State of the State - case closed, money is bad for schools

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

They saved $150,000/yr.  By suspending all sports for an entire high school.  That isn't nothing, but for comparison, one large Kansas district is attempting to save over $1 million/yr by cutting back on the electric bill.

that's total compensation for one tenured California teacher.

did they fire the fball coach who also pretends to teach classes in his spare time?

I don't know about that one, but they were finally able to fire the one that fed at least 81 of his blindfolded students his semen on a cookie. Took a couple of years and the district had to pay him $40,000 to resign. He also cost the district $140 million to settle the lawsuits because they ignored complaints by students and parents over the years. Oh, he also gets his retirement pay while in jail. Union tenure.

[sys]

they were finally able to fire the one that fed at least 81 of his blindfolded students his semen on a cookie. Took a couple of years and the district had to pay him $40,000 to resign. He also cost the district $140 million to settle the lawsuits because they ignored complaints by students and parents over the years. Oh, he also gets his retirement pay while in jail. Union tenure.

i remember that story.  i'm stealing this from adam carolla, but the only adult males that should allowed around children (that aren't there own) are the 99% that want nothing to do with children.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I mean the fact that every major professional group in Kansas didn't support Brownback should have been to tell you neocons he was a sinking ship, these next few years will.  Good news, this will only set Kansas behind states like Oklahoma. 

Its also nice to base your policies on counterfactuals and when those are proven dead wrong go back to change the original narrative or obfuscate the truth with quips. 

Yeah guys lets keep plowing along this road because even though the last few YEARS haven't worked, eventually, maybe, someday, one of Sam's policies might work. How rough ridin' long do these test on taxation and economic policy have to go on before they are proven wrong?  How many more years of failure before with give this up?

Here is the reality, the tax bullshit isn't working.  The state is now going to strip the funding for its most valuable resources to cover that bullshit.  Why would a company move here when the roads are crumbling and we produce citizens with the intellectual capacity of door stops?

Blather blather blather. The best "consequence" of lower taxes you can come up with is "stripping the funding for its msot valuable resources" (not specific enough to even refute), "crumbling roads" (our roads are just fine and we're still doing plenty of maintenance and new construction) and "dumb kids" (whether we spend $12k or $14k per kid doesn't have jackshit to do with how much they learn - it's how you spend it).

But seriously, let's raise taxes. If there's one thing that will draw more people and jobs to Kansas, it's higher...

eff you can't have a conversation can you. 

How many decades of economic data do we need before you admit that slashing taxes like you neo-cons want to do, does nothing to help the economy?  How many sacks do you Laffer Curve nut jobs need dragged across your face before you say you are wrong?

The keynsian European welfare state is clearly the better model!!!!  Real life data proves it!!!!!

It's cute when Edna quips about economics.

Thanks for the strawman instead of defending your decried economics.  I'll take that as a tap out. 


I mean if you really want to get your system against "mine" I'll gladly talk gilded age versus Keynesian.

"Strawman"!!!!

It's cute how the libtards immediate retort to every fact raised that completely undermines their unfounded point of view is "strawman". Never once has that term been correctly used by the libtarded.

We come to Fantasy Land, population partisan drone libtards

I seriously think you're mentally disabled.  Like I hope you live in a group home.

You can't inoculate against a position and then give a textbook definition of that position.  You created an argument to argue against when nothing like it was mentioned.  Its like saying anyone who mentions Godwin doesn't know what the eff he is talking about and then going on a rant about how Germany got so much right in the late 30s and 40s with their "reforms". 

Seriously rough ridin' stupid.

"Slashing taxes does nothing to help the economy" is the premise of what you'd be arguing, so you've already lost.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

My point back a few pages was this absurd notion that keeps getting propagated that increasing education spending automatically improves the education process.   In some cases it only gives administrators license to create more and more worthless administrators who have zero impact on actually improving the education of students. 

Dax the problem is that you have districts like 501 with no tax base, no special local option taxes, etc to fund the schools which have Ipads for every kid to use at recess.  For christ sake Topeka West High School ran out of money for copy paper 5/8th through the school year a few years ago.  You are better, but I know KSUWs, Fakes, and Johns of this board can't see past their white, middle class, suburban privileged noses to see that poor districts are the ones who are hurting. Rural districts are hurting, inner city districts are hurting.  You know how taxes play a role into those equations.  The average per pupil keeps these districts on life support, not spending money like a drunken sailor on ipads.

All school districts are appropriated the same exact amount of money per student, by law. Those that run out of copy paper are egregiously mismanaged by people who can't be fired. What a great system

If the mill levy isn't enough to buy copy paper, they should raise the mill levy.

[Kat Kid]

I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.

My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.

My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.

Your school retains ownership of the iPads or do students?  I'd go ahead and double check the acceptable use contract your son and you signed to be sure you aren't in violation before you fire off that letter to the school board.

No, I didn't explain it properly. Some bring their own electronics from home, but the classroom has iPads that stay there. They don't go home with students. They've got stupid games on them like subway surfer. And teachers are letting them play those games during recess.

You still didn't explain it very well.  Teachers are letting students play with their own electronics during recess?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.

My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.

My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.

Your school retains ownership of the iPads or do students?  I'd go ahead and double check the acceptable use contract your son and you signed to be sure you aren't in violation before you fire off that letter to the school board.

No, I didn't explain it properly. Some bring their own electronics from home, but the classroom has iPads that stay there. They don't go home with students. They've got stupid games on them like subway surfer. And teachers are letting them play those games during recess.

You still didn't explain it very well.  Teachers are letting students play with their own electronics during recess?

If it's outdoor recess, they can play with their own. If it's indoor recess, they can play with the school iPads. The subway surfer game was on one of the school iPads. Who knows what's on the kids own stuff.

[SdK]

Smokers and drinkers (sinners) got this guys. Case closed.

#TheWesIsTheFuture

[Kat Kid]

I think I've come up with a good way to improve student test scores without spending more money. Might even save money.

My young kids go to public school. Supposedly a "good one." Lots of fancy computers and iPads in all the rooms. They let them play video games on them during recess. Not educational "games" but stupid crap like temple run. On school iPads. They're even allowed to bring their own iPads from home , and many kids just play those during outside recess and the bus. Maybe we should actually make kids engage in physical or intellectual activities while at school. Start there.

My son told me the best game on the school iPads is Subway Surfer, a game similar to temple run in which you are a graffiti artist trying to tag trains while being chased by the cops. Nice.

Your school retains ownership of the iPads or do students?  I'd go ahead and double check the acceptable use contract your son and you signed to be sure you aren't in violation before you fire off that letter to the school board.

No, I didn't explain it properly. Some bring their own electronics from home, but the classroom has iPads that stay there. They don't go home with students. They've got stupid games on them like subway surfer. And teachers are letting them play those games during recess.

You still didn't explain it very well.  Teachers are letting students play with their own electronics during recess?

If it's outdoor recess, they can play with their own. If it's indoor recess, they can play with the school iPads. The subway surfer game was on one of the school iPads. Who knows what's on the kids own stuff.

Well parents might want to monitor their kids own devices.

[Kat Kid]

Also, we talking bout recess?  Recess?!

[Stellarcat]

In my school, the kids do get to use the classroom tablets during indoor recess.  They can't bring their own devices.  Teachers HATE indoor recess, though... makes it harder for kids to focus during the rest of the day. 

[michigancat]

everyone hates indoor recess except the uber wealthy at k-s-u's school

[8manpick]

Indoor recess was never the same after they banned pogs because some dorks lost all of theirs fair and square

[ChiComCat]

Indoor recess was never the same after they banned pogs because some dorks lost all of theirs fair and square

Sounds like your school was socialist

[kso_FAN]

Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.

[Kat Kid]

Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.

Would be interested to hear your comments on that fan.

[Skipper44]

YES!  A FAN breakdown of school admin is just what this state needs

[Big Sam]

Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.

However, sports and activities often become the tail that wag the dog.  Kids are passed, protected, and sports are prioritized over academics.  Lazy or crappy teachers are retained and their failings ignored or glossed over due to their status as coaching (not say all coaches are bad teachers, the skills of coaching and teaching are the same, but too many coaches tend to over focus on their extra/co-curricular activities and not their courses).  Classes interrupted or short changed for "school spirit" rituals that are based around sports.

And one cannot take truly evaluate the costs of sports programs due to they way accounting is handled, in part so it is impossible to track total costs (transportation, substitutes, and other assorted costs, including facilities.

Unfortunately, in public schools, too often schools are evaluated on sports, not academics, and those successful at sports and generally equated in the minds of too many as successful academically.

[michigancat]

Literally no one in the world thinks success in sports = success in academics

[06wildcat]

Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.

I don't know that sports are any more beneficial than band, debate, drama etc., all of which generally receive much less funding.

[wetwillie]

Is it out of the question that sports should pay for themselves?    I would think at least football could sustain itself without drawing funds from the school. 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.

I don't know that sports are any more beneficial than band, debate, drama etc., all of which generally receive much less funding.

Because those programs breed socially awkward weirdos, they should be immediately cut and funds reappropriated to sports, science and math.

If you want to do something artistic your choices should be limited to painting, ceramics, shop, home ec, orchestra, and symphony (which is a crap load of choices).

[kso_FAN]

Good comments from KK. Sports are not a huge part of high school budgets and do more good than bad. There are plenty of studies out there that show the benefits to students who participate compared to those that don't. The administrative structure (among other things) of schools is horribly inefficient and a big problem IMO.

I don't know that sports are any more beneficial than band, debate, drama etc., all of which generally receive much less funding.

Yes, I didn't mean to imply that only sports participation helped, those things are just as beneficial to students.

Also, the "coaches are often bad teachers" comment is a meaningless stereotype IMO. My experience has been that there are just as many "bad" teachers that don't participate in any coaching or sponsoring of events.

IMHO participation in athletics is beneficial to students both in academics and behavior in the classroom. I think most coaches are teaching their athletes to be productive students and citizens. There are always going to be programs that are suspect in what they teach their players, but I think for the most part the net benefit of athletic programs far outweighs the negative effects. 

My comment on administration is probably painting with a broad brush. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I think overall schools are often very inefficient in the way they are ran. I'm not advocating that schools are run completely like a business because I don't believe we need to treat students like products or commodities, but I do think school districts need to often look at how the business of doing school is done and find ways to be more efficient. Administration is a big cost in most districts and I think there are tons of overlap in responsibilities. Plus the number of aging and old buildings most school districts spend lots of money to maintain.

Is it out of the question that sports should pay for themselves?    I would think at least football could sustain itself without drawing funds from the school. 

In most bigger districts this is already the case. Its not like the money made from football (or other sports) disappears, it is put back into the athletic budget for the entire school. I'm also guessing the budget is built counting on income from those sports as well.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think schools would get at least twice as efficient if the state would just adopt a law that says that people with children in the district are ineligible to be school board members. That is a blatant conflict of interest, yet I'm betting the percentage is close to 100%.

[wetwillie]

I think schools would get at least twice as efficient if the state would just adopt a law that says that people with children in the district are ineligible to be school board members. That is a blatant conflict of interest, yet I'm betting the percentage is close to 100%.

No one without children in the district would volunteer to be on the school board.

[Kat Kid]

I think schools would get at least twice as efficient if the state would just adopt a law that says that people with children in the district are ineligible to be school board members. That is a blatant conflict of interest, yet I'm betting the percentage is close to 100%.

School boards are very inefficient but they often don't really exercise much control.  School board meetings should not be any reflection on the overall efficiency of a district unless there are really big problems.