obama is a huge stud - juco edition

[Rage Against the McKee]

My parents didn't do any college savings whatsoever.  I graduated debt free doing it the old fashioned way--having the school pay me to attend.  We teach our kids to look both ways before crossing the street and not to share needles, and yet we have allowed them to become so entitled.  Ridiculous!

That's the thing, tho. I graduated HS w/ a 3.8 and on the National Honor Scoiety, but because I scored low on some dumbass test, I didn't qualify for scholarships (other than baseball schollys at small schools where the tuition was redic).

You could have probably played baseball at a juco for 2 years free of charge and finished college with less than half of the debt, though.

True, but I was young and dumb and I was having horrible arm problems. It was only a matter of time before I had a major problem with my arm. They were feeding me cortisone shots on the reg. Plus, I was really emaw. I was ready to be there.

Did you look into academic scholarships at jucos? Honestly, I think the best thing we can do to fix higher ed is to regulate high school advisers. They should be required to sit down and talk college financials with every high school senior and let them know exactly how much money they can expect to spend depending on what route they take, how much they can expect to earn each month with their degree of choice, how many years it will take to pay off the debt, etc. That didn't happen at all when I was in high school, and it would be very useful to kids whose parents can't or won't help them financially.

[CNS]

WC, with a 3.8, you could have KCKCC'ed for nothing other than the cost to commute.

[420seriouscat69]

I agree. That should be a requirement as well your Freshman year of college. I didn't qualify for scholarships, because I got an 18 three times on the ACT. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

WC, with a 3.8, you could have KCKCC'ed for nothing other than the cost to commute.

Or gone to school at basically any community college in any city of more than 5000 people. Almost all of them have one.

[420seriouscat69]

No one told me that.  Good to know tho. 

[CNS]

I knew quite a few classmates in the high 3.somethings that scored in the mid to high teens on the ACT.  This is a reason that Mich is right about spending the money on primary grades.  If our schools are handing out high gpa's yet not preparing students for ACT's, they aren't doing their jobs and that is a bigger issue than access to juco.  No offense to anyone.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

My parents didn't do any college savings whatsoever.  I graduated debt free doing it the old fashioned way--having the school pay me to attend.  We teach our kids to look both ways before crossing the street and not to share needles, and yet we have allowed them to become so entitled.  Ridiculous!

That's the thing, tho. I graduated HS w/ a 3.8 and on the National Honor Scoiety, but because I scored low on some dumbass test, I didn't qualify for scholarships (other than baseball schollys at small schools where the tuition was redic).

You could have probably played baseball at a juco for 2 years free of charge and finished college with less than half of the debt, though.

True, but I was young and dumb and I was having horrible arm problems. It was only a matter of time before I had a major problem with my arm. They were feeding me cortisone shots on the reg. Plus, I was really emaw. I was ready to be there.

Did you look into academic scholarships at jucos? Honestly, I think the best thing we can do to fix higher ed is to regulate high school advisers. They should be required to sit down and talk college financials with every high school senior and let them know exactly how much money they can expect to spend depending on what route they take, how much they can expect to earn each month with their degree of choice, how many years it will take to pay off the debt, etc. That didn't happen at all when I was in high school, and it would be very useful to kids whose parents can't or won't help them financially.

Excellent suggestion. They also need to mandate a personal finance class in Kansas, like they already do in Missouri.

[CNS]

No one told me that.  Good to know tho. 

Another issue:  HS guidance counselors were absolute crap at my old school.  ours did literally nothing to inform any of us about scholarships, how to get them, etc.  I went in to ask about it and the dumbass said that I was one of only two kids to get with him about scholarships and that it sucked for me because I happened to come to him a week too late to apply for most of them.

I don't know if this is standard, or was standard, but there needs to be much more accountability holding ppl to their jobs in HS and down to help kids prepare for whatever they want in the future. 

[420seriouscat69]

I agree that our HS's do a horrible job of preparing us for post graduation. On many accounts.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I knew quite a few classmates in the high 3.somethings that scored in the mid to high teens on the ACT.  This is a reason that Mich is right about spending the money on primary grades.  If our schools are handing out high gpa's yet not preparing students for ACT's, they aren't doing their jobs and that is a bigger issue than access to juco.  No offense to anyone.

Yeah, something like 15% of my high school class ended up with a 4.0 GPA. That is why colleges can't take your GPA too seriously and have to rely heavily on standardized test scores. That's not a problem that is going to get fixed, especially in smaller communities, as long as parents serve as school board members.

[420seriouscat69]

Benedictine was going to give me like 12k a year to play ball, but it was something like 22k there a year. So it broke down to about the same amount of going to K-state. Plus, i'm pretty sure they wanted to red shirt me, which, you know, would have cost more in the long run.

[Spracne]

I knew quite a few classmates in the high 3.somethings that scored in the mid to high teens on the ACT.  This is a reason that Mich is right about spending the money on primary grades.  If our schools are handing out high gpa's yet not preparing students for ACT's, they aren't doing their jobs and that is a bigger issue than access to juco.  No offense to anyone.

Yeah, something like 20% of my high school class ended up with a 4.0 GPA. That is why colleges can't take your GPA too seriously and have to rely heavily on standardized test scores. That's not a problem that is going to get fixed, especially in smaller communities, as long as parents serve as school board members.

The high school GPA issue is exacerbated by state schools that use GPA threshold as a factor to guarantee admission.  Any person who is not clinically Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) can get a 4.0 in an American public school. 

[420seriouscat69]

 

[420seriouscat69]

Whoever was giving me "A's" in my english classes was rough ridin' drunk.

[Spracne]

I started to type a longer response, but I'll just say that I think the proximate cause for our shitty educational system can be traced ultimately to bad parenting.  It is true that as early as middle school (or even earlier in some cases), students who exhibit high aptitude and motivation are earmarked for success and put on a track different from their peers.  We could argue about whether or not this is a good practice, but that's another discussion. By the time you get to high school, most teachers will reward you with an 'A' merely for exhibiting a desire to pay attention and do your work.  They reward those students with high grades for making their jobs less soul-sucking.  The reality is that the majority of students have no motivation to learn at school and are merely there because it is required.  By the time you get to high school, it's too late.  Habits and attitudes regarding school are developed much earlier than that. The best first grade teacher in the world cannot be effective if those habits and attitudes are undermined at home.  There is certainly room for improvement on the institutional level, but how do you fix shitty parenting?  Abortion tax credits?

[michigancat]

I started to type a longer response, but I'll just say that I think the proximate cause for our shitty educational system can be traced ultimately to bad parenting.  It is true that as early as middle school (or even earlier in some cases), students who exhibit high aptitude and motivation are earmarked for success and put on a track different from their peers.  We could argue about whether or not this is a good practice, but that's another discussion. By the time you get to high school, most teachers will reward you with an 'A' merely for exhibiting a desire to pay attention and do your work.  They reward those students with high grades for making their jobs less soul-sucking.  The reality is that the majority of students have no motivation to learn at school and are merely there because it is required.  By the time you get to high school, it's too late.  Habits and attitudes regarding school are developed much earlier than that. The best first grade teacher in the world cannot be effective if those habits and attitudes are undermined at home.  There is certainly room for improvement on the institutional level, but how do you fix shitty parenting?  Abortion tax credits?

it's poverty

[CNS]

Poverty and Ed are chicken and egg. 

[Spracne]

yeah, to just say it's poverty is an oversimplification.  No doubt poverty is a contributing factor, but it's neither a cause nor an effect in itself. 

[michigancat]

Poverty and Ed are chicken and egg. 

yep

yeah, to just say it's poverty is an oversimplification.  No doubt poverty is a contributing factor, but it's neither a cause nor an effect in itself. 

it is definitely an oversimplication, but it is absolutely a cause and effect of poor education

[Spracne]

Poverty and Ed are chicken and egg. 

yep

yeah, to just say it's poverty is an oversimplification.  No doubt poverty is a contributing factor, but it's neither a cause nor an effect in itself. 

it is definitely an oversimplication, but it is absolutely a cause and effect of poor education

You're begging the question, tho.

[michigancat]

well, I also prefer to focus on schools in poor districts or poverty in general because it can easily be tracked and quantified - for example, you can look for correlations between things like college-readyness and graduation rates and income, and possibly understand methods that improve poor performing schools.

Your vague "shitty parenting" rant offers no opportunity for quantifiable problems or solutions.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

It sounds like we have a consensus that poverty should be disincentivized, and education incentivized. Hmm, how could we do that?????

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

It almost sounds like you guys aren't aware that poor people are generally really rough ridin' stupid.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

well, I also prefer to focus on schools in poor districts or poverty in general because it can easily be tracked and quantified - for example, you can look for correlations between things like college-readyness and graduation rates and income, and possibly understand methods that improve poor performing schools.

Your vague "shitty parenting" rant offers no opportunity for quantifiable problems or solutions.

Just because there are no "quantifiable problem or solution" to shitty parenting doesn't mean it isn't the real problem. It is. Sometimes you just have to use common sense. Or I suppose you could look at the number of single parent or no parent homes in the district.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

If you aren't certain that shitty parenting isn't the problem, I invite you to park your car in front of any head start or srs funded preschool and observe.