No traps for oscar: Tech ADV

[Panjandrum]

I think we should acknowledge that both Nigel and Jevon suck and we should move past the notion that one of them needs to be on the court forty minutes a game.

I'd love to see a JUCO guy come in with Brown and then Jevon and Nigel transfer.  Then save that third open scholarship for 2016.

But I doubt that happens.

[michigancat]

I don't necessarily want them both to transfer, but I also don't think one of them ALWAYS needs to be on the court.

[pissclams]

obvs to me the jury is still out on nigel but he prob does suck but does he suck as bad as jt?  it's hard for me to believe. 
finding a better pg isn't that difficult

[Dub]

I would have liked to see what Nigel could have done with significant PT this last game.  I just don't see him playing much in the next 5 games.

[kso_FAN]

I don't necessarily want them both to transfer, but I also don't think one of them ALWAYS needs to be on the court.

Yeah, the funny thing is that oscar already takes both of them out in close games at the end and leaves Marcus at PG. He could probably afford to do that 10 minutes a game and be okay.

I don't think Jevon is terrible, but he's definitely a work in progress and oscar definitely needs to work to recruit a better player. And I think overall that Jevon is better than Nigel. Both are probably back up PGs at the Big 12 level.

[MakeItRain]

gip needs to figure crap out quickly

jevon- I've seen enough, he is what he is. I'll take Nigel

hurt continues to improve

fingers crossed for Edwards

Wes has upside

Jevon was solid in the 2nd half. I don't understand all the hate on him.

if, as MiR and dave armstrong would have us believe, the OU game was jevon's high water mark, then eff that crap.

Wait, what

[illBisonYourdele]

dont know why but I feel the floor is generally spaced better when Nigel is at the helm.  he also dribbles with his head up (but ducks his shoulders).  to me, Jevon's head is always down, going nowhere, and he seems to crowd the floor with his penetration.  these could be 'set dependent' observations but it is something I have been noticing.

[Reboulet]

I don't necessarily want them both to transfer, but I also don't think one of them ALWAYS needs to be on the court.

Yeah, the funny thing is that oscar already takes both of them out in close games at the end and leaves Marcus at PG. He could probably afford to do that 10 minutes a game and be okay.

I don't think Jevon is terrible, but he's definitely a work in progress and oscar definitely needs to work to recruit a better player. And I think overall that Jevon is better than Nigel. Both are probably back up PGs at the Big 12 level.

I agree, but I wish Marcus would prove he can handle the ball. His turnover at half court vs Tech was very WTF - defender stumbles behind Marcus after almost stealing the ball off his dribble, then comes back and steals the ball from behind. It was as if Marcus thought the guy took a dive over the press table instead of being 3 feet behind him.

[michigancat]

I don't necessarily want them both to transfer, but I also don't think one of them ALWAYS needs to be on the court.

Yeah, the funny thing is that oscar already takes both of them out in close games at the end and leaves Marcus at PG. He could probably afford to do that 10 minutes a game and be okay.

I don't think Jevon is terrible, but he's definitely a work in progress and oscar definitely needs to work to recruit a better player. And I think overall that Jevon is better than Nigel. Both are probably back up PGs at the Big 12 level.

I agree, but I wish Marcus would prove he can handle the ball. His turnover at half court vs Tech was very WTF - defender stumbles behind Marcus after almost stealing the ball off his dribble, then comes back and steals the ball from behind. It was as if Marcus thought the guy took a dive over the press table instead of being 3 feet behind him.

All our guards have had moments like that

[michigancat]

I don't necessarily want them both to transfer, but I also don't think one of them ALWAYS needs to be on the court.

Yeah, the funny thing is that oscar already takes both of them out in close games at the end and leaves Marcus at PG. He could probably afford to do that 10 minutes a game and be okay.

I don't think Jevon is terrible, but he's definitely a work in progress and oscar definitely needs to work to recruit a better player. And I think overall that Jevon is better than Nigel. Both are probably back up PGs at the Big 12 level.

I agree, but I wish Marcus would prove he can handle the ball. His turnover at half court vs Tech was very WTF - defender stumbles behind Marcus after almost stealing the ball off his dribble, then comes back and steals the ball from behind. It was as if Marcus thought the guy took a dive over the press table instead of being 3 feet behind him.

All our guards have had moments like that

Plus it's a great teaching moment for your best player

[Shooter Jones]

i actually really like the lineup of foster, edwards, Westicles, hurt, gip. it makes no sense why, but for short stretches could cause some mismatches.

if foster can bring the ball up, and Westicles has looked decent bringing it up as well, it could be something to eff with here and there.

[dal9]

i'm not hating on him.  he's playing like a 3rd string PG, why can't you admit that?
he needs to get better or get out of the way.  i'm ready to see what nigel can do with the same opportunity that jevon has been given.  he surely can be as mediocre as jevon has been and might turn the ball over less.  possessions are very important for this team. 

Jevon makes passes that Nigel is afraid to/cannot. Sometimes that results in a TO, but most of the time the outcome is good. Jevon also has significantly better handles, and plays better defense. The difference in shooting ability between them is shrinking. It's easy to say Nigel is a better "decision-maker," but really, he is just more low-risk, for better or worse.

[pissclams]

low risk  is better for this team and there is no argument that you could make that it isn't

[kso_FAN]

I try to combine my own eye test with the numbers, and that combination tells me that Jevon and Nigel are capable players as point guards (to an extent). Jevon currently sits at 8.7 assists per 100 and Nigel at 7.6. Granted, I'm not looking at A:TO which is also a helpful number (both need to make significant improvements; Jevon is at 5.5 TO per 100, Nigel at 3.7), but both guys are pretty decent at raw assists when you compare them to other K-State players going back to 2001.

[CNS]

Taking the FAN stats on TO's and Assists and mushing those into my eyes, I would say there is zero reason that Jevon should play any more than Nigel.

[kso_FAN]

Taking the FAN stats on TO's and Assists and mushing those into my eyes, I would say there is zero reason that Jevon should play any more than Nigel.

Yeah, then you see Nigel/Jevon play like they did in Norman and you question yourself. At least I do.

[Shooter Jones]

i'm gonna tuck it in deep here: but, over the last week and a half, i really like the intrinsic values JT brings this team when he is on the floor. i think it was a big part of getting the team out of that funk. to me, he plays w/ more effort, energy, has better interactions w/ teammates, etc.

if the stats are even, i want the guy that brings that on the floor.

[pissclams]

Taking the FAN stats on TO's and Assists and mushing those into my eyes, I would say there is zero reason that Jevon should play any more than Nigel.

you could have just taken my posts in this thread to reach that conclusion, but hey, dumbass is going to dumbass

[CNS]

Sorry, 'clams.  didn't realize you posted in this thread.   Weird. 

[pissclams]

not a big deal at all, i have you on ignore so whatever

[dal9]

anyone know what their +/- or ortg/drtg look like? maybe since conference?

[kso_FAN]

anyone know what their +/- or ortg/drtg look like? maybe since conference?

Jevon's ortg in conference games: 63, 114, 83, 91. 13 assists and 8 turnovers. 18 total points, 4-7 shooting, no 3PAs.
Nigel's ortg in conference games: 62, na, na, 74. 5 assists and 7 turnovers. 9 total points, 3-5 shooting, 1-6 from 3.

[dal9]

anyone know what their +/- or ortg/drtg look like? maybe since conference?

Jevon's ortg in conference games: 63, 114, 83, 91. 13 assists and 8 turnovers. 18 total points, 4-7 shooting, no 3PAs.
Nigel's ortg in conference games: 62, na, na, 74. 5 assists and 7 turnovers. 9 total points, 3-5 shooting, 1-6 from 3.

thanks.  i'm sure the numbers were quite ugly for both in noncon. 

[kso_FAN]

anyone know what their +/- or ortg/drtg look like? maybe since conference?

Jevon's ortg in conference games: 63, 114, 83, 91. 13 assists and 8 turnovers. 18 total points, 4-7 shooting, no 3PAs.
Nigel's ortg in conference games: 62, na, na, 74. 5 assists and 7 turnovers. 9 total points, 3-5 shooting, 1-6 from 3.

thanks.  i'm sure the numbers were quite ugly for both in noncon.

Also, there are no good sources for individual college drtg. And IMO +/- for college is marginal at best and probably meaningless.

[Mixed-Nutz]

Jevon needs to control his turnovers and knock down his free-throws. He would be looked in a completely different light if he did. Believe he is close.