Author Topic: next season (Read 110058 times)

CNS · « **Reply #400 on:** March 25, 2015, 01:59:14 PM »

If oscar is his guy, he definitely would so that a year later he could trow out a stat about post season appearances 3 out of 4 yrs.

pissclams · « **Reply #401 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:23:31 PM »

Quote from: ksu_FAN on March 25, 2015, 12:51:56 PM

Quote from: ksupamplemousse on March 25, 2015, 12:45:06 PM
I don't think it's the company line though. John Currie isn't some evil villain trying to make our lives miserable (although it's the end result regardless of intent). He's surely not very happy about this past year, and I certainly haven't heard him go out of his way in public to make sure oscar knows that his job is totally safe. In fact, I bet they've had some very uncomfortable conversations since the season ended.

Yeah, I don't think he's purposely trying to salvage the program. Clearly, he had a different point of view when hiring Weber. For whatever reason I truly believe he thought it was a good hire and that Weber would be successful here. But I also think that if things go south he won't be afraid to Patterson Weber if he needs to.

um, the company line is that oscar is safe, and that everything is fine. the things that stan has said. currie isn't going to acknowledge any cracks in his decision to hire weber.
of course he isn't trying to purposely sink the program. maybe you guys just don't understand the term.

kso_FAN · « **Reply #402 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:29:27 PM »

Quote from: pissclams on March 25, 2015, 02:23:31 PM

um, the company line is that oscar is safe, and that everything is fine. the things that stan has said. currie isn't going to acknowledge any cracks in his decision to hire weber.
of course he isn't trying to purposely sink the program. maybe you guys just don't understand the term.

Well yeah, but I think at some point even Currie has limit$.

pissclams · « **Reply #403 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:31:22 PM »

Quote from: ksu_FAN on March 25, 2015, 02:29:27 PM

Quote from: pissclams on March 25, 2015, 02:23:31 PM
um, the company line is that oscar is safe, and that everything is fine. the things that stan has said. currie isn't going to acknowledge any cracks in his decision to hire weber.
of course he isn't trying to purposely sink the program. maybe you guys just don't understand the term.

Well yeah, but I think at some point even Currie has limit$.

not that anyone from the AD is going to admit. remember, we were also told that basketball ticket revenues were up.

Stevesie60 · « **Reply #404 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:45:55 PM »

Since day 1 of oscar Weber I never wished for the program to fail. I wished to be wrong, for goEMAW to be wrong, about Weber, even though I knew goEMAW is rarely wrong. For this upcoming season I can't help but think of a better thing that could happen than for us to do poorly enough for oscar to get fired.

CHONGS · « **Reply #405 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:48:55 PM »

Quote from: Stevesie60 on March 25, 2015, 02:45:55 PM

Since day 1 of oscar Weber I never wished for the program to fail. I wished to be wrong, for goEMAW to be wrong, about Weber, even though I knew goEMAW is rarely wrong. For this upcoming season I can't help but think of a better thing that could happen than for us to do poorly enough for oscar to get fired.

The trouble is (and I know I am being a goddamn repeating mp3 here) that there is no "poor enough" for oscar to get fired next year. Cheer for some glimpse at brightness because the night is long and full of terrors.

CNS · « **Reply #406 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:52:49 PM »

Whoever mentioned money before is probably right. Once rev drops below a certain level, that will probably be the only time Currie will allow his ego to take a hit and admit that he made a bad hire.

0.42 · « **Reply #407 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:53:37 PM »

Quote from: Chingon on March 25, 2015, 02:48:55 PM

Quote from: Stevesie60 on March 25, 2015, 02:45:55 PM
Since day 1 of oscar Weber I never wished for the program to fail. I wished to be wrong, for goEMAW to be wrong, about Weber, even though I knew goEMAW is rarely wrong. For this upcoming season I can't help but think of a better thing that could happen than for us to do poorly enough for oscar to get fired.
The trouble is (and I know I am being a goddamn repeating mp3 here) that there is no "poor enough" for oscar to get fired next year. Cheer for some glimpse at brightness because the night is long and full of terrors.

Yep. Unless he somehow manages not to win a single game next season, oscar is sticking around.

At this point the debate is over whether it's better to suffer through 4-5 more years plus of oscar mediocrity and have the next coach have at least some pieces to work with at a moribund program or biting the bullet and leaving the next coach nothing but ashes to work with in 2-3 years after oscar implodes.

kso_FAN · « **Reply #408 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:54:08 PM »

Quote from: CNS on March 25, 2015, 02:52:49 PM

Whoever mentioned money before is probably right. Once rev drops below a certain level, that will probably be the only time Currie will allow his ego to take a hit and admit that he made a bad hire.

Clearly, its his MO. He's good at it. He won't let basketball fall to the point where we have multiple seasons with 6K fans.

kso_FAN · « **Reply #409 on:** March 25, 2015, 02:55:32 PM »

https://twitter.com/KenCorbitt/status/580819569452957697

https://twitter.com/KenCorbitt/status/580819343614808065

Pete · « **Reply #410 on:** March 25, 2015, 03:01:33 PM »

Quote from: ksu_FAN on March 25, 2015, 02:55:32 PM

https://twitter.com/KenCorbitt/status/580819569452957697

https://twitter.com/KenCorbitt/status/580819343614808065

There you have it, oscar's decisions.

kso_FAN · « **Reply #411 on:** March 25, 2015, 03:06:40 PM »

Quote from: Pete on March 25, 2015, 03:01:33 PM

There you have it, oscar's decisions.

I know people are cynical of Currie, but he's playing a good boss game here. He put the responsibility on oscar to be consistent. When it reaches the point for firing, then there is nothing to fall back on to say this was Currie's deal, this will be oscar's failure alone. Currie knows what he's doing here. IMO.

ksupamplemousse · « **Reply #412 on:** March 25, 2015, 03:13:42 PM »

Quote from: Chingon on March 25, 2015, 02:48:55 PM

Quote from: Stevesie60 on March 25, 2015, 02:45:55 PM
Since day 1 of oscar Weber I never wished for the program to fail. I wished to be wrong, for goEMAW to be wrong, about Weber, even though I knew goEMAW is rarely wrong. For this upcoming season I can't help but think of a better thing that could happen than for us to do poorly enough for oscar to get fired.
The trouble is (and I know I am being a goddamn repeating mp3 here) that there is no "poor enough" for oscar to get fired next year. Cheer for some glimpse at brightness because the night is long and full of terrors.

The older I get the more I appreciate Chignon and Catzacker. That probably says something about me, or them, possibly humanity.

Rage Against the McKee · « **Reply #413 on:** March 25, 2015, 03:18:27 PM »

We need some of our players to be heroes and get Weber to violate an NCAA rule. Go out to eat with him this summer and forget their wallets or something.

MakeItRain · « **Reply #414 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:25:43 PM »

Quote from: Trim on March 25, 2015, 09:48:07 AM

Quote from: catzacker on March 24, 2015, 07:53:43 PM
Quote from: sys on March 24, 2015, 07:30:09 PM
i like that he credits the scoop to "twitter" rather than the reporter that tweeted it.

this is my favorite part as well. as if Goodman was just some guy walking on the street that bumped into Tre and Jevon in the parking lot..."hey, what's up guys? what? really? I can't believe that...hello twitter..."

Quote
Fitz: We should say that Jeff Goodaman - who is he with now? ESPN? - he's so awkward on the set, doesn't he always look like he just left the dentist? Ah, he's reporting through sources which would probably mean the K-State coaches because who else would know, um, that 2 players are leaving the program.

Ray-Gun: For sure, Jevon Thomas; I've confirmed that. Tre Harris, I'm still working on that as of Tuesday afternoon.

OMG

MakeItRain · « **Reply #415 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:36:45 PM »

Quote from: Dugout DickStone on March 25, 2015, 01:53:31 PM

Quote from: Chingon on March 25, 2015, 01:37:14 PM
I am 100% sure Currie was involved in every step of this. oscar is not doing anything without Curries knowledge and say-so. That is why I am so confident that there is no way Weber gets fired any time soon.

That makes too much sense. Now I am actually scared.

Right, but Currie could have absolutely dismissed those players or oscar did it with his permission; that doesn't mean that Currie isn't holding oscar responsible for what the players he recruited did or didn't do. We can go round and round on whether Currie will either make excuses for oscar or hold him directly responsible, the fact is we're all guessing we have no basis to know whether he is too stubborn to see his mistakes or not. He's outright fired one coach and that situation was nothing like this one is although I will point out that Deb was the very first coach Currie gave an extension to.

j rake · « **Reply #416 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:38:32 PM »

it's too bad that currie thinks firing oscar would be admitting a mistake. i'd actually argue that currie made a good hire (oscar's 32-22 big 12 record, two ncaa tourney appearances and a league title was a decent three-year run by any objective measure, and i doubt hypothetical coach X would have done better).

but now ... the team is coming off a sub-.500 season. the best players aren't returning. the fan base doesn't like the coach. with the roster that returns, oddsmakers will likely list k-state as the second-worst big 12 team, and possibly the worst. that means a second straight non-ncaa tourney season, and a fan base that will likely stop supporting him entering the 2016-17 season (after what'll surely be a low attendance season next year).

firing oscar would mean buying him out, which comes at a cost. but if keeping oscar results in declining fan support, fewer ticket sales, less national exposure, etc., then it's easy to justify the price tag that comes with it. again, as others have said: if it's inevitable, you might as well just make it immediate. firing oscar is a +EV move in the long run, based on the info we have in front of us.

i know people hate currie, but he's done a lot of good for k-state, certainly with the facilities upgrades and fundraising. the athletic department is in much better shape now than it was prior to when he took over.

if he fired oscar tomorrow, the talking point wouldn't be, "currie screwed up by hiring oscar!"

more likely, he would be celebrated, and i think he'd win over the remaining doubters he currently has.

wetwillie · « **Reply #417 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:42:50 PM »

it was never a good hire. Firing weber would not immediately gain him favor with his detractors.

j rake · « **Reply #418 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:47:04 PM »

Quote from: wetwillie on March 25, 2015, 08:42:50 PM

it was never a good hire. Firing weber would not immediately gain him favor with his detractors.

i highly doubt any other coach would have won (shared) a big 12 title, the first in program history. anything is possible, but i'd make any other coach currie could have hired (gottlieb, underwood, etc.) a big underdog to have accomplished the same feat under the same circumstances. again, oscar's three-year run on the whole was more positive than negative, and exceeded the expectations that most had for him.

if firing weber wouldn't gain currie favor with his detractors, then this fan base is dumber than i think.

wazucat · « **Reply #419 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:49:03 PM »

"The decisions he made are what he believes is right."

A real ringing endorsement and a bully vote of confidence if I've ever heard one.

Pete · « **Reply #420 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:51:02 PM »

Quote from: j rake on March 25, 2015, 08:47:04 PM

...then this fan base is dumber than i think.

How dumb do you think it is? I bet it's a push. It's probably the same amount of dumb.

nicname · « **Reply #421 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:56:29 PM »

Quote from: j rake on March 25, 2015, 08:38:32 PM

it's too bad that currie thinks firing oscar would be admitting a mistake. i'd actually argue that currie made a good hire (oscar's 32-22 big 12 record, two ncaa tourney appearances and a league title was a decent three-year run by any objective measure, and i doubt hypothetical coach X would have done better).

but now ... the team is coming off a sub-.500 season. the best players aren't returning. the fan base doesn't like the coach. with the roster that returns, oddsmakers will likely list k-state as the second-worst big 12 team, and possibly the worst. that means a second straight non-ncaa tourney season, and a fan base that will likely stop supporting him entering the 2016-17 season (after what'll surely be a low attendance season next year).

firing oscar would mean buying him out, which comes at a cost. but if keeping oscar results in declining fan support, fewer ticket sales, less national exposure, etc., then it's easy to justify the price tag that comes with it. again, as others have said: if it's inevitable, you might as well just make it immediate. firing oscar is a +EV move in the long run, based on the info we have in front of us.

i know people hate currie, but he's done a lot of good for k-state, certainly with the facilities upgrades and fundraising. the athletic department is in much better shape now than it was prior to when he took over.

if he fired oscar tomorrow, the talking point wouldn't be, "currie screwed up by hiring oscar!"

more likely, he would be celebrated, and i think he'd win over the remaining doubters he currently has.

Unless they've got a sure winner, or solid list of real possibilities, waiting in the wings it makes as much sense to let this thing burn to the ground next season. You get another year to evaluate network the coaching pool, and you squash any potential hire's fears of a quick hook.

As for what the athletic department or their employees are saying aka Stan, none of that really matters. Even if it is basically a lame-duck situation they're not going to say that publicly and that's just fine.

Your points about fan support and apathy heading into 16-17 are absolutely valid regardless. It's just a matter of weighing everything together. I'd rather they tank next season if it means a better shot at a winner next April than space Weber now only to hire a SLTH.

wetwillie · « **Reply #422 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:58:43 PM »

Quote from: j rake on March 25, 2015, 08:47:04 PM

Quote from: wetwillie on March 25, 2015, 08:42:50 PM
it was never a good hire. Firing weber would not immediately gain him favor with his detractors.

i highly doubt any other coach would have won (shared) a big 12 title, the first in program history. anything is possible, but i'd make any other coach currie could have hired (gottlieb, underwood, etc.) a big underdog to have accomplished the same feat under the same circumstances. again, oscar's three-year run on the whole was more positive than negative, and exceeded the expectations that most had for him.

if firing weber wouldn't gain currie favor with his detractors, then this fan base is dumber than i think.

firing oscar doesnt mean he would hire a suitable replacement. If he got brad underwood then yes i would imagine the hatred would be dropped quickly.

nicname · « **Reply #423 on:** March 25, 2015, 09:01:02 PM »

Don't overestimate the hatred for Currie.

wetwillie · « **Reply #424 on:** March 25, 2015, 09:02:27 PM »

Overestimate?