Author Topic: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....  (Read 4914999 times)

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19150 on: May 14, 2012, 02:39:07 PM »
Radio guy out of Raleigh reiterated that FSU Trustee had it all wrong in terms of Tier III, and re-affirmed that every TV contract has a ramp up over time.   I didn't get to listen to much, but the guy did hint around that FSU did have some beefs, but the guy also runs the ACC sports journal so he's got big skin in the game.


Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19151 on: May 14, 2012, 02:40:42 PM »
The Sunshine Law. That's why the ACC isn't giving Florida State terms of the contract. goEMAW legal team get on researching that weird law!

Its basically some sort of Freedom of information act that goes a step further and makes it nearly impossible for anyone associated with state schools to have secret meetings. That is why Clemson set up the expansion committee.

It will show precisely what Yahoo Sports already reported....that the "average" dollar amount per year is a joke.  Until 2021, ACC teams will make around $12M per year. 

Chip Brown and others are reporting that a 12 team Big 12 with FSU and the likes of Clemson, would pull north of $20M per year from day 1 of the new contract.


THAT is what the ACC doesn't want getting out, but it's too late.

That's also why Notre Dame is in play.

That 12 team configuration is easily worth $24 million a year per school BEFORE Tier 1 rights.  If that's the case, Texas, after you factor in the LHN, will get $39 million a year (floor) from TV revenue alone.  Notre Dame could go from $15 million per yer in their current NBC deal to somewhere north of $35 million.

THAT is why ND will join if:
1) We pull this off
2) The Big East crumbles (which it will after the ACC raids the Big East for two more)
3) The playoff doesn't make special considerations for ND

The prospect of playing Texas every single year in a major conference game on Thanksgiving, while giving them regular access to Florida State, West Virginia, Pitt, Oklahoma, etc. is enough to make ESPN go insane.

The other thing to take into consideration is that the Big Ten may be looking at dumping ESPN altogether here in a few years.  When their rights go up, there is a strong chance that NBC or Fox could outbid them for Tier 1.  If that's the case, CBS will own Tier 1 for the SEC, Fox or NBC could own Tier 1 for the Big Ten, and ABC could be left with just the Big 12 and Pac-12 on Saturdays.  For that reason, they're going to want to make a monster conference that they can use for a national 2:30 time slot that rivals CBS and whatever the Big Ten lands on.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19152 on: May 14, 2012, 02:43:27 PM »
In addition, the upcoming Big Ten/Pac-12 alliance means that after 2017, the Big Ten and Pac-12 teams will have ten games a year spoken for.  Period.  The Big Ten is going to a nine game conference schedule in 2017 to match what the Pac-12 has.  Factor in that every single one of those teams will play one FCS scrub for the cheap win, and Stanford, Purdue, Michigan, Mich St., USC, etc. will only have one non-con game to give every year, and I highly doubt that they'll want it to be Notre Dame.  They'll want it to be some Mountain West/C-USA/MAC/Sun Belt scrub that they can kick around.

Offline ben ji

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19153 on: May 14, 2012, 02:46:57 PM »
In addition, the upcoming Big Ten/Pac-12 alliance means that after 2017, the Big Ten and Pac-12 teams will have ten games a year spoken for.  Period.  The Big Ten is going to a nine game conference schedule in 2017 to match what the Pac-12 has.  Factor in that every single one of those teams will play one FCS scrub for the cheap win, and Stanford, Purdue, Michigan, Mich St., USC, etc. will only have one non-con game to give every year, and I highly doubt that they'll want it to be Notre Dame.  They'll want it to be some Mountain West/C-USA/MAC/Sun Belt scrub that they can kick around.

Hmmm, very interesting, hadnt thought about the new BIG/PAC12 alliance impacting ND's schedule.

Offline SkinnyBenny

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19154 on: May 14, 2012, 02:56:51 PM »
BITB says FSU prez has released a memo.

Lists 4 benefits to leaving the Big 12.
Lists 7 reasons to stay in the ACC.

Some reasons for staying, according to the FSU prez:
-Faculty would be pissed about going to an academically weaker league
-They might lose the rivalry with Miami
-"The ACC is an equal revenue sharing league; Big 12 isn't. What would our fans think when they see Texas making all this money?" BITB sez the FSU prez doesn't realize they'd be the second highest-paid.
"walking around mhk and crying in the rain because of love lost is the absolute purest and best thing in the world.  i hope i fall in love during the next few weeks and get my heart broken and it starts raining just to experience it one last time."   --Dlew12

Offline BMWWcat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19155 on: May 14, 2012, 02:58:57 PM »
Isn't the new deal that we all get equal revenue?

"I want to assure you that any decision made about FSU athletics will be reasoned and thoughtful and based on athletics, finances, and academics. Allow me to provide you with some of the issues we are facing:

"In support of a move are four basic factors argued by many alumni:

1. The ACC is more basketball than it is football, and many of our alumni view us as more football oriented than the ACC.

2. The ACC is too North Carolina centric and the contract advantages basketball and hence advantages the North Carolina schools.

3. The Big 12 has some big football schools that mat up with FSU

4. The Big 12 contract (which actually isn't signed yet) is rumored to be $2.9 million more per year than the ACC contract. We need this money to be competitive.

"But in contrast,:

1. The information presented about the ACC contract that initiated the blogosphere discussion was not correct. The ACC is an equal share conference and this applies to football and to basketball -- there is no preferential treatment of any university with the exception of 3rd tier rights for women's basketball and Olympic sports. FSU is advantaged by that aspect of the contract over the majority of other ACC schools.

2. Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12, at least in part because the Big 12 is not an equal share conference. Texas has considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share (and I say this as a former dean at the University of Texas at Austin -- I watched the Big 12 disintegration with interest). So, when fans realize that Texas would get more dollars than FSU, always having a competitive advantage, it would be interesting to see the fan reaction.

3. Much is being made of the extra $2.9 million that the Big 12 contract (which hasn't been inked yet) gets over the ACC contract. Given that the Texas schools are expected to play each other (the Big 12 is at least as Texas centered as the ACC is North Carolina centered), the most likely scenario has FSU playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia on a recurring basis and the other teams sporadically (and one more unnamed team has to join to allow the Big 12 to regain a championship game), we realize that our sports teams can no longer travel by bus to most games -- the estimate is that the travel by plane required by FSU to be in the Big 12 appears to exceed the $2.9 million difference in the contract -- actually giving us fewer dollars than we have now to be competitive with the Big 12 teams, who obviously do not have to travel as far. Any renegotiated amount depends not just on FSU by the caliber of any other new team to the Big 12.

4. Few believe that the above teams will fill our stadium with fans of these teams so our lack of sales and ticket revenue would continue.

5. We would lose the rivalry with the University of Miami that does fill our stadium.

6. It will cost between $20 million and $25 million to leave the ACC -- we have no idea where that money would come from. It would have to come from the boosters which currently are unable to support our current University athletic budget, hence the 2% cut in that budget.

7. The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker -- and in fact, many of them resent the fact that a 2% ($2.4 million) deficit in the athletics budget receives so much attention from concerned Seminoles, but the loss of 25% of the academic budget ($105 million) gets none when it is the most critical concern of this University in terms of its successful future.

"I present these issues to you so that you realize that this is not so simple (not to mention that negotiations aren't even taking place). One of the few wise comments made in the blogosphere is that no one negotiates their future in the media. We can't afford to have conference affiliation by governed by emotion -- it has to be based on a careful assessment of athletics, finances, and academics. I assure you that every aspect of conference affiliation will be looked at by this institution, but it must be a reasoned decision."
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Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19156 on: May 14, 2012, 02:59:47 PM »
BITB says FSU prez has released a memo.

Lists 4 benefits to leaving the Big 12.
Lists 7 reasons to stay in the ACC.

Some reasons for staying, according to the FSU prez:
-Faculty would be pissed about going to an academically weaker league
-They might lose the rivalry with Miami
-"The ACC is an equal revenue sharing league; Big 12 isn't. What would our fans think when they see Texas making all this money?" BITB sez the FSU prez doesn't realize they'd be the second highest-paid.

Ya, they are killing their prez on warchant.com.  Half "knows" he is just playing the game, the other half wants him hung now.

Offline TheHamburglar

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19157 on: May 14, 2012, 03:01:39 PM »
Pan, the BigTen backed out of the 9 game schedule when they made the deal with the Pac-12.  See point 6 in the link.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2011/12/big_ten_pac-12_ok_nonconferenc.html
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Offline my troll name ... Koppe22

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19158 on: May 14, 2012, 03:01:44 PM »
I knew Koppe/YHAHF was a douche, but his work on the Bash is fantastically douchey.

Unkind.
Koppe is a giant idiot bad person for sure but he's nowhere close to as big of an idiot bad person as others.To my knowledge Koppe has never bought an adult trike or talked to a dog whisperer.

Offline p1k3

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19159 on: May 14, 2012, 03:02:48 PM »
i too thought the big 12 was going to equal revenue sharing?

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19160 on: May 14, 2012, 03:04:47 PM »
i too thought the big 12 was going to equal revenue sharing?

Tier 1 and Tier 2 ARE EQUAL AMONG ALL BIG 12 SCHOOLS.  Tier 3 is fair game...every man for himself...which amounts to ONE football game per year and 3-4 basketball games (at most), and whatever other crap you can cobble together and throw on a TV set.

Effectively EQUAL.

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19161 on: May 14, 2012, 03:05:41 PM »
From the Warchant owner, Gene Williams

Quote
But yes, if I can ever find time around all these radio interviews, and get up with a few sources, I plan to address Barron's memo. Let's just say I don't agree with most of it and am shocked a university president would put something like that in print.


Offline "storm"nut

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19162 on: May 14, 2012, 03:11:28 PM »
Seems to me, that you don't address something publicly like that unless you have had the right people asking. Usally the right people (big money donors) get what they want.
RIP Fatty

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19163 on: May 14, 2012, 03:12:00 PM »
I knew Koppe/YHAHF was a douche, but his work on the Bash is fantastically douchey.

Unkind.

Wrong post in my response.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19164 on: May 14, 2012, 03:13:00 PM »
Pan, the BigTen backed out of the 9 game schedule when they made the deal with the Pac-12.  See point 6 in the link.

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2011/12/big_ten_pac-12_ok_nonconferenc.html

Right post to respond to.

Good to know.

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19165 on: May 14, 2012, 03:14:52 PM »
From the Warchant owner, Gene Williams

Quote
But yes, if I can ever find time around all these radio interviews, and get up with a few sources, I plan to address Barron's memo. Let's just say I don't agree with most of it and am shocked a university president would put something like that in print.

That memo was a sign of weakness.  The tsunami has started and he's trying to counteract it.

I don't think he's plausibly trying to deny anything.  FSU people are saying he genuinely wants to stay in the ACC, and he's going to be vocal about it.

He's going to die on this hill, though.  You never win against the Board of Trustees and the money.  Never.  University Presidents can be replaced.  It's much easier to replace him than rebuild their football brand after they get relegated to what's essentially mid-major status. 

Offline p1k3

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19166 on: May 14, 2012, 03:19:41 PM »
i too thought the big 12 was going to equal revenue sharing?

Tier 1 and Tier 2 ARE EQUAL AMONG ALL BIG 12 SCHOOLS.  Tier 3 is fair game...every man for himself...which amounts to ONE football game per year and 3-4 basketball games (at most), and whatever other crap you can cobble together and throw on a TV set.

Effectively EQUAL.

Oh yeah thats right. I'd be livid if I was an FSU fan too.

They're all like ,"WE HAVE OPTIONS!!!!"

Offline MadCat

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19167 on: May 14, 2012, 03:26:32 PM »


Division names:
Atlantic Coast Division
Southwest Division
Division Ten
Division 8

Offline CNS

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19168 on: May 14, 2012, 03:29:23 PM »
Trail of Tears Rivalry should be pretty legit.

Offline thebigcatbowski

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19169 on: May 14, 2012, 03:34:32 PM »
The other thing to take into consideration is that the Big Ten may be looking at dumping ESPN altogether here in a few years.  When their rights go up, there is a strong chance that NBC or Fox could outbid them for Tier 1.  If that's the case, CBS will own Tier 1 for the SEC, Fox or NBC could own Tier 1 for the Big Ten, and ABC could be left with just the Big 12 and Pac-12 on Saturdays.  For that reason, they're going to want to make a monster conference that they can use for a national 2:30 time slot that rivals CBS and whatever the Big Ten lands on.

Wouldn't NBC want to keep the Notre Dame connection over Big Ten? Effectively creating a bidding war for Big 12 tier 1 rights.

Offline "storm"nut

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19170 on: May 14, 2012, 03:36:51 PM »
The other thing to take into consideration is that the Big Ten may be looking at dumping ESPN altogether here in a few years.  When their rights go up, there is a strong chance that NBC or Fox could outbid them for Tier 1.  If that's the case, CBS will own Tier 1 for the SEC, Fox or NBC could own Tier 1 for the Big Ten, and ABC could be left with just the Big 12 and Pac-12 on Saturdays.  For that reason, they're going to want to make a monster conference that they can use for a national 2:30 time slot that rivals CBS and whatever the Big Ten lands on.

Wouldn't NBC want to keep the Notre Dame connection over Big Ten? Effectively creating a bidding war for Big 12 tier 1 rights.

No but they would put up a fight for the Tier 3 rights and for there new sports network.
RIP Fatty

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19171 on: May 14, 2012, 03:38:17 PM »
Trail of Tears Rivalry should be pretty legit.

Wouldn't that the be the OU game?  Right?

Offline CNS

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19172 on: May 14, 2012, 03:38:55 PM »
Trail of Tears Rivalry should be pretty legit.

Wouldn't that the be the OU game?  Right?

Yes.  Could prob stretch it to OSU too if you wanted to.

Offline thebigcatbowski

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19173 on: May 14, 2012, 03:39:39 PM »
Isn't the new deal that we all get equal revenue?

"I want to assure you that any decision made about FSU athletics will be reasoned and thoughtful and based on athletics, finances, and academics. Allow me to provide you with some of the issues we are facing:

"In support of a move are four basic factors argued by many alumni:

1. The ACC is more basketball than it is football, and many of our alumni view us as more football oriented than the ACC.

2. The ACC is too North Carolina centric and the contract advantages basketball and hence advantages the North Carolina schools.

3. The Big 12 has some big football schools that mat up with FSU

4. The Big 12 contract (which actually isn't signed yet) is rumored to be $2.9 million more per year than the ACC contract. We need this money to be competitive.

"But in contrast,:

1. The information presented about the ACC contract that initiated the blogosphere discussion was not correct. The ACC is an equal share conference and this applies to football and to basketball -- there is no preferential treatment of any university with the exception of 3rd tier rights for women's basketball and Olympic sports. FSU is advantaged by that aspect of the contract over the majority of other ACC schools.

2. Colorado, Missouri, Nebraska and Texas A&M left the Big 12, at least in part because the Big 12 is not an equal share conference. Texas has considerably more resource avenues and gains a larger share (and I say this as a former dean at the University of Texas at Austin -- I watched the Big 12 disintegration with interest). So, when fans realize that Texas would get more dollars than FSU, always having a competitive advantage, it would be interesting to see the fan reaction.

3. Much is being made of the extra $2.9 million that the Big 12 contract (which hasn't been inked yet) gets over the ACC contract. Given that the Texas schools are expected to play each other (the Big 12 is at least as Texas centered as the ACC is North Carolina centered), the most likely scenario has FSU playing Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and West Virginia on a recurring basis and the other teams sporadically (and one more unnamed team has to join to allow the Big 12 to regain a championship game), we realize that our sports teams can no longer travel by bus to most games -- the estimate is that the travel by plane required by FSU to be in the Big 12 appears to exceed the $2.9 million difference in the contract -- actually giving us fewer dollars than we have now to be competitive with the Big 12 teams, who obviously do not have to travel as far. Any renegotiated amount depends not just on FSU by the caliber of any other new team to the Big 12.

4. Few believe that the above teams will fill our stadium with fans of these teams so our lack of sales and ticket revenue would continue.

5. We would lose the rivalry with the University of Miami that does fill our stadium.

6. It will cost between $20 million and $25 million to leave the ACC -- we have no idea where that money would come from. It would have to come from the boosters which currently are unable to support our current University athletic budget, hence the 2% cut in that budget.

7. The faculty are adamantly opposed to joining a league that is academically weaker -- and in fact, many of them resent the fact that a 2% ($2.4 million) deficit in the athletics budget receives so much attention from concerned Seminoles, but the loss of 25% of the academic budget ($105 million) gets none when it is the most critical concern of this University in terms of its successful future.

"I present these issues to you so that you realize that this is not so simple (not to mention that negotiations aren't even taking place). One of the few wise comments made in the blogosphere is that no one negotiates their future in the media. We can't afford to have conference affiliation by governed by emotion -- it has to be based on a careful assessment of athletics, finances, and academics. I assure you that every aspect of conference affiliation will be looked at by this institution, but it must be a reasoned decision."

2. False.
3. Doesn't the Big 12 pay travel expenses? Or did somebody make that up?
5. Why? They'd still have 2 OOC games to use.
6. Big 12 will chip in at least half.
7. And making less money will help the financial situation athletically and academically in what way?

So, he's pretty much spreading misinformation on at least half of those. 

Offline Pete

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Re: Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....
« Reply #19174 on: May 14, 2012, 04:03:59 PM »
That West Virginia "Dude" guy is getting ready to come on right now on www.theticket102.com right now.

He's the one who first had the FSU to Big 12 stuff.