Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 4874631 times)

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Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22575 on: November 21, 2012, 09:26:04 AM »
Lots of great, often overlooked expansion counterpoints in here.

http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2012/11/madness-of-big-ten-expansion.html

Good read.

Wrong. It's mostly stupid article that misses the whole motivation as to why Univ. Presidents - especially those of public schools - are willing to move forward with these decisions. Their hand is being forced.

As I said last year:
Quote
2.) The future of higher educations has DRASTICALLY changed in the last 5-10 years. What IS the future environment for many higher education institutions? Decreasing contributions from their respective states - at an accelerating rate. More pressure to lower tuition. Decreasing contributions from Fed gov. research funding. Our Govt's, Fed and state, are all broke. Why do you think UT is holding on the LHN like it has been? Financial support from the academic side for athletic activities is no longer feasible. Self-sustaining athletic programs and even profitable programs giving back to the academic side is how many of these UPs envision supporting their schools' academic mission...

What you quoted is true.  The academic side probably can't afford to subsidize the athletic side, at least in most cases.  Maryland is making this move because the previous AD put them into so much debt that they have no choice but to go for a cash grab.  The Maryland president was very clear that "someone has to pay the bills".  They are taking a very large donation to help create future cash flow that will help service their debt.  They had no choice.

I think what the article is saying is that the Big Ten is putting all of their chips into the cable TV pot, and college athletics is risking diluting its brand for the sake of cash now, while market trends are saying the old model may actually work better in the post-cable future.

No one really knows what the answer will be.



Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22576 on: November 21, 2012, 09:29:16 AM »
How do $100M stadium renovations financially support academics?

Depends on how the the $100MM stadium renovations are done.  If they are done like Maryland did their's, by going into massive debt, they don't.  If you do it like we are doing ours, with alot more in donations and pledges, they can help.  If the people donating would have just donated that $100MM to academics, then academics would be better off without the $100MM renovations.  However, the truth is most of that $100MM would have just stayed in the donors pockets.  If you have the donors build you a facility that creates a future cash stream that could funnel back into academics, it helps. 
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Offline felix rex

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Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22577 on: November 21, 2012, 09:36:21 AM »
Guys, what if Internet ends conferences entirely? I mean, people are getting rich of that YouTube.
"How will I recruit to Manhattan? Well, distance. And the proud state of basketball. It start there, and then daily flights to Dallas, because I'm really good at going out. Like top five good. Ask my wife. She wants me to be happy."

Offline EMAWesome

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22578 on: November 21, 2012, 09:42:46 AM »
Am I the only one that thinks this is just a run on an active 'bubble' like the dot.com bubble, or the housing market bubble? I mean, it is pretty clear to see that this is just that, and the bubble is going to pop at some point. There simply aren't enough players for ESPN to bid against for them to justify these Billion dollar TV deals...until or unless the NBC Sports Network and others come into the fold as serious Sports providers. This is all happening so fast & is so reactionary because people see it as a window that is closing, and once the bubble bursts, if you hadn't made your cash grab, there won't be any more cash left to grab...

Offline mocat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22579 on: November 21, 2012, 09:46:21 AM »
<--- pretty excited to see a 1000 page thread

Offline Super PurpleCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22580 on: November 21, 2012, 09:48:15 AM »
How do $100M stadium renovations financially support academics?



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Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22581 on: November 21, 2012, 09:58:01 AM »
How do $100M stadium renovations financially support academics?



"Dr. Wefald, you only have to hit your button one time."

Out of context.  The thought expressed was that the rich athletic department will start directly funding academic departments.  This would be a huge departure from what they now appear to be interested in doing, which is just blowing huge wads of cash.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22582 on: November 21, 2012, 10:05:43 AM »
Am I the only one that thinks this is just a run on an active 'bubble' like the dot.com bubble, or the housing market bubble? I mean, it is pretty clear to see that this is just that, and the bubble is going to pop at some point. There simply aren't enough players for ESPN to bid against for them to justify these Billion dollar TV deals...until or unless the NBC Sports Network and others come into the fold as serious Sports providers. This is all happening so fast & is so reactionary because people see it as a window that is closing, and once the bubble bursts, if you hadn't made your cash grab, there won't be any more cash left to grab...

The problem with this is that conferences like the BigTen are already seeing actual value in the contracts.  The dot.com bubble came from investors thinking that these websites were going to create future value out of an unproven business model.  The BigTen is already making money off their own network.  They already get paid something like $.75 per cable subscriber that has their network.  They already have established what they can get from ad revenue based on how many households get those ads.  That ad money isn't going to go down.  Live sports advertising costs are at a premium because thats about the only thing people don't TiVo and FF through the ads later.  It's a much more established business model.  The housing bubble was created by millions of stupid Americans buying houses they couldn't afford because stupid, greedy bankers were giving them loans.  Unless people just decide to stop watching live FB, the revenue stream isn't going away.  The bubble may burst someday if viewership goes down, but it won't nearly as hard as the dot.com or housing.  College TV contracts aren't built on a house of unproven business model cards. 
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Offline EMAWican

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22583 on: November 21, 2012, 10:13:11 AM »
How do $100M stadium renovations financially support academics?

Depends on how the the $100MM stadium renovations are done.  If they are done like Maryland did their's, by going into massive debt, they don't.  If you do it like we are doing ours, with alot more in donations and pledges, they can help.  If the people donating would have just donated that $100MM to academics, then academics would be better off without the $100MM renovations.  However, the truth is most of that $100MM would have just stayed in the donors pockets.  If you have the donors build you a facility that creates a future cash stream that could funnel back into academics, it helps.

How much money has been donated to athletics directly from the conference shake-up?  You have schools like meth aggie and cult aggie whose donors/alum want to make an impression and to "fit-in" donating money to athletics that they never donated while in the Big XII.  You can even claim that Baylor's new stadium, ISU's expansion, Tech's expansion, TCU's expansion, our expansion, KU attempting to remove the track for real this time, etc. is all thanks to conference expansion. This "new" athletic money from the perception of being left out, attempting to match facilities, developing a more marketable product, etc. will probably translate into a substantially larger cash stream into academics.  The bar has been raised and all it means is free money for the schools.

Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22584 on: November 21, 2012, 10:36:33 AM »
Am I the only one that thinks this is just a run on an active 'bubble' like the dot.com bubble, or the housing market bubble? I mean, it is pretty clear to see that this is just that, and the bubble is going to pop at some point. There simply aren't enough players for ESPN to bid against for them to justify these Billion dollar TV deals...until or unless the NBC Sports Network and others come into the fold as serious Sports providers. This is all happening so fast & is so reactionary because people see it as a window that is closing, and once the bubble bursts, if you hadn't made your cash grab, there won't be any more cash left to grab...

The problem with this is that conferences like the BigTen are already seeing actual value in the contracts.  The dot.com bubble came from investors thinking that these websites were going to create future value out of an unproven business model.  The BigTen is already making money off their own network.  They already get paid something like $.75 per cable subscriber that has their network.  They already have established what they can get from ad revenue based on how many households get those ads.  That ad money isn't going to go down.  Live sports advertising costs are at a premium because thats about the only thing people don't TiVo and FF through the ads later.  It's a much more established business model.  The housing bubble was created by millions of stupid Americans buying houses they couldn't afford because stupid, greedy bankers were giving them loans.  Unless people just decide to stop watching live FB, the revenue stream isn't going away.  The bubble may burst someday if viewership goes down, but it won't nearly as hard as the dot.com or housing.  College TV contracts aren't built on a house of unproven business model cards.

There may be some merit to the idea that some conferences are overextending themselves, though.  The first reports of the SEC's new contract offer after adding A&M and Missouri were that it was underwhelming at best.  And I don't know if this Nate Silver post was linked here yet:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/expanding-eastward-could-dilute-big-ten-brand/

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22586 on: November 21, 2012, 10:41:20 AM »
http://www.omaha.com/article/20121120/HUSKERS/711209899

OPTIONS!!

I kind of feel sorry for KU fans to be given hope where none exists.
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Offline steve dave

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22588 on: November 21, 2012, 10:48:58 AM »
Lee is pretty good. NU fans hate him and make the same barf joke all the time. He picked NU second when they split that NC, lol.

Offline AbeFroman

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22589 on: November 21, 2012, 10:50:33 AM »
I don't care, I know nothing about him and want to make fun of his name like a 12 year old kid.  :flush:

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Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22590 on: November 21, 2012, 11:06:12 AM »
http://www.omaha.com/article/20121120/HUSKERS/711209899

OPTIONS!!

Love how he mentions KU, but then says "Now, it's about TV markets, growing population centers and demographic analytics."

Ya, we have growing demographics in Kansas. 

Offline Dr Rick Daris

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22591 on: November 21, 2012, 11:17:43 AM »
i liked it when he said "Much of the conference expansion the past five years involved “legacy” football programs with big stadiums and full trophy cases. Case in point, Nebraska."



ummmm... no it wasn't. utah and colorado to the pac? mu and a&m to the sec? pitt and syracuse to the acc? the only big name "legacy" football program that was involved with any kind of movement was nebraska and they were only involved because of how butthurt they were that they couldn't beat texas.


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Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22592 on: November 21, 2012, 11:26:22 AM »
Ya, this barf guy is full of crap.  But, if NU fans hate him, I am inclined to like him.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22593 on: November 21, 2012, 11:44:10 AM »
Am I the only one that thinks this is just a run on an active 'bubble' like the dot.com bubble, or the housing market bubble? I mean, it is pretty clear to see that this is just that, and the bubble is going to pop at some point. There simply aren't enough players for ESPN to bid against for them to justify these Billion dollar TV deals...until or unless the NBC Sports Network and others come into the fold as serious Sports providers. This is all happening so fast & is so reactionary because people see it as a window that is closing, and once the bubble bursts, if you hadn't made your cash grab, there won't be any more cash left to grab...

The problem with this is that conferences like the BigTen are already seeing actual value in the contracts.  The dot.com bubble came from investors thinking that these websites were going to create future value out of an unproven business model.  The BigTen is already making money off their own network.  They already get paid something like $.75 per cable subscriber that has their network.  They already have established what they can get from ad revenue based on how many households get those ads.  That ad money isn't going to go down.  Live sports advertising costs are at a premium because thats about the only thing people don't TiVo and FF through the ads later.  It's a much more established business model.  The housing bubble was created by millions of stupid Americans buying houses they couldn't afford because stupid, greedy bankers were giving them loans.  Unless people just decide to stop watching live FB, the revenue stream isn't going away.  The bubble may burst someday if viewership goes down, but it won't nearly as hard as the dot.com or housing.  College TV contracts aren't built on a house of unproven business model cards.

There may be some merit to the idea that some conferences are overextending themselves, though.  The first reports of the SEC's new contract offer after adding A&M and Missouri were that it was underwhelming at best.  And I don't know if this Nate Silver post was linked here yet:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/expanding-eastward-could-dilute-big-ten-brand/

What Silver points out feeds the bubble concept.  If the cable TV model goes the way of a la carte and/or Internet distribution (i.e. K-State HD TV), they won't be able to make all of that money off of the 'scam', and you will need people to purchase your content, specifically.  That may mean Maryland and Rutgers, eventually, will be net losers because all of that money you're getting for carriage rates will go away, and you'll be asking those few Rutgers and Maryland fans (few relative to the state populations) to pay that cash for BTN every month.  So, if that's the case, how many millions of viewers go away?  How much money does that equate to, especially once you factor in how much less each team gets after the split?

I think, for us, our 'risk' in this area is minimal because the major platforms we're broadcasting tier 1 and tier 2 content on aren't going away.  People will buy ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU in most of their a la carte packages.  Most folks will purchase access to FSN Kansas City or FSN Midwest because there is overlap with other sports teams they watch (i.e. Royals, Cardinals, Blues, etc.).

However, the other 'risk' is that this bubble doesn't burst, and we're left holding the bag in 13 years.


Offline EMAWesome

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22594 on: November 21, 2012, 11:55:03 AM »
Am I the only one that thinks this is just a run on an active 'bubble' like the dot.com bubble, or the housing market bubble? I mean, it is pretty clear to see that this is just that, and the bubble is going to pop at some point. There simply aren't enough players for ESPN to bid against for them to justify these Billion dollar TV deals...until or unless the NBC Sports Network and others come into the fold as serious Sports providers. This is all happening so fast & is so reactionary because people see it as a window that is closing, and once the bubble bursts, if you hadn't made your cash grab, there won't be any more cash left to grab...

The problem with this is that conferences like the BigTen are already seeing actual value in the contracts.  The dot.com bubble came from investors thinking that these websites were going to create future value out of an unproven business model.  The BigTen is already making money off their own network.  They already get paid something like $.75 per cable subscriber that has their network.  They already have established what they can get from ad revenue based on how many households get those ads.  That ad money isn't going to go down.  Live sports advertising costs are at a premium because thats about the only thing people don't TiVo and FF through the ads later.  It's a much more established business model.  The housing bubble was created by millions of stupid Americans buying houses they couldn't afford because stupid, greedy bankers were giving them loans.  Unless people just decide to stop watching live FB, the revenue stream isn't going away.  The bubble may burst someday if viewership goes down, but it won't nearly as hard as the dot.com or housing.  College TV contracts aren't built on a house of unproven business model cards.

There may be some merit to the idea that some conferences are overextending themselves, though.  The first reports of the SEC's new contract offer after adding A&M and Missouri were that it was underwhelming at best.  And I don't know if this Nate Silver post was linked here yet:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/expanding-eastward-could-dilute-big-ten-brand/

What Silver points out feeds the bubble concept.  If the cable TV model goes the way of a la carte and/or Internet distribution (i.e. K-State HD TV), they won't be able to make all of that money off of the 'scam', and you will need people to purchase your content, specifically.  That may mean Maryland and Rutgers, eventually, will be net losers because all of that money you're getting for carriage rates will go away, and you'll be asking those few Rutgers and Maryland fans (few relative to the state populations) to pay that cash for BTN every month.  So, if that's the case, how many millions of viewers go away?  How much money does that equate to, especially once you factor in how much less each team gets after the split?

I think, for us, our 'risk' in this area is minimal because the major platforms we're broadcasting tier 1 and tier 2 content on aren't going away.  People will buy ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU in most of their a la carte packages.  Most folks will purchase access to FSN Kansas City or FSN Midwest because there is overlap with other sports teams they watch (i.e. Royals, Cardinals, Blues, etc.).

However, the other 'risk' is that this bubble doesn't burst, and we're left holding the bag in 13 years.

Nate Silver is a wicked smart dude, this link here to a study he did last year is a little depressing



http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22595 on: November 21, 2012, 12:01:33 PM »
Hey, if ku gets an invite to the BiG, all the power to them . . . but with NC and ku . . . apparently the BiG is wanting to make a bigger splash in Basketball.   

Plus North Carolina is the de facto leader of the ACC, that school and their fanbase is ingrained in the ACC.   Sure, some say Maryland was a charter member in the ACC, but I've lived in ACC for too long, and Maryland has always been a fringe school, outside of the Tobacco Road Powerbase of the conference. 

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22596 on: November 21, 2012, 12:11:47 PM »
Am I the only one that thinks this is just a run on an active 'bubble' like the dot.com bubble, or the housing market bubble? I mean, it is pretty clear to see that this is just that, and the bubble is going to pop at some point. There simply aren't enough players for ESPN to bid against for them to justify these Billion dollar TV deals...until or unless the NBC Sports Network and others come into the fold as serious Sports providers. This is all happening so fast & is so reactionary because people see it as a window that is closing, and once the bubble bursts, if you hadn't made your cash grab, there won't be any more cash left to grab...

The problem with this is that conferences like the BigTen are already seeing actual value in the contracts.  The dot.com bubble came from investors thinking that these websites were going to create future value out of an unproven business model.  The BigTen is already making money off their own network.  They already get paid something like $.75 per cable subscriber that has their network.  They already have established what they can get from ad revenue based on how many households get those ads.  That ad money isn't going to go down.  Live sports advertising costs are at a premium because thats about the only thing people don't TiVo and FF through the ads later.  It's a much more established business model.  The housing bubble was created by millions of stupid Americans buying houses they couldn't afford because stupid, greedy bankers were giving them loans.  Unless people just decide to stop watching live FB, the revenue stream isn't going away.  The bubble may burst someday if viewership goes down, but it won't nearly as hard as the dot.com or housing.  College TV contracts aren't built on a house of unproven business model cards.

There may be some merit to the idea that some conferences are overextending themselves, though.  The first reports of the SEC's new contract offer after adding A&M and Missouri were that it was underwhelming at best.  And I don't know if this Nate Silver post was linked here yet:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/20/expanding-eastward-could-dilute-big-ten-brand/

What Silver points out feeds the bubble concept.  If the cable TV model goes the way of a la carte and/or Internet distribution (i.e. K-State HD TV), they won't be able to make all of that money off of the 'scam', and you will need people to purchase your content, specifically.  That may mean Maryland and Rutgers, eventually, will be net losers because all of that money you're getting for carriage rates will go away, and you'll be asking those few Rutgers and Maryland fans (few relative to the state populations) to pay that cash for BTN every month.  So, if that's the case, how many millions of viewers go away?  How much money does that equate to, especially once you factor in how much less each team gets after the split?

I think, for us, our 'risk' in this area is minimal because the major platforms we're broadcasting tier 1 and tier 2 content on aren't going away.  People will buy ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU in most of their a la carte packages.  Most folks will purchase access to FSN Kansas City or FSN Midwest because there is overlap with other sports teams they watch (i.e. Royals, Cardinals, Blues, etc.).

However, the other 'risk' is that this bubble doesn't burst, and we're left holding the bag in 13 years.

A la carte isn't going to happen. It makes no financial sense for anyone, including the consumer. Consumers just need to STFU because they're a bunch of retards that have no idea what they're talking about.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22597 on: November 21, 2012, 12:14:46 PM »
Nate Silver is a wicked smart dude, this link here to a study he did last year is a little depressing



http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

That report is totally wrong.  Ga Tech does not have more fans than Georgia.  Auburn does not have more fans than Bama. Kansas does not have twice as many football fans as Kansas State.  Nate Silver may be good at politics.

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22598 on: November 21, 2012, 01:05:51 PM »
A la carte isn't going to happen. It makes no financial sense for anyone, including the consumer. Consumers just need to STFU because they're a bunch of retards that have no idea what they're talking about.

Why?

Offline chum1

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #22599 on: November 21, 2012, 01:22:01 PM »
Nate Silver is a wicked smart dude, this link here to a study he did last year is a little depressing



http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-geography-of-college-football-fans-and-realignment-chaos/

That report is totally wrong.  Ga Tech does not have more fans than Georgia.  Auburn does not have more fans than Bama. Kansas does not have twice as many football fans as Kansas State.  Nate Silver may be good at politics.

How is it totally wrong based on that?  Does he need to get it totally right to support his thesis?