2015-16 Bruceketball and things (basketball related) that need to improve

[ksupamplemousse]

i would really like to see an actual in-bounds play. like a good one that we use well

Jesus, you're greedy.

[Brock Landers]

i would really like to see an actual in-bounds play. like a good one that we use well

Oh man that's a big one.  It's embarrassing to watch other teams execute inbounds plays like it's no big deal.

I noticed we started using the "throw the ball clear back across the halfcourt line" inbounds play a little more often, which is a slight improvement over the previous year's "Spradling calls timeout just before a 5 second call" inbounds play.

[kslim]

i would really like to see an actual in-bounds play. like a good one that we use well

Jesus, you're greedy.

i would really like to see an actual in-bounds play. like a good one that we use well

Oh man that's a big one.  It's embarrassing to watch other teams execute inbounds plays like it's no big deal.

I noticed we started using the "throw the ball clear back across the halfcourt line" inbounds play a little more often, which is a slight improvement over the previous year's "Spradling calls timeout just before a 5 second call" inbounds play.

seeeee...

[The Whale]

I believe we were told the inbounds problem was specific to our previous coach and that the current coach would fix it.

[ksupamplemousse]

I believe we were told the inbounds problem was specific to our previous coach and that the current coach would fix it.

I don't remember us having a big inbounds problem while Frank was here. It's been infuriating during oscar's tenure though.

[Mixed-Nutz]

I believe we were told the inbounds problem was specific to our previous coach and that the current coach would fix it.

I don't remember us having a big inbounds problem while Frank was here. It's been infuriating during oscar's tenure though.

It is our shitty length, that has compounded the problem.

[Clevey 2 Times]

I believe we were told the inbounds problem was specific to our previous coach and that the current coach would fix it.

I don't remember us having a big inbounds problem while Frank was here. It's been infuriating during oscar's tenure though.

It is our shitty length, that has compounded the problem.

The only continuity between Frank and oscar has been terrible inbounds plays.

[Tobias]

been #daxdoor'd a few times too

[kslim]

I believe we were told the inbounds problem was specific to our previous coach and that the current coach would fix it.

I don't remember us having a big inbounds problem while Frank was here. It's been infuriating during oscar's tenure though.

good to see you come around, we need _33 to make a shirt

[Trim]

been #daxdoor'd a few times too

Very disappointed that he was missing from chat for most of them. 

[Sandstone Outcropping]

I'm feeling good about 15-16

my new and radically different perspective
Many factors have come together recently to give me a drastically new perspective on our hoops programs.  (As I am primarily an Illinois fan and secondarily a KSU fan, I will include Illini-related comments.)  The bottom line for me is that I have accepted a more realistic vision of the Illinois program.  This also applies to the KSU program and, frankly, almost all non-blue blood P5 programs.
While it is a worthy aspiration, it is foolish for me to think Illinois or KSU has been or ever will consistently be a top hoops program.  There is no evidence that the programs have ever been at that level.  Miracles happen but the odds are very long against it.  Izzo has managed to pull it off at Michigan State but, even so and despite prolonged consistent success, they are still clearly not in the same league as the blue bloods.  With some breaks, it is highly likely that programs like Illinois and KSU will have occasional stretches of very nice success just like somewhat recent stretches by Butler, Wichita State, etc.
As a fan, it was simply subjectively inaccurate thinking to believe Illinois was anything beyond a good program.  Since 1975, Illinois has had two Final Fours, two Elite Eights, four Sweet Sixteens; KSU has had three Sweet Sixteens and three Elite Eights.  That's over 40 years.  Good at best.
Illinois fans that hate Weber often cite his "total failure" at Illinois and how he "destroyed a great program".  Puh-leeze.  First, the program was never great.  Not even close.  Second, the numbers don't support that.  In nine seasons, Weber had one losing record and two seasons with less than 20 wins.  Kruger, whom most (including me) would be thrilled to have as coach, had one losing record at Illinois in four seasons and never got out of the second round.  He also had two losing records at Florida and one losing record at Oklahoma.
As a rule, I am now convinced that programs like Illinois and KSU will never attract the very best players.  With long term sustained success, that could change.  Had Brad Stevens stayed at Butler, that program had a good chance to become something much bigger.  Just a chance.  Maybe that would be true for Wichita State and Marshall.  Maybe.  Coach Few at Gonzaga seems to have hit that even though they haven't made a Final Four.  For programs like Illinois and KSU, it takes luck and patience.  It's a long term project for which a revolving door at the coaching position is an impediment.
Like top players, top coaches aren't lining up for gigs at programs like Illinois and KSU.  One could argue that the Texas job is the most appealing opportunity in the country.  Shaka Smart?  He has been a hot name but I am not convinced he's a special coach.  But presumably that's a reflection of the pool of coaching talent.  If Shaka Smart is the best Texas could do, that means candidates for Illinois and KSU would be well down the list of available coaches.  There is evidence that Weber is a good, capable coach (along with some concerns).  There was virtually nothing about his performance at Ohio that would suggest Groce is a good, capable coach.  I haven't seen compelling evidence to the contrary since he took the job.  However, I think both schools are better off sticking with their coaches for a good long time.  It takes a lot of patience for programs like Illinois and KSU.  Also barring a miraculously prescient hire, coaching turnover is simply another big setback.  Ride 'em out.  Support 'em.  Hope they can turn it around with time.  The odds are against the next coach being a better option.
It's discouraging for me to lose so much optimism but I think getting a more realistic perspective will be good for me overall.
 
Note: I hope I got the facts right (e.g. re NCAA tourney performances, W-L records) but I didn't make this my life's work with detailed research and fact-checking.

This is a really good and thought-provoking thread. I have a close family member in a high leadership position in a high level NCAA athletic department. We recently discussed how every league has schools that are, and I hate to use this term but can't think of a better one, "have's and have not's." Basically, every league has a couple of teams that have every resource necessary for success, whether it be money, location, love from the media, blah blah blah. We talked about how obviously in the Big 12, Texas and OU are the have's. KU is kind of in the middle, mainly because they only care about one sport. A school like KSU, like it or not, is in the have not category. He mentioned that Michigan State is in the have not category in the Big 10.

It is what it is. I personally like it. I personally like being a fan of a "blue-collar" program rather than a "blue-blood" program.

My KSU buddies and I talk often about how it is hard to be a KSU fan. That is why I love it. It is easy to be a KU basketball fan, no big deal, if things go to crap, just trot out the resume and brag about this, that or the other. But it is hard to be a KSU fan, lots of the old KITN theory at work. But man, does it make it sweet when we do things that no one thinks, or wants, us to do.

We can win at KSU and we can win big. However, it does take special players and special coaches. LHC Bill Snyder is special, we all know that. But even for him it is tough.

All I know, I love KSU, always have, always will.

[Brock Landers]

I read all of that looking for something that would make me feel good about 15-16 and couldn't find it??         If anything it made me feel worse......

[Sandstone Outcropping]

I read all of that looking for something that would make me feel good about 15-16 and couldn't find it??         If anything it made me feel worse......

The take-home point is that you feel bad because you have unrealistic expectations. Adjust your expectations and then you won't feel bad anymore.

 

[renocat]

Scary thought we only have basically 4 healthy scholarship players returning.  Edwards, Hurt, Malek,, and Wes.

[ksupamplemousse]

Scary thought we only have basically 4 healthy scholarship players returning.  Edwards, Hurt, Malek,, and Wes.

At least one of those guys probably won't be on the team next year.

[nicname]

my new and radically different perspective
Many factors have come together recently to give me a drastically new perspective on our hoops programs.  (As I am primarily an Illinois fan and secondarily a KSU fan, I will include Illini-related comments.)  The bottom line for me is that I have accepted a more realistic vision of the Illinois program.  This also applies to the KSU program and, frankly, almost all non-blue blood P5 programs.
While it is a worthy aspiration, it is foolish for me to think Illinois or KSU has been or ever will consistently be a top hoops program.  There is no evidence that the programs have ever been at that level.  Miracles happen but the odds are very long against it.  Izzo has managed to pull it off at Michigan State but, even so and despite prolonged consistent success, they are still clearly not in the same league as the blue bloods.  With some breaks, it is highly likely that programs like Illinois and KSU will have occasional stretches of very nice success just like somewhat recent stretches by Butler, Wichita State, etc.
As a fan, it was simply subjectively inaccurate thinking to believe Illinois was anything beyond a good program.  Since 1975, Illinois has had two Final Fours, two Elite Eights, four Sweet Sixteens; KSU has had three Sweet Sixteens and three Elite Eights.  That's over 40 years.  Good at best.
Illinois fans that hate Weber often cite his "total failure" at Illinois and how he "destroyed a great program".  Puh-leeze.  First, the program was never great.  Not even close.  Second, the numbers don't support that.  In nine seasons, Weber had one losing record and two seasons with less than 20 wins.  Kruger, whom most (including me) would be thrilled to have as coach, had one losing record at Illinois in four seasons and never got out of the second round.  He also had two losing records at Florida and one losing record at Oklahoma.
As a rule, I am now convinced that programs like Illinois and KSU will never attract the very best players.  With long term sustained success, that could change.  Had Brad Stevens stayed at Butler, that program had a good chance to become something much bigger.  Just a chance.  Maybe that would be true for Wichita State and Marshall.  Maybe.  Coach Few at Gonzaga seems to have hit that even though they haven't made a Final Four.  For programs like Illinois and KSU, it takes luck and patience.  It's a long term project for which a revolving door at the coaching position is an impediment.
Like top players, top coaches aren't lining up for gigs at programs like Illinois and KSU.  One could argue that the Texas job is the most appealing opportunity in the country.  Shaka Smart?  He has been a hot name but I am not convinced he's a special coach.  But presumably that's a reflection of the pool of coaching talent.  If Shaka Smart is the best Texas could do, that means candidates for Illinois and KSU would be well down the list of available coaches.  There is evidence that Weber is a good, capable coach (along with some concerns).  There was virtually nothing about his performance at Ohio that would suggest Groce is a good, capable coach.  I haven't seen compelling evidence to the contrary since he took the job.  However, I think both schools are better off sticking with their coaches for a good long time.  It takes a lot of patience for programs like Illinois and KSU.  Also barring a miraculously prescient hire, coaching turnover is simply another big setback.  Ride 'em out.  Support 'em.  Hope they can turn it around with time.  The odds are against the next coach being a better option.
It's discouraging for me to lose so much optimism but I think getting a more realistic perspective will be good for me overall.
 
Note: I hope I got the facts right (e.g. re NCAA tourney performances, W-L records) but I didn't make this my life's work with detailed research and fact-checking.

What kind of a unicorn is this guy? I mean, we're talking about a oscar supporter that's been through the ringer with two programs. That has to be like a one-in-a-gazillion chance.

[PowercatPat]

I think we need to focus on more intrinsic values and not just winning and losing. Enjoy the game for what it is. Put a competitive team on the floor that works hard and plays solid fundamental basketball and I will be proud. If we consistently do this we will occasionally have a very good team. I can live with that and be proud to be a Wildcat. If that makes me a loser in the minds of some on this board so be it. People that are only about winning at whatever the cost hold very little sway in my life.

[CNS]

Scary thought we only have basically 4 healthy scholarship players returning.  Edwards, Hurt, Malek,, and Wes.

At least one of those guys probably won't be on the team next year.

Could you even imagine being Wes right now?  I mean, the other guys are rough ridin' stoked, no doubt.  But Wes....