Smoke your cigars and enjoy the band while you can....

[chum1]

Bebee and Bowlsby were dealt super shitty hands. Still, any random idiot could have done what each of them ended up doing. I don't see why we need to conclude that any of this was inevitable.

The real screwup was when Kevin Weiberg tried to get them to start a Big 12 Network and was told to eff off so he went to the Big 10. Which it sounds like it may have been UT and OU's fault as well! But aTm and Nubb definitely gave a lot more balance at the time.

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5338213/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg

Definitely huge. I'd forgotten about that. Weiberg also shares in the failure of the Big 12.

[MakeItRain]

Bebee and Bowlsby were dealt super shitty hands. Still, any random idiot could have done what each of them ended up doing. I don't see why we need to conclude that any of this was inevitable.

The inevitability is/was that if Texas decided to leave there was nothing any commissioner or group of presidents could do to change it and them leaving would create a #Big12isOverParty. The conference did everything possible to make them happy by allowing them to have the Longhorn Network and not share any money from it.

There are so many things that could have been done differently. For example, when the Big 12 was at its peak, it could have been trying to poach schools from other conferences with the promise of big TV money rather than standing pat and while getting poached.

Of course, but the supermajority rule made it very easy for UT and OU to block all of that. And for all of A&M's big talk, administratively they were always with Texas, until they weren't. Nebraska actually were mavericks but definitely for their self-interests and not beneficial to the conference as a whole.

[MakeItRain]

Bebee and Bowlsby were dealt super shitty hands. Still, any random idiot could have done what each of them ended up doing. I don't see why we need to conclude that any of this was inevitable.

The real screwup was when Kevin Weiberg tried to get them to start a Big 12 Network and was told to eff off so he went to the Big 10. Which it sounds like it may have been UT and OU's fault as well! But aTm and Nubb definitely gave a lot more balance at the time.

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5338213/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg

Definitely huge. I'd forgotten about that. Weiberg also shares in the failure of the Big 12.

Wait, what? How?

[michigancat]

He gave up and ran to the Big 10! Sell that network, Kevin!

Probably wasn't really worth a fight though.

[chum1]

Bebee and Bowlsby were dealt super shitty hands. Still, any random idiot could have done what each of them ended up doing. I don't see why we need to conclude that any of this was inevitable.

The real screwup was when Kevin Weiberg tried to get them to start a Big 12 Network and was told to eff off so he went to the Big 10. Which it sounds like it may have been UT and OU's fault as well! But aTm and Nubb definitely gave a lot more balance at the time.

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5338213/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg

Definitely huge. I'd forgotten about that. Weiberg also shares in the failure of the Big 12.

Wait, what? How?

Failure to get buy-in on the network and get everyone on the same page.

Like, each of our commissioners were supposed to be leading the conference. But we talk about how they were instead led by some of the schools. And sometimes we talk about it as though that's not their fault.

[Houstoncat93]

Bebee and Bowlsby were dealt super shitty hands. Still, any random idiot could have done what each of them ended up doing. I don't see why we need to conclude that any of this was inevitable.

The real screwup was when Kevin Weiberg tried to get them to start a Big 12 Network and was told to eff off so he went to the Big 10. Which it sounds like it may have been UT and OU's fault as well! But aTm and Nubb definitely gave a lot more balance at the time.

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5338213/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg

Definitely huge. I'd forgotten about that. Weiberg also shares in the failure of the Big 12.

Wait, what? How?

Failure to get buy-in on the network and get everyone on the same page.

Like, each of our commissioners were supposed to be leading the conference. But we talk about how they were instead led by some of the schools. And sometimes we talk about it as though that's not their fault.

You have the relationship backwards.  The commissioner works for the school Presidents.  Texas has always had their own agenda since blowing up the SWC. No commissioner was going to change that.

[Katpappy]

We were and still are a group of stupid fucks.  We were and still asking to be used and dissolved. 

[chum1]

Bebee and Bowlsby were dealt super shitty hands. Still, any random idiot could have done what each of them ended up doing. I don't see why we need to conclude that any of this was inevitable.

The real screwup was when Kevin Weiberg tried to get them to start a Big 12 Network and was told to eff off so he went to the Big 10. Which it sounds like it may have been UT and OU's fault as well! But aTm and Nubb definitely gave a lot more balance at the time.

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5338213/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg

Definitely huge. I'd forgotten about that. Weiberg also shares in the failure of the Big 12.

Wait, what? How?

Failure to get buy-in on the network and get everyone on the same page.

Like, each of our commissioners were supposed to be leading the conference. But we talk about how they were instead led by some of the schools. And sometimes we talk about it as though that's not their fault.

You have the relationship backwards.  The commissioner works for the school Presidents.  Texas has always had their own agenda since blowing up the SWC. No commissioner was going to change that.

Texas A&M had their own agenda in the SEC until and only until it conflicted with the SEC's agenda. It's all about the conference leadership.

[chum1]

If it was a conference commissioner's job to serve each of the school's presidents individually, the commissioner would do all they could to facilitate the departure of every school that wanted to leave. That's absurd.

[catastrophe]

Commissioners can build coalitions. The problem is, a coalition of UT/OU is quite a bit more powerful than a coalition of all the other Big 12 members.

[michigancat]

Commissioners can build coalitions. The problem is, a coalition of UT/OU is quite a bit more powerful than a coalition of all the other Big 12 members.

To Chum's point, Weiberg should have been twisting the arms of NU and aTm who both sided with UT on the Big12 Network and then got all butthurt when the longhorn network came to be.

With NUBB and aTm on board he maybe could have gotten OU.

[Houstoncat93]

Bebee and Bowlsby were dealt super shitty hands. Still, any random idiot could have done what each of them ended up doing. I don't see why we need to conclude that any of this was inevitable.

The real screwup was when Kevin Weiberg tried to get them to start a Big 12 Network and was told to eff off so he went to the Big 10. Which it sounds like it may have been UT and OU's fault as well! But aTm and Nubb definitely gave a lot more balance at the time.

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5338213/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg

Definitely huge. I'd forgotten about that. Weiberg also shares in the failure of the Big 12.

Wait, what? How?

Failure to get buy-in on the network and get everyone on the same page.

Like, each of our commissioners were supposed to be leading the conference. But we talk about how they were instead led by some of the schools. And sometimes we talk about it as though that's not their fault.

You have the relationship backwards.  The commissioner works for the school Presidents.  Texas has always had their own agenda since blowing up the SWC. No commissioner was going to change that.

Texas A&M had their own agenda in the SEC until and only until it conflicted with the SEC's agenda. It's all about the conference leadership.

That is about the power of A&M relative to the other schools not the leadership of the Commish.

[chum1]

Bebee and Bowlsby were dealt super shitty hands. Still, any random idiot could have done what each of them ended up doing. I don't see why we need to conclude that any of this was inevitable.

The real screwup was when Kevin Weiberg tried to get them to start a Big 12 Network and was told to eff off so he went to the Big 10. Which it sounds like it may have been UT and OU's fault as well! But aTm and Nubb definitely gave a lot more balance at the time.

https://www.oklahoman.com/article/5338213/the-big-12-conference-should-have-listened-to-kevin-weiberg

Definitely huge. I'd forgotten about that. Weiberg also shares in the failure of the Big 12.

Wait, what? How?

Failure to get buy-in on the network and get everyone on the same page.

Like, each of our commissioners were supposed to be leading the conference. But we talk about how they were instead led by some of the schools. And sometimes we talk about it as though that's not their fault.

You have the relationship backwards.  The commissioner works for the school Presidents.  Texas has always had their own agenda since blowing up the SWC. No commissioner was going to change that.

Texas A&M had their own agenda in the SEC until and only until it conflicted with the SEC's agenda. It's all about the conference leadership.

That is about the power of A&M relative to the other schools not the leadership of the Commish.

The other schools have power because of the leadership.

[Houstoncat93]

https://twitter.com/pac12/status/1430966984393457664?s=20

 

[kim carnes]

Guys, this whole thing is probably just an evolutionary process that ends with all the most powerful schools forming one league.  We’re just part of the first wave of schools to be left out.

[PurpleOil]

Dammit

[MakeItRain]

@MakeItRain what do you think of the Pac 12 chances of long term survival?  They appear to be in a precarious spot themselves if the Big 10 were to take their top few schools.

It's decent. I think they should go exclusive with Fox with their next deal so Fox can help them with distribution of their network, right now there's no motivation for FOX to help with that. If the alliance holds and the Big 10 doesn't come for them, they'll be fine. They get high profile games in the central & eastern time zone, and more importantly those teams have to go out west to play. If the alliance is a real thing, which nothing is on paper, not even a press release, so that means it isn't, then they're the big winners here.

Since the alliance isn't actually a real thing, they're exactly where the Big 12 was in 2010. They should expand, just like the Big 12 should have, will they, clearly not.

[WildcatNkilt]

Not sure why anyone is surprised.  PAC 12 doesn't need to do anything until their TV contract comes up.  Also they are probably wanting Texas and OU to suffer in the Big 12 longer as well.  Big 12 is staying together until 2025 unless Texas/OU buy themselves out. 

[Stupid Fitz]

Dammit

I mean, you didn't really believe they were going to come out and say, "welp, the old Bears coach with an amazing mustache gave it away already, but we are going to add Kansas State and Oklahoma State. Any further questions?

[MakeItRain]

Not sure why anyone is surprised.  PAC 12 doesn't need to do anything until their TV contract comes up.  Also they are probably wanting Texas and OU to suffer in the Big 12 longer as well.  Big 12 is staying together until 2025 unless Texas/OU buy themselves out.

Buddy, it's up already, they have to start negotiating that now. They'll start the formal bidding process no later than the summer of '22. It's the exact reason they forced Larry Scott out when they did and picked K instead of Oliver Luck.

[MakeItRain]

https://twitter.com/pac12/status/1430966984393457664?s=20

 

I'm happy about this, I think a revamped Big 12 is going to be a fun conference that will be immensely winable and whenever a new playoff format starts it will be much easier to get in as a top 3 program in the Big 12 than a top 6 programs in the Pac 12. Would visits to Tempe be better than Memphis, hell yes. Would dealing with UCLA fans be much better than dealing with UCF fuckheads, yes! But the Big 12 is our conference and I don't want to move.

[Houstoncat93]

Not sure why anyone is surprised.  PAC 12 doesn't need to do anything until their TV contract comes up.  Also they are probably wanting Texas and OU to suffer in the Big 12 longer as well.  Big 12 is staying together until 2025 unless Texas/OU buy themselves out.

Buddy, it's up already, they have to start negotiating that now. They'll start the formal bidding process no later than the summer of '22. It's the exact reason they forced Larry Scott out when they did and picked K instead of Oliver Luck.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/26/sticking-with-12-no-expansion-for-the-pac-12-at-this-time/

The Pac-12 is examining strategic options in advance of the momentous media rights negotiations, which are expected to begin in approximately 18 months and will herald a new contract cycle in the 2024-25 academic year.

I would have thought your timing was right but Wilner say 18 months which would be late '22 early '23

[Trim]

"At this time" was whenever that statement was issued.  Even if accepted as true, if there's a reason to expand now later in the day or forever going forward, they will.

I still think the orphans (possibly with a couple high-quality additions) with fanbases who care about sports should pitch being an equal or close-to-equal entity that would merge with the pac and its big cities filled with people who don't care.

[MakeItRain]

Not sure why anyone is surprised.  PAC 12 doesn't need to do anything until their TV contract comes up.  Also they are probably wanting Texas and OU to suffer in the Big 12 longer as well.  Big 12 is staying together until 2025 unless Texas/OU buy themselves out.

Buddy, it's up already, they have to start negotiating that now. They'll start the formal bidding process no later than the summer of '22. It's the exact reason they forced Larry Scott out when they did and picked K instead of Oliver Luck.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/08/26/sticking-with-12-no-expansion-for-the-pac-12-at-this-time/

The Pac-12 is examining strategic options in advance of the momentous media rights negotiations, which are expected to begin in approximately 18 months and will herald a new contract cycle in the 2024-25 academic year.

I would have thought your timing was right but Wilner say 18 months which would be late '22 early '23

Wilner is very good at this stuff so I'll take his timeline as one that's very well sourced. Pro sports leagues generally work on timelines that tight but college conferences don't. Must be a change that K is making. That's going to run really close to our negotiating window.

[chum1]

"At this time"

I'm going to continue to hang on to a sliver of hope that Fox will save us with Operation Wannstedt.