Well hello there SAE

[Rage Against the McKee]

What is "the problem"?  That a racist takes classes at the university of alabama?

It's definitely a problem for them that she is so publicly racist. Missouri students protested over much less and the school still hasn't recovered.

[DQ12]

What is "the problem"?  That a racist takes classes at the university of alabama?

It's definitely a problem for them that she is so publicly racist. Missouri students protested over much less and the school still hasn't recovered.

great point.  should students protesting at Mizzou have been expelled?

[Rage Against the McKee]

What is "the problem"?  That a racist takes classes at the university of alabama?

It's definitely a problem for them that she is so publicly racist. Missouri students protested over much less and the school still hasn't recovered.

great point.  should students protesting at Mizzou have been expelled?

No, but Mizzou probably should have taken a more proactive approach at eliminating hate speech from their campus in the first place. It probably wasn't a great idea to cancel class to make it easier for students to protest and to fire the school president, either.

[DQ12]

What is "the problem"?  That a racist takes classes at the university of alabama?

It's definitely a problem for them that she is so publicly racist. Missouri students protested over much less and the school still hasn't recovered.

great point.  should students protesting at Mizzou have been expelled?

No, but Mizzou probably should have taken a more proactive approach at eliminating hate speech from their campus in the first place.

but can't you see how a university being the arbiter of what constitutes "hate speech" could lead to problems?  what if one day k-state changes their honor code to prohibit "hate speech" and includes in that definition "any speech aimed at increasing racial animosity."  then, pursuant to that definition, determines that BLM stuff constitutes "hate speech" and starts expelling kids who have "#BlackLivesMatter" in their twitter bios or something?

[Rage Against the McKee]

What is "the problem"?  That a racist takes classes at the university of alabama?

It's definitely a problem for them that she is so publicly racist. Missouri students protested over much less and the school still hasn't recovered.

great point.  should students protesting at Mizzou have been expelled?

No, but Mizzou probably should have taken a more proactive approach at eliminating hate speech from their campus in the first place.

but can't you see how a university being the arbiter of what constitutes "hate speech" could lead to problems?  what if one day k-state determines that BLM stuff constitutes "hate speech" and starts expelling kids who have "#BlackLivesMatter" in their twitter bios or something?

People would probably (hopefully) just stop enrolling at K-State and the institution would bankrupt itself. Also, those people could just sue K-State and get re-enrolled.

[michigancat]

would the university saying something to the effect of "we would expel this racist but we can't because of the first amendment" be a violation of her first amendment rights?

[DQ12]

would the university saying something to the effect of "we would expel this racist but we can't because of the first amendment" be a violation of her first amendment rights?

i don't think so

but can't you see how a university being the arbiter of what constitutes "hate speech" could lead to problems?  what if one day k-state determines that BLM stuff constitutes "hate speech" and starts expelling kids who have "#BlackLivesMatter" in their twitter bios or something?

People would probably (hopefully) just stop enrolling at K-State and the institution would bankrupt itself. Also, those people could just sue K-State and get re-enrolled.

maybe kids would stop enrolling at k-state.  or maybe k-state would become wildly popular.  regardless, that's not the point. 

the point is that if the responses by OU and Alabama become the norm, then it opens the door for universities to expel students for controversial speech that we agree with.  of course anyone can sue to get back in, but that could take years.  and what's the point?  why would the expelled BLM people in my hypothetical bother with all that when they could just enroll at KU down the road?  it's best practice for universities to play by the rules, even when it's inconvenient.

i think it's a ridiculous argument to say "violate important constitutional rights when you have public support."  like, think about that critically for a few seconds.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The school is going to act in its own best interest, and until somebody actually sues a school for a first amendment violation, expulsion will be the best course.

[DQ12]

The school is going to act in its own best interest, and until somebody actually sues a school for a first amendment equal protection violation, expulsion segregation will be the best course.

and people HAVE sued schools for this.  plenty of times.  that's why it's established to be unconstitutional.

here's an example from 40 years ago http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/410/667.html

there, the supreme court directed that the expelled student should be readmitted, and stated clear as day:

the mere dissemination of ideas - no matter how offensive to good taste - on a state university campus may not be shut off in the name alone of "conventions of decency."

[Rage Against the McKee]

The school is going to act in its own best interest, and until somebody actually sues a school for a first amendment equal protection violation, expulsion segregation will be the best course.

Isn't that how it worked?

[DQ12]

The school is going to act in its own best interest, and until somebody actually sues a school for a first amendment equal protection violation, expulsion segregation will be the best course.

Isn't that how it worked?

kind of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkansas_National_Guard_and_the_integration_of_Central_High_School

[8manpick]

I'd argue that Bama has no legal right to (and therefore should not) do anything about it, but I'm admittedly a 1st amendment extremist.  Today it's kicking someone out for over the top vile racist speech, tomorrow it is for failure to include a proper trigger warning on the Snapchat of a discussion of abuse, and next week it is for speaking negatively about the president. The amendment must be applied in all cases, not on a sliding scale of current popularity.

As an aside, her Sorority isn't a state institution and should clearly kick her out.

[Trim]

I think the school should either do nothing at all or expel her. Anything less than expulsion would still violate her first amendment rights anyway, while not going far enough to address the problem.

What is "the problem"?  That a racist takes classes at the university of alabama? 

Realistically, for the university, it was probably what negative impact the publicity might have on football recruiting.

[DQ12]

I'd argue that Bama has no legal right to (and therefore should not) do anything about it, but I'm admittedly a 1st amendment extremist.  Today it's kicking someone out for over the top vile racist speech, tomorrow it is for failure to include a proper trigger warning on the Snapchat of a discussion of abuse, and next week it is for speaking negatively about the president. The amendment must be applied in all cases, not on a sliding scale of current popularity.

As an aside, her Sorority isn't a state institution and should clearly kick her out.

it probably goes without saying, but you and i share identical views on this.

notably, i think the disagreement in the argument is here:

I'd argue that Bama has no legal right to (and therefore should not) do anything about it

[8manpick]

I'd argue that Bama has no legal right to (and therefore should not) do anything about it, but I'm admittedly a 1st amendment extremist.  Today it's kicking someone out for over the top vile racist speech, tomorrow it is for failure to include a proper trigger warning on the Snapchat of a discussion of abuse, and next week it is for speaking negatively about the president. The amendment must be applied in all cases, not on a sliding scale of current popularity.

As an aside, her Sorority isn't a state institution and should clearly kick her out.

it probably goes without saying, but you and i share identical views on this.

notably, i think the disagreement in the argument is here:

I'd argue that Bama has no legal right to (and therefore should not) do anything about it

Certainly...it didn't fit as well given the recent discussion, but I started writing most of that this morning, in response to Mich's question about what they should have done (IMO, nothing at all)

dlew what do you think Bama should have done instead of expelling?

[SkinnyBenny]

Yeah you guys are probably right, we get it, but again, I still can't muster any fucks to give about this girl's rights being violated because she is so very     

lol sorry

[DQ12]

Yeah you guys are probably right, we get it, but again, I still can't muster any fucks to give about this girl's rights being violated because she is so very     

lol sorry

yep

she shouldn't have been kicked out, but I do not feel bad for her at all.

[SkinnyBenny]

best buds

[DQ12]

best buds

while i have you, have you seen those funny or die "Zack Morris is Trash" videos?  They're amazing.  The titles of the videos alone are worth it:

"The Time Zack Morris Sold Swimsuit Photos of Underage Girls"
"The Time Zack Morris Told Everyone Slater was Dying So He'd Move to Hawaii," and my personal favorite
"The Time Zack Morris Gave Himself a Homeless Girl for Christmas"

[ChiComCat]

best buds

while i have you, have you seen those funny or die "Zack Morris is Trash" videos?  They're amazing.  The titles of the videos alone are worth it:

"The Time Zack Morris Sold Swimsuit Photos of Underage Girls"
"The Time Zack Morris Told Everyone Slater was Dying So He'd Move to Hawaii," and my personal favorite
"The Time Zack Morris Gave Himself a Homeless Girl for Christmas"

My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed them last weekend

[420seriouscat69]

OMG, where are these?

[DQ12]

have you seen those funny or die "Zack Morris is Trash" videos? 

OMG, where are these?

[420seriouscat69]

Oh, haha. Thanks!

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

People are talking about whether it was right or wrong for Alabama to fight racism in the form of expelling her, instead of how this girl showed up from NJ and subsequently became a public racist, emboldened by now being part of "the south" and specifically U of Alabama and seemingly cheered on by at least 2 fellow students.

People are talking about both.  Both are issues worth discussing.

I haven't seen much about what a hellhole the university, state and region must be for that student to have done what she did and felt like it was the natural behavior of her new home.

I think pretty much every college has had incidents like this -- be they blackface, k-state's "Kool Kids Klub," or whatever.  I think this speaks much more about this girl and her upbringing than it does about the university or the region. 

She's not even from Alabama.  Her perception of what "the South" is is what made her feel emboldened.

Pro Tip: there are a fuckload of racists in the Northeast.

Blaming Alabama for "emboldening her" is the retardiest thing I've seen. It would make more sense to blame Jersey Shore for emboldening her to scream whatever stupid crap was on her mind into the internet.

[MakeItRain]

I'd argue that Bama has no legal right to (and therefore should not) do anything about it, but I'm admittedly a 1st amendment extremist.  Today it's kicking someone out for over the top vile racist speech, tomorrow it is for failure to include a proper trigger warning on the Snapchat of a discussion of abuse, and next week it is for speaking negatively about the president. The amendment must be applied in all cases, not on a sliding scale of current popularity.

As an aside, her Sorority isn't a state institution and should clearly kick her out.

it probably goes without saying, but you and i share identical views on this.

notably, i think the disagreement in the argument is here:

I'd argue that Bama has no legal right to (and therefore should not) do anything about it

While this viewpoint may be legally correct and even morally so, it is also a viewpoint made from a position of privilege. I mean it seems as if you guys can't even grasp the implications for the minority students on the campus. In the real world if you feel like your safety is compromised you aren't going to weigh the first amendment rights of the offender. The university doing nothing about this opens a much bigger Pandora's box, than the laughable one you two are proposing of this turning into an open door for governments to violate our first amendment rights. It's ignoring the very obvious point that universities are not exactly the government.

Viewing the university punishing this girl the same as state sponsored censorship is amazingly nearsighted and narrow. Kansas State University and Manhattan Christian College share essentially the same address, the same function, and the same mission. The thought that they be required to treat this situation completely differently because one receives more funding from the state than the other is silly. No need to cite case law proving me wrong, I'm not interested, common sense can prevail here. The president of a state university operates completely outside of three branches of government. University officials aren't government agents, acting like they are similar in scope to actual an actual government entity is laughable. The University of Alabama expelling this girl is nothing like the Alabama lieutenant governor deciding ban flag burning in the state is a punishable offense the implication that they are similar doesn't pass the sniff test.

Feel free to be a 1st amendment extremist if you'd like, but while doing so you'll have to live with the fact that doing so, essentially provides a further buffer for the protected class in this country.