Make An Argument For Why oscar Weber Should Be The K-State MBB Coach ITT

[SdK]

Chum1 posts well.

[catzacker]

Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

If we're observing data, we should be reminded that one data point does make a trend.  Rather, in this instance, the 2nd place finish represents an anomaly when we look at all the data as a whole.  The trend is apparent.  Win at a consistent level with other players, lose (relatively speaking) at a consistent level with his own.

2003–04 Illinois 26–7 13–3 1st
2004–05 Illinois 37–2 15–1 1st
2005–06 Illinois 26–7 11–5 T–2nd
2006–07 Illinois 23–12 9–7 T–4th
2007–08 Illinois 16–19 5–13 T–9th 
2008–09 Illinois 24–10 11–7 T–2nd
2009–10 Illinois 21–15 10–8 5th
2010–11 Illinois 20–14 9–9 T–4th
2011–12 Illinois 17–15 6–12 9th 

2012–13 Kansas State 27–8 14–4 T–1st
2013–14 Kansas State 20–13 10–8 5th


...but I apologize, my post wasn't really what this thread was for.

Without exception, all coaches have ups and downs. Sitting around and waiting for a down season to say, "See, this coach sucks!" is utterly meaningless. The part about winning with another coach's players is some superfluous narrative that has nothing whatsoever to do with data in this case.

he won at a high level (1st, 1st, 2nd, ....4th) with a roster that wasn't his.  He couldn't/hasn't recreated that 3-4yr period....ever.  He won with a roster that was not his at a high level (1st) and then it looks like the next 2 years he won't recreate that.  But I guess we can wait around for his 2nd place finish in 3years.

[catzacker]

But to be honest, maybe his record is what our program is.  Ouch.  That's a tough one to type/admit.

[Dugout DickStone]

Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

I don't get this, many said he would begin losing at this point, and he is.  Badly.  Are you saying the numbers don't show this and that prediction is just playing out due to pure chance?

[Pete]

Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

If we're observing data, we should be reminded that one data point does make a trend.  Rather, in this instance, the 2nd place finish represents an anomaly when we look at all the data as a whole.  The trend is apparent.  Win at a consistent level with other players, lose (relatively speaking) at a consistent level with his own.

2003–04 Illinois 26–7 13–3 1st
2004–05 Illinois 37–2 15–1 1st
2005–06 Illinois 26–7 11–5 T–2nd
2006–07 Illinois 23–12 9–7 T–4th
2007–08 Illinois 16–19 5–13 T–9th 
2008–09 Illinois 24–10 11–7 T–2nd
2009–10 Illinois 21–15 10–8 5th
2010–11 Illinois 20–14 9–9 T–4th
2011–12 Illinois 17–15 6–12 9th 

2012–13 Kansas State 27–8 14–4 T–1st
2013–14 Kansas State 20–13 10–8 5th


...but I apologize, my post wasn't really what this thread was for.

Without exception, all coaches have ups and downs. Sitting around and waiting for a down season to say, "See, this coach sucks!" is utterly meaningless. The part about winning with another coach's players is some superfluous narrative that has nothing whatsoever to do with data in this case.

What the eff are you talking about? 

[Pete]

Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

I don't get this, many said he would begin losing at this point, and he is.  Badly.  Are you saying the numbers don't show this and that prediction is just playing out due to pure chance?

That must be what Chum is saying.  I mean, we said a thing, and then that thing happened, really no confusion there.    I guess he thinks oscar Weber did well at Illinois because of his fluke good 2nd place season, wedged in with his bad seasons.  That would differ from what I believe and almost every Illinois fan in the world, but free country.

[Steffy08]

I know this isn't really the thread for it, but what I saw yesterday was not an effort issue.

It's like our offensive engine is out of gas, the output has fallen off a cliff, and this team from my observation has some attitudinal problems and from my observation they begin with Marcus Foster.   But it's the guy running the show's job to get that straightened out, so that's why Brucescuses fall on deaf ears. 

Also, oscar needs to sit the rough ridin down and quit micro-managing every freaking second of the game, I personally think that's part of the problem right there.   

Agree 100%.

There have been times when effort was the problem, but not yesterday.

Foster's attitude has been bad all year.  But that is Weber's problem/fault.  I'm glad he benched Foster yesterday, but I doubt that will result in any change.

[ChiComCat]

Weber is about to overcome so much adversity you guys, just you wait and see.  He is just letting it pile up so he can put you dumbasses in your place

[Pete]

In the spirit of the original intent of this thread, I'd say that you can't just fire a guy for being an incredible awkward doltish man that makes you cringe with every breath he takes.  It's about performance. 

[Steffy08]

Which, by the way, is why I hate all of the "we knew this would happen" posts. That's just bullshit.

I don't get this, many said he would begin losing at this point, and he is.  Badly.  Are you saying the numbers don't show this and that prediction is just playing out due to pure chance?

That must be what Chum is saying.  I mean, we said a thing, and then that thing happened, really no confusion there.    I guess he thinks oscar Weber did well at Illinois because of his fluke good 2nd place season, wedged in with his bad seasons.  That would differ from what I believe and almost every Illinois fan in the world, but free country.

This conversation is premature, but I would like to chime in and note that 11-7 is a good, but not great, conference record.  The fact that it was good for second doesn't make it thàt much better.

[michigancat]

Another reason: we hired him and really had a pretty good idea of what we were getting into. He had several seasons comparable to this at Illinois. While I didn't exactly expect this particular season to go this way, I'm not surprised, either. Basically, this is what we signed up for, so why not just ride it out as long as possible?

[Pete]

Another reason: we hired him and really had a pretty good idea of what we were getting into. He had several seasons comparable to this at Illinois. While I didn't exactly expect this particular season to go this way, I'm not surprised, either. Basically, this is what we signed up for, so why not just ride it out as long as possible?

Oh that's a good one too. 

[chum1]

This is the essence of what I'm saying.

Things supported by data: oscar trends downward at Illinois. Things not supported by data, but by conjecture or gut feeling or whatever: oscar trends downward at Kansas State.

Just because I guess the correct lottery numbers doesn't rough ridin' mean that I had a reliable method for doing so even if I believe that I did.

[Mr Bread]

oh chum1

[ksupamplemousse]

Yes, predicting someone to have relatively similar results as they did in their last job is basically like playing your kid's birthday numbers in the lotto. Makes sense 

[chum1]

I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.

[Dugout DickStone]

This is the essence of what I'm saying.

Things supported by data: oscar trends downward at Illinois. Things not supported by data, but by conjecture or gut feeling or whatever: oscar trends downward at Kansas State.

Just because I guess the correct lottery numbers doesn't rough ridin' mean that I had a reliable method for doing so even if I believe that I did.

Wait, what?

oscar is trending down big time at Kstate

[CHONGS]

I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.

You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

[chum1]

This is the essence of what I'm saying.

Things supported by data: oscar trends downward at Illinois. Things not supported by data, but by conjecture or gut feeling or whatever: oscar trends downward at Kansas State.

Just because I guess the correct lottery numbers doesn't rough ridin' mean that I had a reliable method for doing so even if I believe that I did.

Wait, what?

oscar is trending down big time at Kstate

If, IF, at the end of his career, he has trended downward, it wouldn't have been supported by data!

[chum1]

I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.

You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

I was hoping you might come! Yeah, I think three is always a good rule of thumb number.

[ChiComCat]

2013/14: Adversity is to oscar overcoming it
2014/15: A shitload of adversity is to oscar overcoming it by a shitload.

He is about to win out this season

[CHONGS]

I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.

You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

I was hoping you might come! Yeah, I think three is always a good rule of thumb number.

If (and it is a big if), this season continues at it currently has then at the end of the year I think there is a trend of getting worse.  Would you agree with that?

[chum1]

I'd love for someone to explain to me how a downward trend at Kansas State is supported by data.

You make a valid point.

How many data points would you think are needed?  I agree that two is too little, but three might be enough to give the sense of a trend (if the trend is mostly linear).

I was hoping you might come! Yeah, I think three is always a good rule of thumb number.

If (and it is a big if), this season continues at it currently has then at the end of the year I think there is a trend of getting worse.  Would you agree with that?

Let's just say he finishes his time at Kansas State with a downward trend. Then, we have two downward trend per school data points: one from his time at Illinois and one from his time at Kansas State.

Why look at downward trend per school? Ask the "other coach's recruits" people.

[michigancat]

LOL

[Trim]

With all the construction and office displacement going on, do we even have a place for a firing presser with his nuclear family in tears offset from the podium?