally normal"

GMAFB, do you have any cognitive capabilities?

 

[MakeItRain]

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

not to jump immediately to the most recent hackneyed news event - but a logical extension of that statement would be that the condition of being transgender is a psychological disease.

Do you seriously not know that people who transition are encouraged to seek psychological help and most doctors in America that perform reassignment surgery won't do it until the patient has had some help?

Maybe you should read a bit more before you keep opening your mouth about this

Ohhhhhh, so now trans-sexual/gender/vestite/racial people are just screwed up in the head? Man, that really hurts my heart to hear such bigotry. You know, until recently, we considered homosexuality a mental disorder, too. I bet you probably think they can just "pray it away" huh? This is the new normal, MIR. Thank goodness younger generations are more accepting than the older, bigotted folks. You'll all die off eventually.

Why are you always looking for a fight? There is literally no way possible someone attempting to have a rational conversation would have interpreted that post the way that you did. All I stated there is that many doctors that perform gender reassignment surgery require an evaluation before they will do the surgery, there are also insurers like Aetna that cover the surgery but also require the evaluations. I stated a fact. At no point did I comment on the mental faculties of transgendered people.

Feel free to respond but I'm done replying to you and fed about this topic if you have to fabricate things to argue about. If you want to discuss things I actually said than let's do that but I'm guessing you don't. Outside of what I said about her parents I really don't know what I said that anyone can disagree with.

[nicname]

How TF has Sammy Sosa not made an appearance in this thread yet?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

not to jump immediately to the most recent hackneyed news event - but a logical extension of that statement would be that the condition of being transgender is a psychological disease.

Do you seriously not know that people who transition are encouraged to seek psychological help and most doctors in America that perform reassignment surgery won't do it until the patient has had some help?

Maybe you should read a bit more before you keep opening your mouth about this

Ohhhhhh, so now trans-sexual/gender/vestite/racial people are just screwed up in the head? Man, that really hurts my heart to hear such bigotry. You know, until recently, we considered homosexuality a mental disorder, too. I bet you probably think they can just "pray it away" huh? This is the new normal, MIR. Thank goodness younger generations are more accepting than the older, bigotted folks. You'll all die off eventually.

Why are you always looking for a fight? There is literally no way possible someone attempting to have a rational conversation would have interpreted that post the way that you did. All I stated there is that many doctors that perform gender reassignment surgery require an evaluation before they will do the surgery, there are also insurers like Aetna that cover the surgery but also require the evaluations. I stated a fact. At no point did I comment on the mental faculties of transgendered people.

Feel free to respond but I'm done replying to you and fed about this topic if you have to fabricate things to argue about. If you want to discuss things I actually said than let's do that but I'm guessing you don't. Outside of what I said about her parents I really don't know what I said that anyone can disagree with.

Ok, sorry, I'm just playing around. It's just amusing to me how this story has really put the "no judgment, new normal" crowd in a bit of pickle. If you're a trans______, you've got mental problems. Doesn't mean we should be nasty to them, but let's not kid ourselves about this being normal, rational behavior. But that's just what's coming down the road. In another decade it'll be considered bigotted to recommend psychiatric treatment for these folks.

[MakeItRain]

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

not to jump immediately to the most recent hackneyed news event - but a logical extension of that statement would be that the condition of being transgender is a psychological disease.

Do you seriously not know that people who transition are encouraged to seek psychological help and most doctors in America that perform reassignment surgery won't do it until the patient has had some help?

Maybe you should read a bit more before you keep opening your mouth about this

Ohhhhhh, so now trans-sexual/gender/vestite/racial people are just screwed up in the head? Man, that really hurts my heart to hear such bigotry. You know, until recently, we considered homosexuality a mental disorder, too. I bet you probably think they can just "pray it away" huh? This is the new normal, MIR. Thank goodness younger generations are more accepting than the older, bigotted folks. You'll all die off eventually.

Why are you always looking for a fight? There is literally no way possible someone attempting to have a rational conversation would have interpreted that post the way that you did. All I stated there is that many doctors that perform gender reassignment surgery require an evaluation before they will do the surgery, there are also insurers like Aetna that cover the surgery but also require the evaluations. I stated a fact. At no point did I comment on the mental faculties of transgendered people.

Feel free to respond but I'm done replying to you and fed about this topic if you have to fabricate things to argue about. If you want to discuss things I actually said than let's do that but I'm guessing you don't. Outside of what I said about her parents I really don't know what I said that anyone can disagree with.

Ok, sorry, I'm just playing around. It's just amusing to me how this story has really put the "no judgment, new normal" crowd in a bit of pickle. If you're a trans______, you've got mental problems. Doesn't mean we should be nasty to them, but let's not kid ourselves about this being normal, rational behavior. But that's just what's coming down the road. In another decade it'll be considered bigotted to recommend psychiatric treatment for these folks.

I'm not transgendered so I can't speak with absolution here but I think it's helpful for a trans person to seek help because they have lived life as they know it repressing a large part of who they are, hiding from society, family, friends, and to an extent themselves. Telling society that you as you know me isn't the full picture, I would imagine comes with a very heavy burden, that's why it's probably a good idea to get some help.

Dolezal may not have a diagnosis either. Is pathological liar a clinical diagnosis?

[Mrs. Gooch]

Dolezal may not have a diagnosis either. Is pathological liar a clinical diagnosis?

Pathological lying is not officially recognized as a disorder but can be a symptom of other disorders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_lying