Author Topic: Let's cut to the chase  (Read 8449 times)

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Offline #LIFE

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Let's cut to the chase
« on: April 10, 2015, 04:37:21 PM »
We read a lot of posts that try to equate the player mutiny, which happened under Coach Martin, to the transfers taking place this year.  We are asked, "what's the difference?"  I thought the difference was sufficiently explained but the posts continue.  I thought I'd try another approach since some seem to believe that Nigel, Jevon and, possibly, Malek are leaving because of Coach Weber.

Let's say that Nigel, Jevon and Malek really want to stay at K-State but they simply can't stand Weber.  Why didn't they band together and make a stand like their predecessors did with Martin?   With all the fans, who have never liked the Weber hire; and now with all these fans being lathered up into a frenzy by Marcus and Tre's dismissal;  wouldn't it have behooved them to take a stand?  They would have had a good amount of sympathy from the malcontents.
We have several explanations, here.

1.  One, or more, really didn't want to be in Manhattan, with, or without, Weber.

2.  One, or more, wanted to be here, even with Weber, but thought the incoming commits were good enough to
     get substantial minutes.

3.  They didn't think their on court performance warranted a challenge against the Athletic Department.  In other
     words, their absence would not cause next year to be worse than this year.


For all, who care to consider this with reason instead of emotion, please understand.  The player mutiny, under Frank's tenure, took place because numerous, solidly, performing players took a stand.  Some want to claim it was only two players.  You know better than this.  They took the stand because their departure would have crippled the program for the next few years.  One does not undertake such a risky challenge unless one has numbers and strength...bargaining power if you will.

Please read and understand.


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Offline CNS

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 04:43:12 PM »
We don't know better, #Life, and I have a good feeling you don't either.

Also, enjoy your Webber.  You deserve it.

Please go eff yourself and understand.

Offline ChiCat

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 04:53:16 PM »
oscar has lost all but one scholarship high school player he has recruited.  If you want to use reason like you say, don't excuse a real mutiny and defend a rumored one that never occurred.

Offline sys

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 05:24:40 PM »
astute analysis, life.  thankfully we now have a coach that is wise enough to never again allow a group of players to seize that kind of bargaining power.
we understand it better now that the american century is over and some of us sound more and more like serbs.

Online slackcat

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 06:24:59 PM »
 :lol:

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 06:30:08 PM »
It's 2 guys.

Offline meow meow

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2015, 08:02:54 PM »
Does it matter if the players left on their own or were told to gtfo?  oscar shouldn't get more time because of it, especially since they were all his guys.  If he recruits some guys that get in trouble with the law and consequently get kicked off the team, does that buy him more time?  No it doesn't, because he shouldn't have recruited those guys.  He is the one, and only one that has the final say who comes to play for him.  Results are results after that.

Offline wetwillie

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2015, 08:06:28 PM »
Ill be buying season tix this year to support the team.  Cut to that chase.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 11:21:20 PM »
We don't know better, #Life, and I have a good feeling you don't either.

Also, enjoy your Webber.  You deserve it.

Please go eff yourself and understand.

oscar has lost all but one scholarship high school player he has recruited.  If you want to use reason like you say, don't excuse a real mutiny and defend a rumored one that never occurred.

you guys, seriously?

Offline 1863

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2015, 01:21:45 PM »
Does being the leading scorer not place you under the solidly performing category?

I know Foster wasn't as good as last year but this isn't Roehleder leaving the team.

Offline Katdaddy

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2015, 10:55:55 PM »
We don't know better, #Life, and I have a good feeling you don't either.

Also, enjoy your Webber.  You deserve it.

Please go eff yourself and understand.
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Offline #LIFE

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2015, 09:32:07 AM »
Quote
I believe this is a very accurate summation of the situation.  Most of us are still drunk on the wine of that elite 8 year.  As I've written before, it was intoxicating.  As with any high, it leaves one wanting more; needing more.  That high was brought to us by the best guard tandem this nation has seen in a while.  It doesn't mean that we can't get back to an elite 8. With everything falling into place, we could get there next year.  Stranger things have happened.  It simply means that it won't be easy for any coach to pull off at K-State.  Even with Denis and Jake, we could, easily, have fallen before the elite 8.  The Xavier game could have gone either way.

I believe oscar Weber is the best possible coach K-State could have gotten after Frank left. Gor wrote that he didn't feel Weber was top 25.  I don't often disagree with Gor but I do on this one.  I believe Coach Weber is in the top 15.
oscar Weber coached in one of America's toughest basketball leagues.   He had to go head to head with Matta, Beilein, Izzo and Ryan.  You ought to try and go into Assembly Hall to play the Hoosiers even when they're down.

Currie picked up a high winning percentage coach; a coach who battled some of the best coaches, in one of the best conferences, in the nation;  a coach who has gone to the national championship; a coach who gave a mid major some national respect.   It was a no brainer, IMHO.   What coach was Currie going to get who would bring a better resume'?   No one unless that coach had baggage.

IMHO, we better hope that Coach Weber can get this thing turned around.  I, for one, believe he will get it turned around to the point where we can be competitive, in this conference, and have good hope to make the dance and advance.  Even with the issues this year, we still beat good teams and, with a few more wins over the bad teams, would have been in the top half of the conference.

Offline ednksu

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2015, 10:03:46 AM »
Quote
I believe this is a very accurate summation of the situation.  Most of us are still drunk on the wine of that elite 8 year.  As I've written before, it was intoxicating.  As with any high, it leaves one wanting more; needing more.  That high was brought to us by the best guard tandem this nation has seen in a while.  It doesn't mean that we can't get back to an elite 8. With everything falling into place, we could get there next year.  Stranger things have happened.  It simply means that it won't be easy for any coach to pull off at K-State.  Even with Denis and Jake, we could, easily, have fallen before the elite 8.  The Xavier game could have gone either way.

I believe oscar Weber is the best possible coach K-State could have gotten after Frank left. Gor wrote that he didn't feel Weber was top 25.  I don't often disagree with Gor but I do on this one.  I believe Coach Weber is in the top 15.
oscar Weber coached in one of America's toughest basketball leagues.   He had to go head to head with Matta, Beilein, Izzo and Ryan.  You ought to try and go into Assembly Hall to play the Hoosiers even when they're down.

Currie picked up a high winning percentage coach; a coach who battled some of the best coaches, in one of the best conferences, in the nation;  a coach who has gone to the national championship; a coach who gave a mid major some national respect.   It was a no brainer, IMHO.   What coach was Currie going to get who would bring a better resume'?   No one unless that coach had baggage.

IMHO, we better hope that Coach Weber can get this thing turned around.  I, for one, believe he will get it turned around to the point where we can be competitive, in this conference, and have good hope to make the dance and advance.  Even with the issues this year, we still beat good teams and, with a few more wins over the bad teams, would have been in the top half of the conference.

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Offline Bookcat

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2015, 10:17:26 AM »
"I believe oscar Weber is the best possible coach K-State could have gotten after Frank left. "


This is the most unfactual piece of garbage that the sunshine pumpers throw around. My god it's just terrible.

Offline ChiCat

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2015, 10:31:58 AM »
We don't know better, #Life, and I have a good feeling you don't either.

Also, enjoy your Webber.  You deserve it.

Please go eff yourself and understand.

oscar has lost all but one scholarship high school player he has recruited.  If you want to use reason like you say, don't excuse a real mutiny and defend a rumored one that never occurred.

you guys, seriously?

Yea, I even saw myself doing it

Offline Brock Landers

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2015, 11:21:25 AM »
It depresses me we have fans who feel this way.  It's one thing to know they exist but it's another thing entirely to see them write their thoughts out.

Offline slobber

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2015, 08:42:44 AM »
Top 15!


Gonna win 'em all!

Offline #LIFE

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2015, 10:33:27 AM »
Quote
Just another internet rumor to float out there, started by pharaoh.  Weber has talked about the importance of keeping that first group intact, and the challenge that presented.  If Angel wasn't granted his release that season, then why was it granted the next?   The answer is, he didn't want a release the first year because he was challenged by Weber to get better, and Weber showed him the path to get better.  Weber and his assistants coached the hell out of Angel that season and look at the results.  Angel was a wild, undisciplined point guard his first season.  He was immeasurably better the next season - far exceeding expectations with his selection as second team All Big 12.  So Angel leaving the following season (the one that most people are saying was pretty pedestrian) was a huge blow to the program.  That's why Weber's second year, in some ways was just as impressive as his first.  He lost his leading scorer, McGruder, who probably garnered the second most votes for POY in the Big 12, along with Angel.  Then he had to rely on a corp of freshman to contribute along with a solid, but not spectacular group of 3-star upperclassmen.   I put Weber's second season on the level of overachieving

Offline CNS

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2015, 12:59:12 PM »
Brucketball through 2018 at least.

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2015, 01:18:14 PM »
Quote
Just another internet rumor to float out there, started by pharaoh.  Weber has talked about the importance of keeping that first group intact, and the challenge that presented.  If Angel wasn't granted his release that season, then why was it granted the next?   The answer is, he didn't want a release the first year because he was challenged by Weber to get better, and Weber showed him the path to get better.  Weber and his assistants coached the hell out of Angel that season and look at the results.  Angel was a wild, undisciplined point guard his first season.  He was immeasurably better the next season - far exceeding expectations with his selection as second team All Big 12.  So Angel leaving the following season (the one that most people are saying was pretty pedestrian) was a huge blow to the program.  That's why Weber's second year, in some ways was just as impressive as his first.  He lost his leading scorer, McGruder, who probably garnered the second most votes for POY in the Big 12, along with Angel.  Then he had to rely on a corp of freshman to contribute along with a solid, but not spectacular group of 3-star upperclassmen.   I put Weber's second season on the level of overachieving

I hate that this is justification for a miserable season, but it's undeniably true.
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Offline Chingon

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2015, 02:25:55 PM »
Quote
Just another internet rumor to float out there, started by pharaoh.  Weber has talked about the importance of keeping that first group intact, and the challenge that presented.  If Angel wasn't granted his release that season, then why was it granted the next?   The answer is, he didn't want a release the first year because he was challenged by Weber to get better, and Weber showed him the path to get better.  Weber and his assistants coached the hell out of Angel that season and look at the results.  Angel was a wild, undisciplined point guard his first season.  He was immeasurably better the next season - far exceeding expectations with his selection as second team All Big 12.  So Angel leaving the following season (the one that most people are saying was pretty pedestrian) was a huge blow to the program.  That's why Weber's second year, in some ways was just as impressive as his first.  He lost his leading scorer, McGruder, who probably garnered the second most votes for POY in the Big 12, along with Angel.  Then he had to rely on a corp of freshman to contribute along with a solid, but not spectacular group of 3-star upperclassmen.   I put Weber's second season on the level of overachieving

Yup, I mean oscar hasn't really had a bad year yet. 

Year 1: Won the conference (Great Year)
Year 2: Betrayed by Angel, had to overcome losing pg, but still gutted it out and ended up in the top half of the conference (Great Year [considering the circumstances])
Year 3: Betrayed by Foster and his terrible attitude which lead to team mutiny of sorts (mulligan, not his fault)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 great years and a pass, who would fire a coach after that?

Year 4: oscar cleans house, fills roster with "right fits" and while not as many W's materialize as wanted the team is playing the right way
year 5: The team catches some good breaks and makes the NIT (improvement!)
Year 6: Just plain bad luck guys, key transfer or injury derails what would have surely been an NCAA tournament appearance (mulligan)
Year 7: Everything lines up just right and we snag a 12 seed, but get bounced in the first round (extension)

yup yup yup...

Offline AndrewVonLintel

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2015, 05:18:22 PM »
Quote
Just another internet rumor to float out there, started by pharaoh.  Weber has talked about the importance of keeping that first group intact, and the challenge that presented.  If Angel wasn't granted his release that season, then why was it granted the next?   The answer is, he didn't want a release the first year because he was challenged by Weber to get better, and Weber showed him the path to get better.  Weber and his assistants coached the hell out of Angel that season and look at the results.  Angel was a wild, undisciplined point guard his first season.  He was immeasurably better the next season - far exceeding expectations with his selection as second team All Big 12.  So Angel leaving the following season (the one that most people are saying was pretty pedestrian) was a huge blow to the program.  That's why Weber's second year, in some ways was just as impressive as his first.  He lost his leading scorer, McGruder, who probably garnered the second most votes for POY in the Big 12, along with Angel.  Then he had to rely on a corp of freshman to contribute along with a solid, but not spectacular group of 3-star upperclassmen.   I put Weber's second season on the level of overachieving

Yup, I mean oscar hasn't really had a bad year yet. 

Year 1: Won the conference (Great Year)
Year 2: Betrayed by Angel, had to overcome losing pg, but still gutted it out and ended up in the top half of the conference (Great Year [considering the circumstances])
Year 3: Betrayed by Foster and his terrible attitude which lead to team mutiny of sorts (mulligan, not his fault)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 great years and a pass, who would fire a coach after that?

Year 4: oscar cleans house, fills roster with "right fits" and while not as many W's materialize as wanted the team is playing the right way
year 5: The team catches some good breaks and makes the NIT (improvement!)
Year 6: Just plain bad luck guys, key transfer or injury derails what would have surely been an NCAA tournament appearance (mulligan)
Year 7: Everything lines up just right and we snag a 12 seed, but get bounced in the first round (extension)

yup yup yup...


Give oscar some credit... he might win one tournament game if he is here for four more years.
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Offline the angry young man

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2015, 02:02:35 PM »
Give oscar some credit... he might win one tournament game if he is here for four more years.

Do you mean a Big 12 tournament game?  Because I don't see any NCAA tournament wins for the 'Cats while oscar is coaching them.

Offline slobber

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2015, 02:25:16 PM »
Give oscar some credit... he might win one tournament game if he is here for four more years.

Do you mean a Big 12 tournament game?  Because I don't see any NCAA tournament wins for the 'Cats while oscar is coaching them.
You do seem genuinely angry. I hope everything is okay.

Offline the angry young man

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Re: Let's cut to the chase
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2015, 01:17:58 PM »
Give oscar some credit... he might win one tournament game if he is here for four more years.

Do you mean a Big 12 tournament game?  Because I don't see any NCAA tournament wins for the 'Cats while oscar is coaching them.
You do seem genuinely angry. I hope everything is okay.

I am genuinely angry that our athletic director forced out a successful basketball coach and replaced him with a proven failure.  I'm also genuinely angry that so many K-State fans are still willing to give oscar the benefit of the doubt when he hasn't done anything to earn it.