White is the New Black

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think it's great, too. The lady should probably get psychiatric help.

[sys]

The lady should probably get psychiatric help.

should all people that desire to be something they are not get psychiatric help?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Coming soon to a school near you? Actually, I'd like to think no, but to the extent there is a culture war this is the kind of crap we have to be on the lookout for. http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/06/17/italian-families-protest-forced-cross-dressing-of-schoolchildren/

[wetwillie]

She must hate the crap out of her parents

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

The lady should probably get psychiatric help.

should all people that desire to be something they are not get psychiatric help?

Not to distract from the very interesting debate you're trying to raise - and it is interesting...

  BUT ZOMG THERE'S A SEXTAPE!!!!!!!!!! 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3127173/Rachel-Dolezal-SEX-TAPE-ex-husband-forced-perform-sex-acts-camera-against-claimed-court-papers.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus

[Rage Against the McKee]

The lady should probably get psychiatric help.

should all people that desire to be something they are not get psychiatric help?

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

[sys]

BUT ZOMG THERE'S A SEXTAPE!!!!!!!!!! 

 

shitty american newspapers should write more like this.

The frizzy-haired faker demanded a divorce... His former flame furthermore accused him...

[sys]

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

not to jump immediately to the most recent hackneyed news event - but a logical extension of that statement would be that the condition of being transgender is a psychological disease.

[ChiComCat]

What a ridiculous amazing story.

A big difference between Jenner and Dolezal is that one is blatantly lying. 

There is also science that could support gender identity differences being real and nothing that supports racial identity differences existing but I know how some political parties hate science.

[sys]

There is also science that could support gender identity differences being real and nothing that supports racial identity differences existing.

what does this mean?

[Mrs. Gooch]

In 2002 she sued for discrimination for being white, so when did her race actually change?

[ChiComCat]

There is also science that could support gender identity differences being real and nothing that supports racial identity differences existing.

what does this mean?

There is scientific studies that show a difference in the brains of males/females.  Given that this difference exists, it is possible that someone could be born a man that identifies as a female.  I'm not sure that they have studied transgendered people's brains to show a link or not and really don't care to research it.  To me it is the same as homosexuality which I believe they are physiologically attracted to a certain gender and they do not choose.  Transgender people are physiologically the opposite of what they were born as and do not choose.

Meanwhile, there is not scientific evidence that shows a black person's brain is different from a white person's brain.  A person would be making a choice in Dolezal's case.

[sys]

a.  if true (biol one sex with brain characters of other sex, obviously brain diffs btwn sexes is true) and is a prevalent feature of transgender persons, that very much argues that the condition of transgender is a disease.

b.  it is not necessary that there be any racial difference in brain characters in order for a person to believe themselves to be of a race that they are not.  it is only necessary that 1) race be a component of a person's identity, and 2) that it is possible for there to be discordance between what others consider to be your race and what you believe it to be.  whether you consider the font of that discord to be subject to voluntary control or not is not particularly relevant to the consideration of whether it is possible for someone to believe themselves to be a race that is not the same as the race society believes them to be (i'm being a little careful with language, since race, as constructed in the us, does not align completely with groups of distinct genetic lineages; however, in most cases the difference is probably not material).

[Rage Against the McKee]

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

not to jump immediately to the most recent hackneyed news event - but a logical extension of that statement would be that the condition of being transgender is a psychological disease.

Transgender people should seek psychiatric help as well. More than 40% of them attempt suicide.

[ChiComCat]

I don't think someone can choose race just as they can't choose gender identity or sexuality.  Science shows that there can be a disconnect between sexuality and gender.  Science doesn't justify the same disconnect on race for me. 

As far as this particular case goes, Dolezal has consistently lied about her upbringing which to me shows that she doesn't really believe it is something that you can choose. 

The argument for classifying transgender as a disease is for other people.  I wouldn't want to classify it as such because of the negative connotations but the definition may say otherwise.

[8manpick]

All people who believe they are something they are not, to the point where they don't even believe their own birth certificate probably should.

not to jump immediately to the most recent hackneyed news event - but a logical extension of that statement would be that the condition of being transgender is a psychological disease.

I mean, believing you are the opposite gender that you physiologically are seems like a psychological disease to me

[star seed 7]

I don't think someone can choose race just as they can't choose gender identity or sexuality.  Science shows that there can be a disconnect between sexuality and gender.  Science doesn't justify the same disconnect on race for me. 

As far as this particular case goes, Dolezal has consistently lied about her upbringing which to me shows that she doesn't really believe it is something that you can choose. 

The argument for classifying transgender as a disease is for other people.  I wouldn't want to classify it as such because of the negative connotations but the definition may say otherwise.

That is looking at race as a skin color only. In The bigger picture race includes cultural aspects.

[CNS]

Why should anyone GAF about this?  If she was good at her job and represented the org the way it wanted to be represented, who cares?  I am assuming this was just brought up by someone who wanted one of the positions she held. 

I mean, I am not defending anything.  I don't care enough to get the detail.  Why should I care about this?  I mean, there are plenty of ppl that adopt the culture of others. 

[Spracne]

I don't have an issue with people wanting to be something that they are not.  That's their business, as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights.  However, if she willfully misled others for material gain, then there are legal and ethical issues to be addressed in order to protect the public interest.  Props to her for trying to shift the discussion away from concrete issues like fraud to abstract issues like identity. 

[CNS]

Fraud seems to be the only real thing that could be at play here, other than stupidity, novelty, and her personal embarrassment. 

It seems like there are very few things that could be proven, without a doubt, that she received as benefit due to her falsifying race.

[star seed 7]

Lots of people lie about their past like she did and it's maybe not so ethical, but fairly harmless

[CNS]

Lots of people lie about their past like she did and it's maybe not so ethical, but fairly harmless

If this was walmart, garmin, etc, it wouldn't even be an ethical issue(unless they have some hiring practices targeting minorities), it would just be rough ridin' weird, which is what it is here, too.

[Spracne]

Right.  I haven't seen a lot of hard evidence that proves she intentionally lied, but in any case if the NAACP supports her, then a fraud charge would not stick.  They could easily argue that the misrepresentation of race was not material, or that they did not suffer injury as a result, or that they did not rely on the truth of her misrepresentation in hiring her.  It would actually be pretty funny for an organization to admit under oath that had they known she was white, they wouldn't have hired her. 

[ChiComCat]

The biggest issue I have is the lying, which was done for material gain, and the comparisons to transgender.  I think she is purposefully muddying the waters to avoid penalties, or just looking like a piece of crap in general, and it hurts other social groups with more legitimate issues.

Right.  I haven't seen a lot of hard evidence that proves she intentionally lied, but in any case if the NAACP supports her, then a fraud charge would not stick.  They could easily argue that the misrepresentation of race was not material, or that they did not suffer injury as a result, or that they did not rely on the truth of her misrepresentation in hiring her.  It would actually be pretty funny for an organization to admit under oath that had they known she was white, they wouldn't have hired her. 

She told people some black guy was her dad.  Now she says he was a "father figure."  She told her brother to STFU about her being white when he visited.  I think I read she checked untrue boxes on race on applications.

Regardless, I would love to see that trial.

[Mrs. Gooch]

That lady is right about one thing - the term African-American. You can be black and not consider yourself African-American and you can be African-American without being black.

She is neither.